Tupac03 - Aztecs in Space

[tupaclives]

Pre-Flight -

Things look good... just one thing...

Germany... it... it... it doesnt know monotheism!

WTH???? I have played so many games of vanilla now and I have never, ever, ever played a game where a scientific civ did NOT get Monotheism as their free tech. How did that happen? Thats downright bizarre... perhaps an interesting thing to note is that i rolled up this start on the same day I rolled up the one i posted in general discussion (where there were 2 aztecs and 2 zulus)

I'm now stumped it just throws you out when something you consider to be certain turns out not to be...

Anyway OUR empire looks fine but I want to start min research on mono. I hire a scientist in 'Thats-a-knife' (all that happens is it loses an already corrupted shield). Mapstat shows something scary... if we were to revolt to republic then at 10.0.0 we would be suffering -6GPT!! Lets not revolt yet, the production bonus would be offset by the horrifying gpt loss. lets wait till our gpt payment is up (or we get a few more markets) before revolting.

IBT - India asks us to leave, i say we will (should consider a ROP to allow our galley to explore past them). India starts the Great Wall

Turn 1 - New Boston: Cat --> cat, Cairns: Temple --> market
Found Nhullunbuy (pronounced 'null-en-boy) on the former site of Down-Under-Slumber, set to walls. 1 settler headed for the gap between Rubbyvale and Bonn, the other fortifies in Cairns. Move troops around, use jags for mp duty back home n spears for mp duty on the front, also put swords and cats in cities on the front. 61gp gets us an embassy with India, Delhi is size 7 has 4 spears defending it, a temple, courthouse, granary and will complete the Great Wall in 8 turns. Oh and it also has 2 clowns hired..
45gp gets us RoP with India so we can head past their west coast.

IBT - Thebes completes Great Wall. Geez, Egypt's doing well wherever they are...

Turn 2 - Gems will be online in 4, think again about the settler in cairns and send him up to Nhullunbuy. There is a german galley in our waters but the best we can get is 'Leave now!' so cant start the war yet. You know whats interesting? Germany dont have iron hooked up...

IBT - Germany starts Sun Tzu's

Turn 3 - We have a nice 'ol stack in Nhullunbuy. Our rubbyvale-cairns line should be able to hold as well.

IBT - zzzz

Turn 4 - Rubyvale: Cat-->cat, Townsville: Worker-->cat. Ask germany to leave, they say they will. Worker moves... zzz

IBT - zzz

Turn 5 - Broome: Cat-->cat
Found Rockhampton. zzzz

IBT - Germany starts Leos, gems come online

Turn 6 - Just buildup and worker moves

IBT - zzzzzz

Turn 7 - Canberra: duct --> market

IBT - zzzzzz

Turn 8 - cant even demand germany leave this turn (nothing in our territory), New Boston: cat --> rax, Alice Springs: Worker --> Worker.
Send our galley into the ocean off the Indian west coast... spy green borders, check F10 and its Greece... so long as he survives the interturn we'll make contact...

IBT - Watch german guys move... sit and pray... and... the... galley... does.. NOT SINK!!!!!!

Turn 9 - Melbourne: Market --> Sword (gets culture expansion as well). Sail our galley calmly into Greek waters (reaches the coast so can keep exploring!) and not only do we make contact with greece... we sail alongside an egyptian galley!

Dial up both. Greeks are up Monarchy, feudalism and Monotheism (aha, at least 1 scientific civ got the correct tech!), Egypt is up Monarchy. Both have contact with the iroquois.

Greece wont sell Monotheism but will sell Feudalism for 160gp + WM + contact with India, i decide to withhold the trade as i'd rather not give up contacts yet. Germany wonts 16gpt, 314gp, world map + contact with greece for the same tech... pffft! yeh right!

The other reason i dont want to buy feudalism from greece is the best trade we could then swing with it would be for monarchy. Ideally Iroquois get monotheism very soon, egypt picks it up from the great library, we find iroquois (so we are buying at 4th civ) then buy mono, sell it to Germany at monopoly for (hopefully) engineering, then sell engineering to greece or whoever for feudalism. then sell feudalism to india or france who have hopefully picked up monarchy. That would be the ideal sequence of events but what are the odds of that?

Not much else I can do this turn, I decide against establishing embassies straight away.

IBT - Greece asks us to leave... ill see if i can meet an iroquois in the next turn before automatically buying RoP with Greece. Also look at trading and we can BUY contact with iroquois for just 50gp.

Turn 10 - Not much really, our galley sails northward but finds more greek. I pass a fair few egyptian galleys... i think they could be at war. Oh well, heres the end of my turnset.

