Tupac08 - Simply Sid
- Thread starter tupaclives
- Start date
tupaclives
Tupac Lives on!!
Consider this a 'got it'. I have an exam this afternoon so I won't be able to play till after that.
Bowsling
Deity
darski
Regent in Training
I don't think that is right. I lost a Pentagon build when I disbanded a 3rd army. I got the "we cannot complete should we build such and so".
You don't need any armies in the field to build the Military Academy, just to have had one. Perhaps Bowsling confused the Pentagon and the Military Academy in some way (the civliopedia might be wrong on the Pentagon).
Bowsling
Deity
No, I stand corrected. The times I do build the Pentagon, I have way more than three armies, and the times I don't, I have none or very few. So I've never encountered that situation. Good to know though.
tupaclives
Tupac Lives on!!
Pre-Flight:
Not a critiscm, but can we try to hand over with completed turns.
I think looking around, after this settler I'm going to switch Amsterdam to a worker pump and try and get the other cities up and running well.
Founding on the proposed spot sounds fine to me, do we want a war with Portugal soon though? (before they can ship too many units over) As we should be able to hold them off (the AI sucks at amphibious landings, even at SID level).
Hopefully China will knock off a few mongol cities in our kneck of the woods and give us some more space.
Also do we have any suggestions for where to settle beyond the site directly N of the portugese city (Faro)? East of Gronigen? (On the shores of the inland sea? perhaps on the hill just north of the choke).
Just get a bit of input before playing.
Not a critiscm, but can we try to hand over with completed turns.
I think looking around, after this settler I'm going to switch Amsterdam to a worker pump and try and get the other cities up and running well.
Founding on the proposed spot sounds fine to me, do we want a war with Portugal soon though? (before they can ship too many units over) As we should be able to hold them off (the AI sucks at amphibious landings, even at SID level).
Hopefully China will knock off a few mongol cities in our kneck of the woods and give us some more space.
Also do we have any suggestions for where to settle beyond the site directly N of the portugese city (Faro)? East of Gronigen? (On the shores of the inland sea? perhaps on the hill just north of the choke).
Just get a bit of input before playing.
I figured it'd be preferable to leave all units with their movement for next player.
We'll only need two spots, they could be temporary for the 400 shield palace prebuild. My suggestion would actually be to put one on a jungle tile, it'll save us a ton of worker turns and we can abandon it later. We could settle north of Faro, at least, if we want to settle there before going to war with the Portuguese, we should do it before Faro gets a cultural expansion. Or if it is too risky maybe another jungle tile.
I think most of the Mongol-Chinese war is taking place further away, so we might wait a long time for a razed town, though we should keep settlers at stand-by.
tupaclives
Tupac Lives on!!
Pre-Flight:
Cities look like they are set up perfectly
Turn 0 (1000BC) - Pick 2 city sites, Adjust the Hague for Palce in 6 (both settlers will take 5 turns to arrive, and adjust science accordingly). Switch Haarlem from Chariot to sword
IBT - Incans land a settler pair on the ruins in their south island (they are at war with babs?) Chinese horse kills a mongol archer flawlessly and promotes to elite. Forst chop completes at Eindhoven. It reveals a Bonus Grassland
Turn 1 (975BC) - Not sure if this is part of our plans (can't find a comment?) but I start marshalling swords and cats for a possible war with Portugal (to remove their presence from our mainland). Set Amsterdam to grow in 2.
IBT - America signs a MA with Babylon bringing them into a war with the Inca.
Chinese horse retreats without scratching from a mongol spear and is killed in the counterattack.
Turn 2 (950BC) - Arnhem: RAX --> Sword. MM all cities.
IBT - The Americans come calling, asking for a MA with the Inca, we could actually get a couple of techs for it, but I'm going to gamble on the GLib. We refuse.
Turn 3 (925BC) - Amsterdam: Settler --> Worker. Groningen: Cat --> Cat
IBT - Chinese galley loses to a Mongol galley off the South-West coast.
Turn 4 (900BC) - Eindhoven: Spear --> Spear. Maastricht will finish the settler before we get Map Making so I swap it to a catapult.
IBT - See an Incan galley to our far south, not sure if it's exploring or they are at war with one of our neighbours. Babylonians completed Sun Tzu's (Akkad). The Portugese complete Knights Templar (Evora)
Turn 5 (875BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker, Utrecht: Sword --> Sword. Found Den Helder north of Faro, and Harlingen on the shores of the inland sea. As predicted we get the jump in palace shields, now completing in 9, so I set research accordingly. We can get lit in 6 turns at 20% or 15 at 10%, I opt to run at 10% and will boost science as we get closer to completing the palace.
