Tupac03 - Aztecs in Space

[Andronicus]

If the German archers near Boston stay in the mountains on this IBT

I suspect they will attack our wounded eSw - we could put a spear to protect it from 1 of the 2 protecting the cats, but then run risk of losing cats if they attack the remaining spear

Germany does not have iron connected (yet).

When they do things will be more difficult, but cats will allow us to attack them before they attack us

Looks like Rubyvale will be the focus of German attention

On last IT German HM passed between Rubyvale and Cairnes - I think they are going for our lightly defended interior (eg Darwin)

Need to clear out Bonn to reduce Germany to a one-axis threat (no pun intended). Due to the distances, it might be best to build towards Bonn. As we build towards Bonn, we also road to our new city, so once Bonn is gonn, those units can head east to the real German battle front.

Yes Bonn is first priority (other than dealing with German units in our territory)
On rethinking things I believe my W pink dot and W pale blue dots should both be moved 1NE. This makes W pale blue dot 3N of horses and only requires 1 more tile to be roaded then leads towards Boston

Need to consider a city on the hill NE and E of Rubyvale, close to Nuremburg. This city would need to be heavily defended (so of course I won’t build it! ) since it will be the focal point of German attacks for a long time. A walled city on a hill, with three or four vSpears, a couple of cats and the odd Archer or Sword, would be the final resting place of many fine German units.

Might be a bit premature planning an attack to the east - I was thinking raze Bonn, get techs and or money in peace deal, then fill in empty spaces whilst preparing for assault east in next phase of war

Build an embassy with the French Lady.

Townsville is working the cow, which needs roaded and then mined or irrigated, not sure which.

Irrigate - will lose extra shield in despot if mine and food boni are valuable

Be nice to get the gems connected. Nice, but not really worth the risk in wartime, considering where the gems are located (N of Rubyvale and on the German border.)

May not be a bad move if have spare worker and spear - just dont leave Rubyvale too thinly defended

We have citizens working 5 unimproved tiles; need to examine and see why.

Priorty IMO is irrigating plains tiles for our northern towns and clearing jungle to our south

We are on a 10% science run to Currency

Nothing to be gained increasing rate.

[

Boston is on Ring 3 from Canberra and is 69% corrupt. It is rank 10. Broome and Rubyvale are even further from Canberra and have worse corruption.

These towns will be much more productive after FP and courts. Currently I wouldnt waste too much worker moves or infrastructure builds on them.

We can try to keep a Ring 3, but it may not be worth the effort.

Yea thats my feeling too where optimal placement is slightly further away

Need to build Swords and Horsies to fight the Krauties

I would consider upgrading any vet Jags - elites leave for leader opportunities, and regs for MP duty. We have very few swords and this would give a quick boost

Set Boston to zero growth, build settler, abandon city and rebuild one tile south of present location. Takes 22 turns. Could keep zero growth and build two slave workers instead, would take 12 turns.

I like tupaclives' plan, esp with shifting Boston to 2spt immediately allowing whipping next turn

Settle the pink dots (RCP of 10) north of Boston.

Not sure if others will agree, but I like your idea of speeding towards Boston, so I suggest settle

1) W pale blue dot - but 1NE of where I put on dotmap (send settler currently on red dot there could arrive in 3 turns depending on what German archer stack does)
2) Red dot once Boston abandoned
3) W pink dot - also 1NE of dot map placement
4) E pink dot

 

[TimBentley]

lurker's comment: Boston has to be size 2 to produce a settler.

 

[tupaclives]

Boston IS size 2

 

[CommandoBob]

If the German archers near Boston stay in the mountains on this IBT

I suspect they will attack our wounded eSw - we could put a spear to protect it from 1 of the 2 protecting the cats, but then run risk of losing cats if they attack the remaining spear

We can grow more elite units; this unit will have to take its chances.

Looks like Rubyvale will be the focus of German attention

On last IT German HM passed between Rubyvale and Cairnes - I think they are going for our lightly defended interior (eg Darwin)

Send the swords south of Boston to Darwin?
Once the horses are gone, we could use an undefended Darwin as bait for German foot soldiers.
Should we put any units on Mount Darwin?

Townsville is working the cow, which needs roaded and then mined or irrigated, not sure which.

Irrigate - will lose extra shield in despot if mine and food boni are valuable

Irrigation it shall be.

Need to build Swords and Horsies to fight the Krauties

I would consider upgrading any vet Jags - elites leave for leader opportunities, and regs for MP duty. We have very few swords and this would give a quick boost

Will be done.