Notes: We know all civs but iroquois, no1 else no each other save greece n egypt, and Germany-France. So we are in a great trading position. i'm sure Andronicus will be able to best exploit that advantage

Might be worht checking now what sort of state our economy would be in if we changed to republic now as opposed to the start of my turn. probably not much better. Couldnt start the FP in Darwin because the courthouse received chops. An embassy with greece or egypt (whoevers cheaper) might be an idea to find out if they are in fact at war.
Keep an eye out for 2-fers and the like. Don't really have much more to add, didn't manage much military build up during my turn so if we want another war with germany it will need to be limited (maybe just grab bonn and say nuremburg then go for peace).

Good luck Andronicus!

Our land



The save

 

[Merlin]

Hooray for meeting the Greeks and Egyptians!!

We founded two new towns, so unit support costs dropped. I think we should switch to republic. More markets online soon too.

 

[tupaclives]

In vanilla Republic has no unit support so it doesnt matter if we have more towns other than for the commerce but they will be corrupt so they will only contribute 1 commerce anyway.

 

[Andronicus]

I dont have experience with vanilla but my query is would we still have residual WW from Germany if we went to war again - my understanding is it takes 20 turns to dissipate. Is WW continued from previous war if your rival dows on you?

 

[Andronicus]

I'm feeling a bit civved out from playing until 4am last night so I will probably wait till tomorrow morning to start play my turns and may not get to complete / post until Fri morning. Hope that time frame's OK.

 

[TimBentley]

lurker's comment: I think in vanilla scientific civs don't get monotheism 0.1% of the time or something like that.

 

[Andronicus]

Quiet builder set
Started building libs ? do we want these or ducts first?
Techs were horribly expensive, eventually bought mono from Greece and sold on to Egypt (despite they would have got it next turn from GLib), France & India netting Feudalism, Monarchy (FWIW) and a portion of our gpt outlay. Unfortunately Germany would not trade Engineering and learnt mono the turn before i could afford trade.
I revolted right away and gpt dropped from 21 to 18 but quickly improved up to over 50 when I did the trade.
With FP due shortly our finances will soon be in good shape
Unit costs are over 60 per turn but militarily we are thin if Germans attack
I hope France and Germany dont war as it would disrupt our ongoing ivory / furs deal and damage our rep

Pre turn
Revolt
IT
Become Republic

1) 170AD
Germans will not accept 37gpt + 361g + contacts(which I wont give) for engineering
Greece wont trade mono for all we own

IT
Germans have iron hooked up
IHC cat -> worker
Nhullumbuy walls -> cat

2) 190AD
Egypt now has Feud (charges 24gpt + 339), Greece 1gpt cheaper - I hold
Buy contact with Iroquois for 46g
Iroquois very backward - trade poly for WM + 25g
Now have Greece's WM and Egypt's TM

State of affairs in eastern hemisphere
Iroquois 2 cities northern end of east continent, no horses or iron, 1 lux
Egypt 11 cities on main continent (2 ex Iroquois) + 9 on islands, have horses, iron and 2 lux
Greece 8 cities south end eastern continent, have iron, horses 2 lux
Egypt are the runaway power over there

IT
Tarzana sword -> sword
Townsville cat -> market
Galley sunk in seas (Greek galleys were blocking my return to coast)

3) 210AD
zzz
IT
Melb sword -> sword

4) 230AD
zzz
IT
New B rax -> sword
Darwin court -> FP
Greece building Sistine

5) 250AD
zzz
IT
Renew fur - ivory deal with France
Renew peace treaty with Germany
Adelaide market -> lib
Rockhampton walls -> cat
6) 260AD
zzz
IT
Canberra market -> lib
Melbourne sword -> lib

7) 270AD
Est embassies
Germany - ST in 12, size 12 with 4 pikes and 3 clowns
Egypt - ST in 4, size 12, 2 clowns
not enough cash for Greek embassy
Iroquois - size 8 building wealth
IT
Cairnes market -> lib

8) 280AD
disband reg jags
mine some plains Canberra as has plenty of food
Embassy Greece - ST in 6, 4 clowns, 4 hops defending
IT
Brisbane market -> lib
Perth market -> lib
Germany have mono
Still cant afford trade

9) 290AD
Trade Greece 50gpt + 8g for mono
Trade Egypt mono for 11gpt, WM + 31g (all their gpt and cash)
Trade France mono for feudalism + WM
Trade India mono for WM, 9gpt, 30g + monarchy
Research set to chivalry single scientist (feel free to change as only 1 beaker used)
IT
Egypt build Sun Tzu's
Greece switches to Sistine

10) 300AD
zzz

And here I hand it on

 

[Andronicus]

A squiz at our little empire and a sneak preview of its efficiency once FP is built - note particuarly that towns aroud Darwin become very productive, esp improving corruption in IHC and Alice (thats why I started markets there)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac03_300AD.JPG

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac03_300ad_-_economy1.JPG

 

[CommandoBob]

Just have the map to go by; not the game.

Upgrade the spears to pikes?