Information is power, so I order up some embassies rather than have the cash be demanded away.
Portugal:
And I investigate Faro (2 Spears) and Braga (2 spears, a warrior and a settler) both building workers.
Korea:
And China:
IBT - Korea declares war on the mongols
Turn 6 (850BC) - Establish an embassy with Babylon, who are enjoying their Golden Age
Hire a taxman in Breda to prevent a riot.
IBT - an Incan spear defends against a Bab MI at Vitcos.
Turn 7 (825BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker. Haarlem: Sword --> Sword. Holwerd: Cat --> RAX. Have 6 swords at Faro, so start moving cats and swords north to Braga as well.
IBT - Babs raze Andhylus (Incan)
Turn 8 (800BC) - Maastricht: Cat --> Settler (prebuild for harbor).
IBT - zzz
Turn 9 (775BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker. Utrecht: Sword --> Sword
IBT - zzz
Turn 10 (750BC) - Set science to 20%, Lit and Palace in 4.
Handover notes:
Lit and Palace are due in 4, don't have a brainfart like me in one game and forget to switch the palace over via the advisors when lite comes in
I'm really worried about our culture situation, when the GLib completes, could we build some temples to help protect against flips, I'd hate to lose cities at this point
We also have 2 groups near portugese cities. One has 6 swords (at Faro) the other has some cats and I was in the process of getting some more swords there (at Braga). Do we want a war with Porgugal?
These are isolated colonies far from support, they are spears not pikes (for now) and they are on sites we would happily hold. The question though, is the bit of land (no resources) worth a war with Portugal and a potential SID dogpile?
I'm going to say yes, because I think we can get in, get out before getting dogpiled and with both Portugese cities now having completed culture expansion it's going to put pressure on our cities, but what does the team think? It is a risk (imagine if they pulled Mongols, Korea or China into a war with us
)
I think we keep Amsterdam on worker factory for now, we have the need for a lot of workers!
Finally, do we revolt to Republic straight away or do we want to try and get a few markets up before revolting?
Anyway here is the situation
and the save
Cities look like they are set up perfectly
Turn 0 (1000BC) - Pick 2 city sites, Adjust the Hague for Palce in 6 (both settlers will take 5 turns to arrive, and adjust science accordingly). Switch Haarlem from Chariot to sword
IBT - Incans land a settler pair on the ruins in their south island (they are at war with babs?) Chinese horse kills a mongol archer flawlessly and promotes to elite. Forst chop completes at Eindhoven. It reveals a Bonus Grassland
Turn 1 (975BC) - Not sure if this is part of our plans (can't find a comment?) but I start marshalling swords and cats for a possible war with Portugal (to remove their presence from our mainland). Set Amsterdam to grow in 2.
IBT - America signs a MA with Babylon bringing them into a war with the Inca.
Chinese horse retreats without scratching from a mongol spear and is killed in the counterattack.
Turn 2 (950BC) - Arnhem: RAX --> Sword. MM all cities.
IBT - The Americans come calling, asking for a MA with the Inca, we could actually get a couple of techs for it, but I'm going to gamble on the GLib. We refuse.
Turn 3 (925BC) - Amsterdam: Settler --> Worker. Groningen: Cat --> Cat
IBT - Chinese galley loses to a Mongol galley off the South-West coast.
Turn 4 (900BC) - Eindhoven: Spear --> Spear. Maastricht will finish the settler before we get Map Making so I swap it to a catapult.
IBT - See an Incan galley to our far south, not sure if it's exploring or they are at war with one of our neighbours. Babylonians completed Sun Tzu's (Akkad). The Portugese complete Knights Templar (Evora)
Turn 5 (875BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker, Utrecht: Sword --> Sword. Found Den Helder north of Faro, and Harlingen on the shores of the inland sea. As predicted we get the jump in palace shields, now completing in 9, so I set research accordingly. We can get lit in 6 turns at 20% or 15 at 10%, I opt to run at 10% and will boost science as we get closer to completing the palace.
Information is power, so I order up some embassies rather than have the cash be demanded away.
Portugal:
Spoiler :
And I investigate Faro (2 Spears) and Braga (2 spears, a warrior and a settler) both building workers.
Korea:
Spoiler :
And China:
Spoiler :
IBT - Korea declares war on the mongols
Turn 6 (850BC) - Establish an embassy with Babylon, who are enjoying their Golden Age
Spoiler :
Hire a taxman in Breda to prevent a riot.
