Turn Discussion Thread

[BLubmuz]

Why? Blub is logged in, and he can say it.

Yes, i'm logged and for a long time since i was called and i forgot to log out. Sorry.

I made a count of our units, so i can draft my war plan.
Mavs recaptured the city, but probably the vote arrived in the IBT, so we were eligibile to vote. Not clear why they choose that resolution.

When logging i've seen Ama asking to exchange WMs, so i accepted.

I moved the lightly damaged EI to the coast, close to the 2 barb galleys. If they attack it will gain his XP.
Moved the EI with our retrating troops to arrive in the coast tile S of Vega.
I also reversed the queue in Canopus, so the EI will be completed before the WE.

I'd like to see 2 settlers out of Arcturus and Vega. They can produce them in 4 turns, Vega with some MM.

Later i'll post my war plan.

 

[HUSch]

Why should our main military towns build settler? We build them in Rigel. The settler 'll whipp this turn, then we build a lh with overlay, and grow with building a lib, then whipp the next settler.

Why are the units going south of vega on land and not at the army point? What is the reason for this move? Is this the decision you must make best quick?
There is at least 10-15 hours for our turn so there is no reason to move units at first time anybody logged in.

How long, you think, Quat can hold the iron-hill? When has arrived our time to attack?

Has Quat galleons left the Quat isle or not? I 've seen not.

 

[HUSch]

Should Arc build a WE now? Why this? Without stable this is stupid. We 've now 2 towns which can build mounted units. other towns only, if there is a danger.

 

[BLubmuz]

Before answer to all HUSch questions, this is the list of our present units:
4 EI, 2 carav
5 cat, 2 treb
6 archer, 3 war
2 HA
7 Mace, 1 Pike

all the archers and warriors are busy in MP duties and 1 mace too. I think it's better keep hims where he is and add an archer. There's a warrior in Sirius which can be moved in the new city.

my first wave proposal:
4 WE, 2 HA, 6 maces, 2Xbows, 4 cats, 2 trebs to be boarded in 5 EIs.
Ready to join: 2 archers, 1 mace, 1 pike, 1 cat.
This is a minimal stack, be warned. We need a lot more to seriously think to wipe Mavs.

Another EI to ferry units from Sol/Anjen to Bode.

Why settlers instead of military? Because we need more cities!
Settling the Whale and the Incense/fort cities we gain 2 luxuries, even if the cities themselves are a bit weak. Then we can settle our 2 strongest, but less strategic (for now) cities.
Waiting now to take the Mavs is not a big deal. Waiting to settle the cities is, since the soon they are settled, the soon they can start build a minimal infrastructure and military.

I'm tired to recommend to start some Diplo with our allies. We need to know when they think to research Feud, and we also need to define with Amazon our common startegy until the end of the NAP. And maybe to see what they think on extending this, is we're interested in doing so.

Trystero, you are one of our diplomats.

Irgy, you are the diplomat for Amazon. BTW, i don't see you much active. Can you please tell us if you're busy or if you've lost interest?

LordParkin, where are you? You're the most experienced multi player on this team, not to mention you're the founder. Can we count on you?

 

[BLubmuz]

Should Arc build a WE now? Why this? Without stable this is stupid. We 've now 2 towns which can build mounted units. other towns only, if there is a danger.

I haven't touched any Bode city. BTW, we'd better build a chariot after the GLib in Sirius to have a unit to attach to our first GG when he will arrive.
I suppose you all know the benefits to have super medic when at war. And a chariot is a great choice, 'cause it will never defend the stack but it can be used for some mop-up.

Medic3+morale is just great.

 

[AlphaShard]

Would GG+Theology insure 5th level unit for HE? Also make sure Sirius has stable and barracks.

 

[BLubmuz]

Would GG+Theology insure 5th level unit for HE? Also make sure Sirius has stable and barracks.

I've not cheked, but HUSch posted we must build mounted in Sirius and Canopus.
I any case, the GG alone when attached is enough for the HE. I think that Vega or Arct are the best candidates for that.