Not sure if others will agree, but I like your idea of speeding towards Boston, so I suggest settle

1) W pale blue dot - but 1NE of where I put on dot map (send settler currently on red dot there could arrive in 3 turns depending on what German archer stack does)
2) Red dot once Boston abandoned
3) W pink dot - also 1NE of dot map placement
4) E pink dot

Recreated the dot map to make sure we were talking about the same dots. Used blocks to indicate the new city sites. The order of the founding is on the left side of the picture.
Boston North 0350 BC

 

[TimBentley]

Boston IS size 2

Not if you whip it.

 

[CommandoBob]

Not if you whip it.

So if we whip Boston to try to make a settler, what happens?

It seems that we could lose the population and make an expensive worker.

It also seems possible that the game would not allow the whipping to happen.

I do not do a lot of whipping, so the theory and how-to are not things I can talk about with reasonable certainty.

 

[tupaclives]

Boston only has to be size 2 in order to BE whipped, as it is being abandoned the creation of the settler will give you the options 'zoom to city, delay production, abandon city' we select abandon city and the settler is produced in place of the city. Trust me, it works. I've done it many times. If you dont believe it works then look at 'Sid Vicious and the Magnificent 7+1' on the subject of moving Lahore early in the game. Believe me, if it is under size 3 and not growing then it will be abandoned and the settler created. It only has to be size 2 in order to receive the whip.

 

[Andronicus]

So if we whip Boston to try to make a settler, what happens?

It seems that we could lose the population and make an expensive worker.

It also seems possible that the game would not allow the whipping to happen.

I do not do a lot of whipping, so the theory and how-to are not things I can talk about with reasonable certainty.

Just did a simple test
Started random game - built city until size 2 with 10 shields in box -> whipped settler -> size 1, hired a clown to prevent growth, press enter and hey presto - given option of abandoning town and get a settler

so it does work
(I admit I was sceptical because it doesnt feel right to abandon a town which is size 1 and get a settler when it would take 2 pop to build)

 

[Andronicus]

Send the swords south of Boston to Darwin?
Once the horses are gone, we could use an undefended Darwin as bait for German foot soldiers.
Should we put any units on Mount Darwin?

Seems reasonable, might want a few swords near Cairnes. Once a force is assembled (prob just 3 swords to add to the cats) they can go get Bonn.
If we dont occupy the mount Germany will, from there horses can attack Darwin.

Recreated the dot map to make sure we were talking about the same dots. Used blocks to indicate the new city sites. The order of the founding is on the left side of the picture.

I agree with this other than resettle new Boston site as soon as settler produced, making red dot the number 2 (will probably settle before current settler reaches pale blue square

 

[tupaclives]

hey presto - given option of abandoning town and get a settler

so it does work

But you never doubted me right?

 

[Andronicus]

But you never doubted me right?

Ummm....

 

[TimBentley]

(I admit I was sceptical because it doesnt feel right to abandon a town which is size 1 and get a settler when it would take 2 pop to build)

lurker's comment: That was my reasoning as well. I guess that's what comes from assuming something relating to something I don't remember the last time I've done.

 

[Merlin]

About the FP. We should build it ASAP. In many games I have made the mistake of waiting for the perfect place for it, and then getting too little value for it. The sooner we build it, the more benefits we'll get.

I'd suggest putting the FP to Darwin. It's in a central position to our cities and we can move the palace to some (conquered)German city later on to get a better second core. Canberra is on a quite small peninsula to get a proper core around it.

If we get a leader from the war with Germany, I'd rush the FP with it. If no better wonder is available. Otherwise we could make peace soon, connect the gems, fill the lands according to the dotmap and build new workers to make the lands productive.

 

[Andronicus]

Dont have save in front of me, but IIRC Darwin is only pulling 2spt at present, poss 3. Is it worth waiting for CoL for court first then more efficient build of FP?
My preferred site for FP if we get a leader is in Berlin, or that could be new palace site and FP in in Darwin would still seem reasonable
There are no wonders available to us so only other use is to build an army.

 

[CommandoBob]

About the FP...I'd suggest putting the FP to Darwin.

Does the FP in Vanilla have the same odd corruption quirk as it does in PTW? That is, if a city is closer to the FP than the capital, it gets Rank 1 corruption. (I think I got that right). Which means that RCP is not a factor for cities around the FP. RCP still is a factor for the capital, but it is not a great factor for the FP.

 

[Andronicus]

Does the FP in Vanilla have the same odd corruption quirk as it does in PTW? That is, if a city is closer to the FP than the capital, it gets Rank 1 corruption. (I think I got that right). Which means that RCP is not a factor for cities around the FP. RCP still is a factor for the capital, but it is not a great factor for the FP.

