Turn 72 -1225BC

[akots]

Looks like the turns come to our mailbox when all Europe is sleeping. Being in US, I decided to pick it up again.

Not much happened this turn. Here is a quick summary of the actions:

1) Production in the capital switched from Granary to JT which is scheduled to be ready in 5 turns. He can apparently make it to the settler from Zoi and galley from Rytty and accompany the settler to the iron island.

2) Galley prebuild is going as scheduled. We will have the vessel ready next turn after discovery of Map Making which will happen in 3 turns.

3) SoZ in TF will be ready in 11 turns.

4) Our boats continue to explore. Eastern boat reveal a few more tiles of C3B homeland:

 

[akots]

5) Zoi has been micromanaged a little bit. Citizen working the cow tile has been switched to the forest tile as shown in the picture by an arrow:

 

[akots]

And here is the result. Note that one extra uncorrupted shield appeared and settler build changed from 6 turns to 4 turns. Growth to size 4 is still in 1 turn.

Meanwhile, Charnel, which is a very corrupt city, has been switched to that cow. It still makes 1 uncorrupted shield per turn but it's growth changed from 7 turns to 4 turns due to extra food. Next turn, after Zoi grows, it gets two additional shields from a citizens added to the town working the forest in-between-turns (IBT). Then, being at size 4, Zoi will be working 2 irrigated cows, BG and forest for growth in 4 turns. Looks like the settler there would be ready on turn 4/5 IBT and can be moved somewhere (to iron island) already in 4 turns. Charnel goes back to game forest tile gaining some food during this operation.

The picture of Zoi after the adjustments:

 

[akots]

And finally, our glorious military:

 

[akots]

There are a few issues:

1) What are we going to build in Charnel? Harbor accelearted by forest chop?

2) Can we use our flood plain city as a worker factory? Then if we do, how many workers do we need from there?

3) Should we try to accelerate SoZ build by joining a worker to TF? IMO, not because this would require to increase luxury rate to 20% and maximal acceleration would be by 1 or 2 turns. We can leave the city like it is and should keep in mind that we need barracks there.

4) What units apart from JT from the capital should be dispatched to the iron island? Another settler + JT? Or settler + warrior + worker? Or we will build worker there on our own?

5) Do we start building small navy to transport our AC units to the other continent or we wait for some time and accumulate stronger military?

6) Do we try to build the Great Lighthouse in Rytty?

7) We still have to decide which tech to research next after Map Making. Currency is a good idea and Code of Laws is also good.

8) When we get Monarchy from C3B, do we revolt immediately? IMO we should revolt ASAP after getting the tech.

9) Note that the Vikings are still going down. They might be on the virge of survival.

10) So far, exploration with our curraghs revealed that C3B lands are not very fertile. They have flood plains but also many mountains. Looks like that due to our fertile grasslands and agricultural nature of our people frantically growing vegetables, we would be able to catch up in population and may be even in score with them after Monarchy is established. Or do we wait for Republic to revolt?

 

[RegentMan]

That is some beautiful micromanaging. akots. Good job!

2) Can we use our flood plain city as a worker factory? Then if we do, how many workers do we need from there?
If a worker factory is even feasible, I say let's get it going and pump as many workers as we can from there.

3) Should we try to accelerate SoZ build by joining a worker to TF?
Mostly for the reasons you stated, I don't think we need to.

5) Do we start building small navy to transport our AC units to the other continent or we wait for some time and accumulate stronger military?
I think a few galleys will suffice. Do we want to try to found a city on the other continent, so that we can try to establish a presence over there instead of them over here?

6) Do we try to build the Great Lighthouse in Rytty?
I feel that this will be a hot wonder, so it'll be gone once we get close. At least, that's how it goes with my luck.

7) We still have to decide which tech to research next after Map Making. Currency is a good idea and Code of Laws is also good.
I think we'll find more use with courthouses than marketplaces at the moment. Plus, it's one step closer to The Republic, which is what most people seem to want right now.

8) When we get Monarchy from C3B, do we revolt immediately?
Unless we're still building the SoZ or a very important settler, revolt ASAP.

 

[Ankka]

1) What are we going to build in Charnel? Harbor accelearted by forest chop?

harbor.... we need a harbor somewhere, and I think we could as well chop some forest here, perhaps the game.