Follow the libs and markets with a sword or two, then switch back to making the city better?

Settlers?

Need to keep a low profile and stay out of Germany's way.

 

[Andronicus]

Just have the map to go by; not the game.

Upgrade the spears to pikes?

Follow the libs and markets with a sword or two, then switch back to making the city better?

Settlers?

Need to keep a low profile and stay out of Germany's way.

I would prefer to avoid war with Germany until after completed main infrasructure esp FP.

Probably worth upgrading a few strategic units to place on front line duty with reserves held in a rax town ready to upgrade at first sign of trouble.

Settlers not really needed until we go on the offensive

Germany has LBs, I set research to cav for trading purposes primarily, but military advantage for whoever has knights is big too

 

[Andronicus]

Roster
tupaclives
Andronicus - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Merlin - ON DECK

 

[Merlin]

Solid turns Andronicus!

I also don't have the game to give comments, but still some comments: If we haven't sold our WM around, we might make some nice cash with it. Selling the maps doesn't sell contacts. And anyways, the other civs are going to meet sooner rather than later, so I'd get the benefits of selling the contacts before loosing the opportunity. Trying to find the optimal timing usually misses the opportunity.

I'm not sure about the libraries just yet. I don't think we can do real research anytime soon, so I'd rather save the upkeep. Markets near the FP, maybe temples and cheap caths for happiness, we don't have that much luxuries. Or prepare for war against the germans. We could ally with the French and hope to destroy Bonn and Frankfurt, settle 2 new cities and hold the line until peace and then get some conpensation. Pikes in walled cities on hills with cats should do well against swords.

 

[Andronicus]

If we haven't sold our WM around, we might make some nice cash with it. Selling the maps doesn't sell contacts. And anyways, the other civs are going to meet sooner rather than later, so I'd get the benefits of selling the contacts before loosing the opportunity. Trying to find the optimal timing usually misses the opportunity.

I think Egypt built GLH (they built most wonders). They would need to send suicide galley across ocean to make contact - when did AI last do that?
French - Indian contact is likely with astronomy, but requires traversing sea tiles before that. I think we are OK for time being. (crosses fingers )

I'm not sure about the libraries just yet. I don't think we can do real research anytime soon, so I'd rather save the upkeep. Markets near the FP, maybe temples and cheap caths for happiness, we don't have that much luxuries.

Suggest looking at civassist screenie I posted - shows a healthy extended core after Darwin builds FP. Most of our towns can be grown to full size with max infrastructure. I think the time we will need science is after magnetism and contacts prevent our middleman barterring. I would hope to have markets, banks, libs and at least some unis by then. This will require gradual infrastructure builds - at present are getting huge boost from markets, but lib benefit will be in future. The issue may be we cant build all of libs, banks and unis when we want them so building libs earlier may make sense. It wont hurt us culturally.

Or prepare for war against the germans. We could ally with the French and hope to destroy Bonn and Frankfurt, settle 2 new cities and hold the line until peace and then get some conpensation. Pikes in walled cities on hills with cats should do well against swords.

I admit to considerable indecision during my turn whether to provoke another war with Germans or not.
Concern was both effect on rep if trade route with France disrupted as well as defensive capability spears v LBs
Half a doz pikes strategically on mountains and walled towns on eastern front with non-upgraded spears in core ready to upgrade if troops landed behind lines makes sense to me.
I half-heartedly commenced min research on chivalry with view knights could be big in next German war - someone else will certainly research before us.
Agree swords and cats are still quite powerful when stacked properly
Waiting for astronomy to dow maintains our trade route

 

[CommandoBob]

I must ask for a skip on these turns.

I have spent all this Saturday working on my 30th high school reunion and playing my turns in SGOTM9. I had hoped to be done with both of these long before now, but that has not happened. Tomorrow is no better: church in the morning, high school planning meeting in the afternoon and church again in the evening.

The ten turns in SGOTM9 (Monarch level) took me 6 game hours, plus about two hours to get my log presentable, images tweaked and log posted. This game, at Diety, would have been even longer. So I must ask for the skip.

(And these looked like fun turns: building things and getting ready to make some German cities speak Aztec.)

 

[Andronicus]

Ammended Roster
tupaclives - ON DECK
Andronicus - just played
CommandoBob - skip
Merlin - UP

 

[Merlin]

OK, so I'm up. I got it and will probably play in a few hours.

I still think that we shouldn't build libreries atm. It's 80 shields and I'd rather have two swords and a cat instead of a library. If we have a war against the germans soon, we need the troops. We have so good trading opportunities now, that self research isn't worth it.

 

[Merlin]

Sorry I didn't post before, but my internet connection broke. My ISP was sold to a bigger company and there has been some difficulties. Yesterday I lost my connection for good. I played my turns, but couldn't post. So I had to bring the save and the turnlog to work on an USB-stick. Anyway, here are my turns:

I'm not going to keep the library builds. We are running 20% lux tax, we won't get new luxuries until Magnetism, so we cannot afford research. I rather build Caths for happiness. Those are cheap because we are religious.