I'm not sure you've got it right.
It is the same as in PTW according to Qitai's war accademy article, but if I understand correctly it should be expressed as any city closer to the FP than than 1st ring towns to palace (ie RCP4 in our case) will have rank 1 corruption.
This becomes more powerful if 1st ring were RCP7 for example and is an obvious exploit if there are no towns near the palace (eg nearest 20 tiles away). Wide RCP spacing around palace and close spacing (ignoring RCP) around FP maximises corruption benefit.
I hope that's close to the mark

 

[tupaclives]

Yep Andronicus is right. However I believe I mentioned in hoiuse rules that the rank corruption exploit (ie. stickign the palace in the middle of nowhere to maximise FP effictivness) is prohibited.

 

[CommandoBob]

Disclaimer
These turns took so long to play because my son was in from Kentucky for Spring Break. He did not bring his PC, so we had one computer for the three of us all week long, in addition to family events. I misjudged the time to play.

I have only played five turns. I plan to play again this evening, rather late. If I am not able to play by the morning, I will ask for a skip on the remaining turns.

The Game
End of Previous Turnset Stats:

Science: Currency, 5 turns
Treasury: 87 gold, +20 gpt, 9.1.0
Cities:

1. Canberra (5) grows in 2, settler in 2
2. Brisbane (3) grows in 3, vSword in 3
3. Boston (2) grows in 7, settler in 22 (city to be abandoned)
4. Perth (4) grows in 10, vHorse in 5
5. Melbourne (4) grows in 18, vHorse in 4
6. Adelaide (4) grows in 7, vHorse in 2
7. Thats-A-Knife (1) grows in 19, catapult in 19
8. Tarzana (1) grows in 6, vSword in 28
9. Cairns (3) grows in 4, vSword in 9
10. Rubyvale (2) grows in 10, catapult in 19
11. Townsville (2) grows in 10, catapult in 10
12. Darwin (1) grows in 7, walls in 7
13. Bromme (1) grows in 10, worker in 10

Military:

• settlers 001, 002 in production
• workers 014, 001 in production
• archers 006, 000 in production
• spears 008, 000 in production
• swords 004, 003 in production
• horses 001, 003 in production
• catapult 008, 003 in production
• jags 012, 000 in production

Build List:

• settler [2] (Canberra and Boston)
• vSword [3] (Brisbane, Tarzana and Cairns)
• vHorse [3] (Perth, Melbourne and Adelaide)
• catapult [3] (Thats-A-Knife, Rubyvale and Townsville)
• walls [1] (Darwin)
• worker [1] (Broome)

Allowed units 52; current units 54

[IBT 0350 BC]
Wake vJag in TAK; send to Melbourne to upgrade (no rax in TAK)
Wake vJag in Melbourne; send to Brisbane (unit shuffle).
Embassy with France, 52 gold.

Hit enter
eSword dies and promotes the attacking archer to elite. (0 of 1)
Remaining units move towards Boston.
German units move west and appear to be bypassing Rubyvale and Cairns.
Both cities have more units than attackers, so not worried just yet.

Battle Map 330 BC (Start of Turn)

01 0330 BC

Trading
France has Map Making. Wants WM, 16 gold (all) and 15 gpt (of 21 gpt).
This deal means no more upgrades of jags to swords for eight turns.
Pass.
Other
Upgrade vJag in Brisbane, 40 gold.
2 vSwords move into Darwin.
Move catapult stack and defenders SW onto road 2N of Boston.
Move catapult into Boston from the south.
Wake worker SE of Boston, move away from Germans.
Catapult in Rubyvale hurts a horse.

​

[IBT]
Just promoted German eArcher heads towards Bonn.
2 German archers die attacking Boston. (2 of 3)
We lose 1 archer in Darwin, both attacking horses wounded, 3/4 and 1/4. (3 of 5)
No attacks on Rubyvale or Cairns.
Rubyvale wounded horse heads east.

Canberra settler -> settler, 4 turns.
Adelaide vHorse -> vHorse, 5 turns.

02 0310 BC

Trading
Other
Catapult in Rubyvale hurts a horse.
Catapult in Cairns misses.
Perth is cranky, buy a clown. Horse in 4, not 3.

Battle of Darwin
vSword vs. vHorse 3/4, vHorse retreats at 1/4. (4 of 6)
vSword vs. vHorse 1/4, vSword wins flawlessly and promotes (5 of 7).
vHorse from Darwin moves N.
vHorse vs. vHorse 1/4, green beats blue, taking one hit point. (6 of 8)
One 3/4 vSword in Darwin.

Battle of Boston
One catapult hits the fortified rArcher in the forest, other one misses.
vArcher vs. rArcher 2/3, green beats blue, taking one hit point. (7 of 9)
After battle, whip Boston to make settler; set at zero growth.

Move settler 3N to join catapult stack. City site in 1N from here.
Send new vHorse from Adelaide towards Brisbane.
Move eSword from Boston to be 1SW of Darwin.

