Turn 3250 - Another hut

[duke o' york]

Er ainwood, that would make the chariot a sitting duck. He'd pop the hut with his last 1/3 of a move (if it even allowed it) and since we're at an early stage and unlikely to get more than a single barb horsey then it would attack and finish off the chariot. Even on a river, I reckon the chariot would be toast. With the legion on the hill then it might not be able to attack the horseman but that would depend upon where it appears. I say that we can move the legion to the hill but also end the chariot's move when it is next to the hut and use it to open it on the next turn. That will let the chariot have an attack, and the legion too if necessary. If only Civ 2 gave you a view bonus from the hill like Civ 3 does.....

 

[ainwood]

That's what I meant (and why I drew the pretty lines ) The numbers are supposed to be the turn numbers - we park the chariot next to the hut, and pop it with the first move of the second turn.

 

[Dell19]

If we do this, are we then going to make the legion explore to the south afterwards and the chariot to the North east because of the terrain?

 

[duke o' york]

That seems to be a fair enough plan, using the river to take the legion as far as possible along, but remember that it will depend on what emerges from the hut how we proceed. If we encounter other civs' troops then we may have to reappraise yet again!

 

[GaryNemo]

Nice pictures. I like the Duke's City Plan better too. And Ainwood's plan to safely pop the hut when both units are ready. Ainwood, maybe contact Dell19 and join our other game...

The southern Legion and Archer will both move South one move, of course, but then that Legion can proceed north, perhaps become a river guard.

I am saddened by one feature of the City Plan. Both cities planned between RC and TFalls are on forest, seem good long term placement, but I wish we could build them sooner. On the forests, there will be delay in Settler production, and helper unit production. So, I timidly suggest another city, built sooner, forever strangled with Settler production, on the Pure Green Grassland directly between our cities. It provides a free road, and the roads will provide relief if Barbs attack our present core. We want all other cities to grow a bit.

So, Gems will be next city, I can't talk you guys out of that, but the Central Pure Green is a good choice for #4. Free Road that we need, free production, Settler spawning, and thousands of years of benefit from otherwise unused squares.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

Dukes plan it is IMHO. But Gary is right about the forest thing - so maybe we should accept a lil more overlap.

 

[Zwelgje]

I never build cities on forrest, I first irrigate the square and then I'll settle.

 

[mordhiem]

Hmm, I too dislike building on forests. But I do like putting the third city on the river mouth, which I considered, but my idea was build a city in that region that could get the whale, then the next settlers go upstream and get the trade rich river tiles quickly. The 'filler' city was always planned to be built lastly.

But hey, it's still a good plan.

 

[GaryNemo]

Building on the forests is the future. Understand, I love the Duke's City Plan, the Gems City, the SE Whales, the River Mouth. Regarding a forest city: it is possible to build first, crank out a Dip or Caravan, and have a later settler irrigate the site into Plains. But at the moment, we have no spare Settlers.

So, how do we get that far into the future? That's why I suggest building on the Pure Green Central square, soon. It will never need a harbor anyway.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by civ1-addict
I never build cities on forrest, I first irrigate the square and then I'll settle.

Yes, sorry, that was just a 'given' for me so I didn't cover it in the text. We would irrigate the forest to plains first. That is also the reason they would be built after city #2. City #2 we can build right away and then it can help build more settlers to fill in the other two cities.

 

[Zwelgje]

OK then, I couldn't imagine somebody building a city on forrest.
If you are in another government it might be possible though as irrigated planes or a special produce more food than in despotism and thus the population can grow. At this point in the game it's not advisable to build at such difficult sites.

 

[duke o' york]

I once built my capital on a mountain just because it was in the centre of a 4-special with two gold, some silk and wheat. The wheat didn't last long enough to make this blunder worthwhile and I quit the game after a few turns.
If it had access to some fish or whales or any decent food specials then I would have no hesitation in sticking a city on forest. As has been said, you can always improve the tile later in the game.

 

[Leowind]

Ainwood, you plan for popping the hut makes a lot of sense, but I wonder if it is overkill? Are we likely to get any more than one horse out of a hut at this point in the game? (somebody with more knowledge of likely hut results can answer that hopefully)? If not, then I say pop the hut with the legion now and let the chariot explore. Your plan essentially stops exploration for two turns while the chariot gets in position then pops the hut. If the legion pops a horse, he stands a 50/50 chance of surviving. If we lose the legion, isn't this the one supported by RC? Would not be such a loss considering it would free up another shield for building that wonder. Unless there is a resonable chance to get more than one horse out of the hut, I say take the chance and pop it now with the legion.

 

[Leowind]

Some random thoughts concerning this issue: The filler cities will not be built for awhile, so by the time they are perhaps we can spare the settler time to irrigate the sites first. At this early stage of the game I would not be very likely to spend the time irrigating to get a better city site. If they are only filler cities and not expected to grow very big, perhaps building on forest would not be so bad, either. In any case, I agree the big cities should be founded first, and these filler cities started later when the good sites are covered. That would mean we have several centuries before we have to decide this issue

 

[ainwood]

Fair point, Leo.

Its may even be a blessing-in-disguise to lose the legion, and I suggest that if we get another unit out that isn't a NON, then we may want to disband the legion anyway.

 

[GaryNemo]

The Legion support problem will go away in about 3 turns, once Regia Civitas becomes size 2. If we have a large Island, we'll need the Legion.

I say, pop using Ainwood's safe plan, or don't pop now. Another reason to move the Horse: it appears better terrain for the Horse to the NW, and slow Forest terrain to the SE.

 

[duke o' york]

Sorry about this but....

Stop calling the chariot a horse! I keep thinking that we've already popped the hut and got a new unit.

Yeah, sorry about that.


I agree with Leo. The legion has a defence of 2 and on the river will be able to defeat the single horseman that is our only chance of a barbarian at this stage in the game. How's the science situation with regard to popping this hut? I realise that if we get a duff tech then we have already got a good number of beakers towards CB but do we want to prolong Monarchy by the chance of getting a tech? Bear in mind that if we leave the hut until we have researched Monarchy then there will be 8 barbs from the hut.
I say pop with the legion and send the chariot northwards.

 

[Lt. 'Killer' M.]

duke: very valid point about science. Good thing there's someone here who thinks of stuff like that!

 

[ainwood]

Except that the hut is on open terrain - the legion won't have the defensive bonus.

Still, I've reconsidered and tend to agree that we pop the hut as-is - losing the legion is not a biggy.

One thing - if we lose the legion, won't the barb then bee-line for the nearest city? This in itself may be useful, as it might tell us where the AI is - or if the AI is no-where to be seen.

Or am I completely wrong about the barb behaviour

 

[duke o' york]

You're right about the open terrain. Doh!
Still, I say we pop it and hope for the best.
I think you are right about the barb behaviour - but this applies even when the nearest city is overseas so it might be useful to know where the enemy are. I am starting to think that the legion is heading up a dead end and that the chariot will reveal far more land to the west as it appears to curve all the way round towards RC again. Of the two sea squares next to the hut (which would mean only 6 barbs and not 8 as I said earlier), one is obviously a lake but the other seems to stretch out further. I say we need to get the other legion up to his mates quickly because there will be lots more exploration to be done.