IBT - an Incan spear defends against a Bab MI at Vitcos.
Turn 7 (825BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker. Haarlem: Sword --> Sword. Holwerd: Cat --> RAX. Have 6 swords at Faro, so start moving cats and swords north to Braga as well.
IBT - Babs raze Andhylus (Incan)
Turn 8 (800BC) - Maastricht: Cat --> Settler (prebuild for harbor).
IBT - zzz
Turn 9 (775BC) - Amsterdam: Worker --> Worker. Utrecht: Sword --> Sword
IBT - zzz
Turn 10 (750BC) - Set science to 20%, Lit and Palace in 4.
Handover notes:
Lit and Palace are due in 4, don't have a brainfart like me in one game and forget to switch the palace over via the advisors when lite comes in
I'm really worried about our culture situation, when the GLib completes, could we build some temples to help protect against flips, I'd hate to lose cities at this point
We also have 2 groups near portugese cities. One has 6 swords (at Faro) the other has some cats and I was in the process of getting some more swords there (at Braga). Do we want a war with Porgugal?
These are isolated colonies far from support, they are spears not pikes (for now) and they are on sites we would happily hold. The question though, is the bit of land (no resources) worth a war with Portugal and a potential SID dogpile?
I'm going to say yes, because I think we can get in, get out before getting dogpiled and with both Portugese cities now having completed culture expansion it's going to put pressure on our cities, but what does the team think? It is a risk (imagine if they pulled Mongols, Korea or China into a war with us
)I think we keep Amsterdam on worker factory for now, we have the need for a lot of workers!
Finally, do we revolt to Republic straight away or do we want to try and get a few markets up before revolting?
Anyway here is the situation
Spoiler :
and the save
tupaclives
Tupac Lives on!!
ROSTER
tupaclives - Just Played
CKS - UP
Del62 - On Deck
Daeron
The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.
Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war. You may, however, incite them to war (demands to leave, espionage etc.)
Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.
The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.
Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.
Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.
Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.
You may not found and abandon a city in the same turn (this is to prevent 'crawling' your way through an AI civ's territory in 1 turn (by founding, moving a settler one tile, abandoning the city then founding a new city etc.)
You cannot gift the GLib away simply to allow you to gain a greater benefit by capturing it later. You may, however, capture the GLib as built by an AI civ at a later point in the game and receive the full benefit of doing so.
Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.
3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ. The ONLY exception is a pure per-turn deal if it is the last war of the game. I still don't like this, but this is a concession to the SG community standards.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
tupaclives - Just Played
CKS - UP
Del62 - On Deck
Daeron
The following tactics are PROHIBITED:
RoP Abuse Tactics - Denying resources, blocking key tiles, RoP rape, or other ways to screw-up a civ via the RoP. A scout in AI territory has an explicit RoP and is subject to this rule.
Peace Treaty abuse - If you get concessions from the AI you must wait for the 20 turns to end before declaring another war. You may, however, incite them to war (demands to leave, espionage etc.)
Resource abuse - You can't disconnect / reconnect a resource every turn for the sake of building cheap units to upgrade with excess cash.
The negative science exploit - you can run a huge deficit (-250 / turn) of negative cash with a token penalty of one lost worker / cheap building. If cash will go below zero, the research level must be dropped.
Palace Jump - You abandon the capital city to move the palace to a new location. If you want to move the palace, build a new palace.
Mass troop jumping - You can't give away a give a city to transport a large amount of troops to another landmass.
Worker blockades - You can't fortify a bunch of workers along the coast to prevent invasions, or shut down the borders with workers. The workers must be actively doing something.
You may not found and abandon a city in the same turn (this is to prevent 'crawling' your way through an AI civ's territory in 1 turn (by founding, moving a settler one tile, abandoning the city then founding a new city etc.)
You cannot gift the GLib away simply to allow you to gain a greater benefit by capturing it later. You may, however, capture the GLib as built by an AI civ at a later point in the game and receive the full benefit of doing so.
Standard LK house rules:
1) Worker automation of any kind is prohibited.
2) Our reputation is golden - please respect it.
3) You may not declare war on a civ if you are currently shipping cash and / or goods to the civ. The ONLY exception is a pure per-turn deal if it is the last war of the game. I still don't like this, but this is a concession to the SG community standards.
4) Even if not covered under exploits listed, please try not to use tactics that take advantage of holes in the game design.
I've got the save. I should be able to look things over tomorrow and play Friday evening.
I'm feeling very ambivalent about war with Portugal. I think my no votes are mostly just my natural discomfort about getting into war, though. With the Koreans and Chinese at war with the Mongols, we have less to worry about in terms of alliances against us, and we could spend some money making alliances of our own if we felt threatened.