Darwin is bait for the Germans. For now. The new cities that inch toward Bonn will soon be the focus of German attention, allowing us to pick off units on the way (I hope).

​

[IBT]
German boat land a horse near Broome, currently undefended.
No German attacks.
General German movement westward, slipping past Rubyvale.

Brisbane, vSword -> vSword, 5 turns.
Boston abandoned.

03 0290 BC

Trading
France will sell Map Making for 57 gold (all) and 13 gpt, about 320 gold total.
Nope.

Other
Whipped settler founds New Boston; grows in 7, jag in 10.
We lost the iron when we abandoned Boston, New Boston does not reach to the iron.
Send archer and Jag from old Boston to Broome.
Rubyvale catapult misses.
Move settler, catapults and defenders 1N to city site.

Battle of Darwin, Round 2
vSword 3/4 (in Darwin) vs. rSpear, vSword is redlined but wins. (8 of 10)
eSword vs. rArcher, eSword wins flawlessly, but does not promote. (9 of 11)

vHorse moves back to Darwin.
Wake vSpear in Townsville to protect worker NW of town from German horse.
Move an eSword and the new vHorse towards New Boston, heading north from there.


​

[IBT]
German horse attacks vHorse in Darwin, German wins. (9 of 12)
German horse attacks vJag in Broome, vJag wins. (10 of 13)
German horse attacks wounded vArcher on Mt. Boston and wins. (10 of 14)
German forces appear headed to Darwin.

Melbourne vHorse -> vSpear, 4 turns.
We also lost horses when we abandoned Boston.

04 0270 BC

Trading
Other
Rubyvale catapult misses.
Cairns catapult misses.

Battle of Darwin Round 3
Darwin is defended by 1 vSword 1/4, so it is the city the Germans want to attack.
Four German units (2 rArchers and 2 rHorses) could attack Darwin next turn.
Move two swords into Darwin; wake vJag in Townsville and send to Darwin and fortify it.
Darwin can be attacked, but all four Germans attacks must succeed to capture the city.

Move rSpear back to Townsville.
Move new vHorse from Melbourne to Brisbane.

Could move settler in New Boston to pink square, along with some defenders. However, this leaves New Boston open to attack. Will wait.
From New Boston, settler can reach pink square in one turn, build city the following turn.


​

[IBT]
Archer attacks our new city stack by Bonn, promotes our spear to Elite. (11 of 15)
Archer attacks eSword in Darwin and losses, eSword 3/5. (12 of 16)
Archer attacks vSword in Darwin and losses, vSword 3/4. (13 of 17)
Horse attacks eSword in Darwin and retreats, eSword at 1/5. (14 of 18)
Horse attacks vSword 1/4 in Darwin and wins. (14 of 19)

After movement, 4 good units can attack Darwin, aided by 2 wounded horses.
4 horses are due north of Cairns.


We learn Currency; begin Code of Laws, 40 turns.
Canberra settler -> settler, 5 turns.
French are building the Great Wall.
French have learned Construction.

05 0250 BC

Trading
Other
At the pale blue box, found Down Under Slumber; grows in 10, rSpear in 20.
Fortify all units in Down Under Slumber (spear, archer and 3 cats).

Move settler to pink square, no Germans around.
Move vJag from Broome to pink square.

Catapult in Cairns hits a horse next to Darwin.
Move vHorse to Darwin and fortify.

​

[IBT]

And the save is >>Here<<.

 

[CommandoBob]

Oops!

One thing we did not consider is that when we abandoned Boston we also lost two strategic resources; iron and horses.

We can get them back, horses quickly, iron not so quickly. The next city built will give us back horses. To get iron we need either a colony or culture expansion. Colony is the quick fix, but is it the best. We might be able to whip a temple and get the iron that way. Have not investigated, just an idea.

Battle Map 250 BC (End of Turn):

Techs
We can trade currency to Joan for either Map Making or Construction; did not try to force a two-fer on her. At this level, not sure which is the better choice.

We just learned Currency, and have no beakers invested in Code of Law. Is this the tech to learn next?

The German War
Darwin has been the target of almost all German attacks. This seems likely to continue. Down Under Slumber may become the main target since it is isolated and close to Bonn. Hope it does become the main target, will give Darwin a chance to grow and units time to heal and move to DUS. Our next city, ready to be built, could also be a target of Germany, since it will only be defended (briefly) with only a vJag.

 

[tupaclives]

Very good turnset CommandoBob! I'm not much of a time nazi so dont stress if the turns arent finished by the morn

As for the iron, we dont need a colony. When we settle the pink dot you will notice there would only be 1 tile unclaimed between it and the culture of the city southwest of it. As that is the case the game will automatically fill in the one tile difference with our borders. Just found the city and we get iron back.