2) Can we use our flood plain city as a worker factory? Then if we do, how many workers do we need from there?

We need as many workers as we can build.

3) Should we try to accelerate SoZ build by joining a worker to TF? IMO, not because this would require to increase luxury rate to 20% and maximal acceleration would be by 1 or 2 turns. We can leave the city like it is and should keep in mind that we need barracks there.

Yes, I think it wouldn't do as much good as a loss of a worker and money per turn would. The barracks should be built immidiately after the SoZ is complete; after that we can go for something else, like The FP?

4) What units apart from JT from the capital should be dispatched to the iron island? Another settler + JT? Or settler + warrior + worker? Or we will build worker there on our own?

I think transporting a worker there would be good. It ould take at least 10 turns to complete, in which time a worker could have already completed the road to the Iron, and we could build a harbor meantime.

5) Do we start building small navy to transport our AC units to the other continent or we wait for some time and accumulate stronger military?

I think this depends on what we find with our curraghs... perhaps we should build a few galleys for suicidal trips.

6) Do we try to build the Great Lighthouse in Rytty?

IMVHO it would be too expensive, but actually might be worth it, again, it depends on how accessible the other island is with galleys.

7) We still have to decide which tech to research next after Map Making. Currency is a good idea and Code of Laws is also good.

Currency IMVHO. We could use the money.

8) When we get Monarchy from C3B, do we revolt immediately? IMO we should revolt ASAP after getting the tech.

I also think revolting ASAP would be good, forless corruption and the tile production penalty.

9) Note that the Vikings are still going down. They might be on the virge of survival.

Down with GCA!

10) So far, exploration with our curraghs revealed that C3B lands are not very fertile. They have flood plains but also many mountains. Looks like that due to our fertile grasslands and agricultural nature of our people frantically growing vegetables, we would be able to catch up in population and may be even in score with them after Monarchy is established. Or do we wait for Republic to revolt?

I think we should go for Monarchy and revolt, Republic is still a while away... and if we go for Currency, it'll take even longer to reach it.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

There are a few issues:

5) Do we start building small navy to transport our AC units to the other continent or we wait for some time and accumulate stronger military?

I say we stay isolated from the other teams until our relationship with C3B is stonger. If we go over there I can promise you that they will try to break us up. That way if they get one ally on this side of the ocean then they will be easy to attack us, if C3B were to ally with them.

6) Do we try to build the Great Lighthouse in Rytty?

Yes, supposing this thing about the other continant gets to 2vs2 then we will need the easrly advantage.

7) We still have to decide which tech to research next after Map Making. Currency is a good idea and Code of Laws is also good.

Well I would like to go stright for Republic.

8) When we get Monarchy from C3B, do we revolt immediately? IMO we should revolt ASAP after getting the tech.

Once SoZ is done then we will start revolting into any goverment.

9) Note that the Vikings are still going down. They might be on the virge of survival.

O darn, I was hoping that CFC would bring them down

10) So far, exploration with our curraghs revealed that C3B lands are not very fertile. They have flood plains but also many mountains. Looks like that due to our fertile grasslands and agricultural nature of our people frantically growing vegetables, we would be able to catch up in population and may be even in score with them after Monarchy is established. Or do we wait for Republic to revolt?

In short yes, we probaly will not be at war anytime soon so I think we should.

 

[akots]

OK, so far, to summarize these important issues:

1) Charnel may start on harbor which would be apparently partially hurried by forest chop and partially pop-rushed as a last resort.

2) We build worker only from the flood plain city. Nothing else. It would grow well with an irrigated tile, so after certain time if would have too large population. While in Despotism, we can pop-rush something there.

3) SoZ is going on schedule, no need to accelerate.

4) Iron town would start building harbor immediately. IMO, we would then have to dispatch worker and warrior there. JT would explore and warrior would guard the city and serve as MP. Worker will road the iron mountain.

5-6) Rytty may build a harbor as well and start producing veteran galleys. Or may just make straight regular ships. Building Lighthouse there is an option to consider.

7) Currency or CoL would be polled.

8-10) We are facing 2 revolutions then. Just reminding that being in anarchy twice is not a very good idea. But hard to tell. It might be better to poll this important aspect.