I assume the marketplace question is in regard to happiness. With only three luxes, I'm not sure that delaying the revolt is worth it.
I'd rather build libraries than temples, but I'll be happy to build some cultural buildings.
I'm feeling very ambivalent about war with Portugal. I think my no votes are mostly just my natural discomfort about getting into war, though. With the Koreans and Chinese at war with the Mongols, we have less to worry about in terms of alliances against us, and we could spend some money making alliances of our own if we felt threatened.
I assume the marketplace question is in regard to happiness. With only three luxes, I'm not sure that delaying the revolt is worth it.
I'd rather build libraries than temples, but I'll be happy to build some cultural buildings.
tupaclives
Tupac Lives on!!
I suggested temples over libraries because
a) what are the odds of us doing any research beyond min sci in the near future/at all?
b) with only 3 luxs the happiness would be helpful, particularly in Republic when we lack the happiness from MPs
a) what are the odds of us doing any research beyond min sci in the near future/at all?
b) with only 3 luxs the happiness would be helpful, particularly in Republic when we lack the happiness from MPs
del62
Deity
Perhaps we could have a pause the turn after the GLIB arrives and review situation, good work anyway, the GLIB will give us some options for selling techs for cash and gpt and luxuries
Libraries give more culture per shield and per upkeep dollar than temples, but I hadn't been considering the happiness effect. I'm not sure that I think temples are cost effective as happiness producers, but I'm fine with building either temples or libraries.
I will definitely stop when the Glib comes in, so we can discuss things. I'll try to play through then tonight, continuing to plan for a possible war with Portugal but not doing anything to start one.
Republic is my default government, but we are going to be warring a lot, with huge numbers of opposing units. This makes the potential for early war weariness high, even if we never lose a unit, because we'll be attacked a lot. Perhaps we should discuss the possibility of a different government.
I only ever use temples for expansions and fighting cultural pressure if my Civ is religious. As CKS pointed out, you get more culture per upkeep, so it does a much better job against foreign culture pressure. The extra happy face often enough doesn't make much of a difference considering we'll need to crank up the slider to keep other towns happy as well.
On governments, it depends on our strategy. If we go for monarchy, I think we'll have to play very aggressive to make it worth getting behind in techs more.
On governments, it depends on our strategy. If we go for monarchy, I think we'll have to play very aggressive to make it worth getting behind in techs more.
del62
Deity
My preference for government is generally republic, I would think if we have a war with the portugese it would only be for a minimum number of turns, do we revolt as soon as GLIb is built while waiting for techs?
Here is the post GL situation:
Learn Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Chivalry.
Portuguese have theology, no one else has anything else we don't. No one has literature. Babylon lacks nothing else. Korea still is missing currency and monarchy. The Mongols and Inca have no middle age techs. China only has feudalism, while America has feudalism and monotheism.
The Mongols have two workers. Nobody has real money except Portugal.
Turn log so far:
IBT: Nothing exciting. Mongols move units east. Worker -> worker.
Turn 1:
Move sword and catapults north of the Hague. Lots of worker actions. Explore with curraghs.
IBT: Gronigen catapult -> catapult
Turn 2:
Same as T1.
IBT: Middleburg cat -> cat, Eindhoven spear -> sword, Amsterdam worker -> worker
Turn 3:
Same as T2
IBT: Great Library -> library, Haarlem sword -> sword
Turn 4:
Same as T3.
IBT: Learn Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Chivalry.
Learn Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Chivalry.
Portuguese have theology, no one else has anything else we don't. No one has literature. Babylon lacks nothing else. Korea still is missing currency and monarchy. The Mongols and Inca have no middle age techs. China only has feudalism, while America has feudalism and monotheism.
The Mongols have two workers. Nobody has real money except Portugal.
Turn log so far:
IBT: Nothing exciting. Mongols move units east. Worker -> worker.
Turn 1:
Move sword and catapults north of the Hague. Lots of worker actions. Explore with curraghs.
IBT: Gronigen catapult -> catapult
Turn 2:
Same as T1.
IBT: Middleburg cat -> cat, Eindhoven spear -> sword, Amsterdam worker -> worker
Turn 3:
Same as T2
IBT: Great Library -> library, Haarlem sword -> sword
Turn 4:
Same as T3.
IBT: Learn Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial, Mysticism, Philosophy, Code of Laws, Map Making, Horseback Riding, Polytheism, Currency, Republic, Monarchy, Construction, Monotheism, Feudalism, Engineering, Chivalry.
