Tupac05 - A Classic Replayed

[tupaclives]

Markh! Welcome back into the fold! I was hoping a veteran of one of my past games would join, its good to be playing with you again!

@tribute: No, i don't know what you're thinking of... first of all the actual variant is Tactless and Defiant (with alterations), the name of our sample game was silence is golden because you werent really meant to be talking to the AI. I can't recall any game that played the variant you described.

 

[Tribute]

*me smiles evilly*

 

[Vind2]

Roster so far?

 

[tupaclives]

Well as it stands here is the roster (not the playing order0

tupaclives
JJJSpider
vind2
Empiremaker
and Markh

Thats easilyenough for us to make a start so I think we just need to sort out a few details before I roll up the starts. As this is vanilla not Conquests we cant be Sumeria (as the original game was) so who do we want to play as? Having never tried this variant I think someone with solid military abilities (industrious or militaristic) and research capabilities would probably be our best bet. I'd be looking at Germany or Persia as my preference. Also what do people want with regards difficulty. Obviously i'm in favour of deity but if the rest of you are less keen on that then i'm perfectly happy to play it at emporor. Do we want a random world (standard size though)? or do we want to be a bit picky? random opponents and barbs is a given however.

 

[Vind2]

Random Land Mass= Yes
I'm comfortable on Emperor but Diety would be a challange. I guess china would fit into that discription. I would chose Persia. Immortals=beast.

 

[JJJSpider]

Maps completely random is cool.
Difficulty: I comfortable with Emperor. I am also fine with Deity but I never play on that level. If we go with Deity I will ask to be later in the rotation.

I see both Civs mentioned are Scientific.
Oh how I love that industrious trait, cities up and running so much quicker.
So Persia is great for that. Plus the immortal does rock for about two ages.
However, there is something about cheaper Barracks and a much later GA with Germany that seems much more appealing to me.
So I will Vote Germany.

Since, I really do think this Variant will ultimately end up like an AW Scenario. Until the Ai thinks it wants Peace since we can’t pursue it ourselves and then only when we are being paid. Some Insanely long wars are in the future so Monarchy I think is the government to shoot for.

 

[Empiremaker]

I'd take Perisa as well. Immortals= insanely powerful (But in Vanilla lack upgrades) , and science will be needed and Industrious in vanilla- enough said

Other choices (ranked in order)
China- IND and MIL, Great UU, good timing.
Japan-1 turn anarchy and Mil so that we can easily swith between Republic and Monarchy. Samurai is a great UU with good timing
Germany-UU comes too late, and SCI is only above average
Egypt-IND is way OP and REL is nice (See Japan)
Bablyon- Weak UU, but SCI and REL, traits 2 and 3 in my mind for Vanilla.
Rome- Starts with alpha, MIL and great UU
Iroquois- For the UU- But an Arch map would be bad.


For the map I would prefer:
Size: Small or Standard (Large would work, but I don't prefer it)
Barbs: Random
Land: Random
Terrian: Random
Rivals: Random
Our Civ: Persia
Difficulty: Emperor

I think our strategy should be to treat it as a delayed always war, and if were REL, we could get GL; research up to Republic, revolt, and when we go to war switch to Monarchy.

Tupac: Can I have last in the roster? I want/need time to get patches, and I won't get Civ until Wednesday .

 

[tupaclives]

We've got 3 votes for emperor and random map, 1 vote for germany and 2 for persia. I'll wait to see what Markh has to say before I make any final decisions, although it appears that Emperor and random are now givens.
The immortal is an awesome UU, Industrious is massively overpowered and cheaper libraries will be of great help in a game like this... however having said that the later GA really appeals to me. And Germany (along with Rome) is probably my favourite civ, even though they aren't especially powerful they have a certain mystique for me.

My vote ofr the world and difficulty is moot by now so I'll leave that

So we have, all random opponents, barbs, landmass. Emperor difficulty.

and for the civs we've got
2 votes Persia
2 votes Germany

so I'm going to have to ask Markh to pick one of the two and break the deadlock for us. Then I'll work out the play order and we'll get started

 

[markh]

Uh, I have to decide. I haven't played Germany for a long time, so I vote for good ol' Bismarck.