 

[Hygro]

1 anarchy, into republic please!

 

[Rik Meleet]

1) What are we going to build in Charnel? Harbor accelearted by forest chop?
Harbor sounds fine.

2) Can we use our flood plain city as a worker factory? Then if we do, how many workers do we need from there?
As many as possible; workers do great stuff improving the lands and merging into cities. It's either a worker pump or a settler pump.

3) Should we try to accelerate SoZ build by joining a worker to TF? IMO, not because this would require to increase luxury rate to 20% and maximal acceleration would be by 1 or 2 turns. We can leave the city like it is and should keep in mind that we need barracks there.
Multiple workers can be joined. It might cause that we need to increase the lux-slider; let me calculate this. 2 turns isn't worth the lux-increase; but 4 turns of is worthwhile, already. We still need 75 shields for SoZ.
We have 7 uncorrupted shields -> 11 turns. If we can get it up to 9 -> 9 turns (not worth it). But if we can get it up to 10 -> 8 turns (not worth it) 11 -> 7 turns, now this gets interesting. But we'd need to join about 4 or 5 workers in order to do that and the lux-increase is too much. Don't join workers.

4) What units apart from JT from the capital should be dispatched to the iron island? Another settler + JT? Or settler + warrior + worker? Or we will build worker there on our own?
4 or 5 settlers + 4 or 5 JT + about 8 workers. I view not as an Iron-island, but as a safe haven in case all goes wrong.

5) Do we start building small navy to transport our AC units to the other continent or we wait for some time and accumulate stronger military?I'm not aware we've located another continent. I'd say we wait with building a navy until we know where the other civs are. I don't like to have a navy of 20 galleys who can't reach the others for 100's of turns, costing us 4000 gold in upkeep-cost.

6) Do we try to build the Great Lighthouse in Rytty?
yeah, if we can't build anything useful there.

7) We still have to decide which tech to research next after Map Making. Currency is a good idea and Code of Laws is also good.
See my answer in the thread on it.

8) When we get Monarchy from C3B, do we revolt immediately? IMO we should revolt ASAP after getting the tech.
See my answer in the thread on it.

9) Note that the Vikings are still going down. They might be on the virge of survival.
So? We can later decide to kill 1 other civ with the aid of C3B or go against C3B. It all depends on where the others are.

10) So far, exploration with our curraghs revealed that C3B lands are not very fertile. They have flood plains but also many mountains. Looks like that due to our fertile grasslands and agricultural nature of our people frantically growing vegetables, we would be able to catch up in population and may be even in score with them after Monarchy is established. Or do we wait for Republic to revolt?
See my answer in the thread on it.

Remarks
We need to scout the C3B lands soon. I prefer to do that with a warrior in a galley, for increased speed. Khazâd-Dûm can build the galley, where will the warrior come from ?

 

[RegentMan]

I guess my question got skipped over. Do we want to be bold and try to found a city (a sort of beachhead) on the other continent, so that we can try to establish a presence over there instead of them over here? It would most definently mean war, but if we could found a city and keep it, it'd make invasion a whole lot easier.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

Remarks
We need to scout the C3B lands soon. I prefer to do that with a warrior in a galley, for increased speed. Khazâd-Dûm can build the galley, where will the warrior come from ?

Our treaty only allows for curracks (or whatever they are called), so we will need to ask C3B about it.

 

[akots]

... Do we want to be bold and try to found a city (a sort of beachhead) on the other continent, so that we can try to establish a presence over there instead of them over here? ...

May be it sounds pessimistic but I'm afraid that by the time we get to another continent, there would be no empty place there to settle. And if we do, the city would be eliminated rapidly by the opponents. But hard to tell now, don't know really.

 

[Rik Meleet]

Our treaty only allows for curracks (or whatever they are called), so we will need to ask C3B about it.

We can just sail to the edge of their lands and drop of our warrior, then the Galley returns to our lands as a ferry between our homeland and our island. No exploration with the galley needed.

 

[RegentMan]

May be it sounds pessimistic but I'm afraid that by the time we get to another continent, there would be no empty place there to settle. And if we do, the city would be eliminated rapidly by the opponents. But hard to tell now, don't know really.

I don't think it'll work out either, but I wanted to see what everyone thought of it.