Pre-flight check: Change Canberra->Cath, Bris->Pike, Perth->Duct, Melbourne->Duct, Cairns->Cath. We could get loads of cash for selling our WM, but I hold until tech trades.

IBT: German boat comes to our waters.

Turn 1 (310AD): I call Bismarck and complain about his troops -> they don't declare. I think mining the plains near Canberra was a mistake. Canberra doesn't need irrigation, but the cities south of it do. So I start the irrigation project again. We can mine them back after we have irrigation in the south.

IBT: The RoP with Gandhi ends.

Turn 2 (320AD): Broome cat->worker. Germans know chivalry, so they have knights. War probably not a good idea now. I sell TM to France for WM and 3gold. TM to Germans for their WM.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 3 (330AD): Canberra Cath->Pike, Tarzana sword->market. I sell the Iroquis Philo for WM and 2 gold.

IBT: Greece joined the Iroquis to fight Cleo. Iroquis won't last long.

Turn 4 (340AD): Rubyvale temple->rax.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 5 (350AD): Canberra pike->harbour, Brisbane pike->duct. Buy two workers from France for TM and 51gold.

IBT: zzzz

Turn 6 (360AD): We're not getting anywhere. Other continent is at war so their research is shut. Germany is running away, so I declare on them. Bomb troops near Bonn, kill all the horses and archers. One win gives us our first LEADER! Change Darwin to market, rush it (40g). Will use leader for FP next turn. (9-0)

IBT: Sword dies to LB (9-1).

Turn 7 (370AD): Melbourne duct->horse, Darwin market->FP, Broome riots, sorry. Put the lone scientist to Broome. Rush the FP, We will destroy Bonn next turn.

IBT: Lost a worker, because didn't see a horse under an archer. Germans complete Leo's at Berlin.

Turn 8 (380AD): Adelaide duct->temple, Darwin FP->duct, Broome worker->market. Only one cat hits defender in Bonn. eSword wins spear, eSword wins spear, eSword kills horse, eHorse kills LB -> no leaders. Bonn razed, found Bundaberg -> temple to get whales. Kill a horse near Cairns. Lux to 10%, New Boston gets a scientist. Our income jumps to 100gpt. (14-1)

IBT: German troops moving.

Turn 9 (390AD): Canberra harbour->sword, Nhullunbuy cat->cat, Rockhampton cat->barracks. Rush rax in Rubyvale for 48gold. See first German knight, redline it. Bomb other troops. Lose sword against spear, kill the redlined knight, kill LB. (16-2)

IBT: Germans get to Mt.Darwin again... I should not have moved the sword off it

Turn 10(400AD): Perth duct->temple, Melbourne horse->horse, Cairns cath->sword, Rubyvale barracks->cat. Bomb germans, kill a knight and 5 horses. Move a horse to pillage the german ONLY connected iron, hopefully it won't get attacked. (22-2)

Play one more turn, because last time I played nine and I want to see if I can pillage their iron.

IBT: OUR HORSE SURVIVES. He even kills two germans defending! Lose a jag that killed a horse last turn. Germans start to run towards the horse on iron. (24-3)

Turn 11(410AD): Adelaide temple->harbour. Pillage Germans iron. Bomb and kill 5 horses. Move troops to Mt.Darwin. WE HAVE TRADE OPPORTUNITIES!! (29-3)

The main reason for war was that the we were falling behind fast and Germany running away. We couldn't trade with the other continent, because they were warring. I'm hoping for a fast war with us getting a tech in peace. Or atleast a huge discount. Getting a leader and hurrying FP was a great bonus.

 

[Merlin]

And the save and some ideas.

As you can read from the log, I didn't build any libraries. We were running 20% luxtax, we can't buy new luxuries for a long time, our income was weak and our trading opportunities were great. I build markets and caths and was able to lower the luxtax. Now because of the FP and some payments ending, we're making over 100gpt.

I started a war against Germany, because we were falling behind. The other continent was warring and India by itself couldn't research. The only trading opportunities appeared on the last turn. I didn't trade, but the next player should.

Germany doesn't have iron now. So no knights, pikes or swords. they were mainly sending horses, archers and spears, so we arent in trouble. They didn't attack Rubyvale or Cairns, so I could shoot them with cats and kill when they're injured.

 

[Andronicus]

Gutsy dow - I think you made the right decision, but I was too timid
Looks like tupaclives will have a fun turnset

 

[tupaclives]

Haven't been able to check the save yet but from your log it sounds great! The leader on the first turn was terrific luck!
I guess this makes me up. As I go away for the holidays tomorrow I better get stuck in right away!