 

[tupaclives]

Ok beautiful...

names in the hat....

playing order is...

markh...

vind2...

tupaclives...

JJJSpider...

with empiremaker slotting in last as per his request.

Playing order

Markh - up (40 turns)
vind2 - on deck (to play 20)
tupaclives
JJJSpider
empiremaker

Does anyone have a problem with the roster order? If there is could you let us know before we get started if possible?

Standard Size
Random Landmass
Random Barbs
Germany
7 Random Opponents
Emperor...

omg... no-one will believe this was the first start rolled...

Is everyone ok with that, or would you prefer me to roll up a different start?

If you want to get started here's the save.

 

[markh]

That is a nice one.

I can start it. No problem with that. If no one objects I can take it tonight in about 10 hours from now.

I would move the settler 1 NE to avoid wasting the BG he is standing on.

 

[tupaclives]

Go right ahead and start when you want, remember, you have 40 turns so you should be able to make decent use of the start.

I would agree with 1NE with the settler, that way we don't get landlocked. I'd move the worker straight to the grassland cow and irrigate, starting Berlin on Wealth --> Worker means we'll get a 5 turn worker (wealth for 1 turn so that the food supply is right) and with two workers this early we should be able to get a 4-turner up no worries.

Of course that's just me, and I'm not the one starting the game

go get 'em Markh! It'll be just like Tupac02

 

[markh]

That would be nice, but we cannot irrigate the grass land cow as it is not on the river. I will check the save during my lunchbreak and see how I can get it started in the evening.

 

[JJJSpider]

100 Starts and there is no way I get a location like that.
I am slightly confused about a NE Movement wouldn't that take us away from the Grassland Cow or am I just looking at it wrong??

 

[markh]

It would take us away for ten turns. Then we have expansion from our palace and Berlin has it. We need to get irrigation there anywhere, so it is not a big deal I think.

 

[tupaclives]

woops I meant move 1NW...

 

[markh]

I would still prefer 1NE as there is something 1SE of the plains cow. Looks like sugar or something. To the NW is too much jungle for my taste. Jungle in Germany ?

 

[tupaclives]

True the jungle does look nasty, but I don't see anything south of the plains cow, when I look at the picture. I could be wrong though. Also sugar isn't in vanilla

I still think that 1NW is the best, because you don't need to irrigate any grasslands to be able to irrigate the grassland cow, which saves 4 worker turns, it also lets us pop a second worker really early which would, in the long term, reduce worker turns even more. Coupled with the fact that culture growth would occur right as we went to size 2 (assuming we had first skimmed off a 5-turn worker) means we would be working +4fpt and 4spt at size 2, which means 3-turn warriors for scouting and MP.

Of course all this is just suggestions, as I said before you're the one with the agony of choice

 

[markh]

True the jungle does look nasty, but I don't see anything south of the plains cow, when I look at the picture. I could be wrong though. Also sugar isn't in vanilla

Damn, it is too much for my old brain to keep in mind the differences from vanilla, C3C and CIV. Looked like sugar. Most likely it is just the coast.

Hard to choose where to settle. I am still unsure. Maybe I flip the cap of the beer I will open before playing. NW if the cap lands on the right side or NE if it lands on the wrong side.
First I have to decide which civ and now I have to decide where to settle. Man, what a morning.

 

[Empiremaker]

First I'd move the worker to the plains cow, and see what the water is. If the water is coast, move the settler 2SE, so we get 2 cows, river and coast, and no Jungle.

Looking at 2SE I think that's Insence, and with river commerce, it should give us 3 commerce in the city square.

If the water's lake, Id move NE.

Irrigate both cows and we have, um... 1 + 2 + 2 =5

Four Turn Settler Factory

So lets go get pottery.

One question, should we ggo for the GL?