 

[HUSch]

See I it right the first general is for Medic-chariot (a good idea often used), then we 've a unit >4. grade, this is enough for HE, we need for this a unit with 10XP. Theo gives 2, a general as instruteur gives additional 2, with 5 from stable/barracks, we get then only 9 XP.

We 've in the moment in Can and AC stables, build before we get the HA.

Blub I 've not say, you 've done anything. Someone has chosen this, and my question was, why.

Your chosen army is very bad in defence,

If we need settler, we can build they, Procyon is in some turns ready to assist in this; but why should we found cities, which need more than necessary instead of some, which don't?
The whale-towns is at the end of Bode, in Anjen the position is for Ama, if I remember right the last messages to/from them. What is the benefit from whale, 1 luck, we don't 've a need of luck, that we must give a settler for that.

 

[BLubmuz]

See I it right the first general is for Medic-chariot (a good idea often used), then we 've a unit >4. grade, this is enough for HE, we need for this a unit with 10XP. Theo gives 2, a general as instruteur gives additional 2, with 5 from stable/barracks, we get then only 9 XP.

We 've in the moment in Can and AC stables, build before we get the HA.

Blub I 've not say, you 've done anything. Someone has chosen this, and my question was, why.

Your chosen army is very bad in defence,

If we need settler, we can build they, Procyon is in some turns ready to assist in this; but why should we found cities, which need more than necessary instead of some, which don't?
The whale-towns is at the end of Bode, in Anjen the position is for Ama, if I remember right the last messages to/from them. What is the benefit from whale, 1 luck, we don't 've a need of luck, that we must give a settler for that.

The only way to use the first GG is to attach him to a unit.
You must be careful in having only the chosen unit in the tile with the GG, then he will give 20 XP to that unit. Out of the barracks+stable a chariot (not a HA, too strong) will have 5 XP, enough for C1+M1.
Then, attached to a GG he will arrive to 25/26: M2+M3 (this last is possible only when attached to a GG). Once we use it to take the last injured unit after our siege it will gain the 1XP needed for Morale. 3 moves are just great, both for mop up and to join a newly conquered city or big stack.

For the rest: growth is power! With more luxuries we can grow our cities larger, or whip more often. With more cities we increase our production and research capabilities.
The whales city will give us not only a luxury, but 3C from the oasis and 5 from the whaling boats, more than enough to pay for its maintenance.
Same for the incense/fort city. Not only the fort, which we need, and a new luxury but great commerce from working the plantations. Incense on plains is like gold.

The other 2 cities can be production powerhouses, but i see them less strategic.

Weak on defense? You can be right, mine was minimal force. With a 6th EI involved we can immediately ferry 2 archers+2Xbows. But we delay the attack. We can see how things evolve, then decide.

 

[HUSch]

Why are 8 enough for maintenance? Make a test. How many pop do you want grow in Sirius or Canopus? The real cap is whipp. Before you take coast tiles, it's better to whipp. That is more reason for making a good usages of our territory. We need production not additional luxus-res. In center Bode there are allways hillmines without working, so another town should work them.

See the quat idea, in 2 turns they send they units and they 've a long way. Correct it's possible to go at the hill and then every new turn 4 more there. The only (important) difference is, that now Mav 'll have cats. If we wait too long the Quat stack 'll be deminished. Then they can build cross again. So it's very possible that we 've to split our force against cat attack. If the stack is big enough there is only hash meat after cats attack.


I ask you, what is your plan? Take any test save or build one and show me, how you can hold there. The asking after more units is nice, but imo not enough.


To all:

Correct I would decline every attack now til I 've better units. I would reseach to knights or musk. I don't think any army could win there anything. But our tech situation is bancrott. I can only hope nobody is giving nationalism to other before we 've Taj. There comes the idea: "what is with mausi?"

Mav must be more careful now, that we don't attack Injinya and destroy it. The plan is to win this game, not to get a beauty price for it. We are without Pyra better than the other. I would prefer you all look at your priorities and don't look at the Pyras with the meaning without we coldn't win the game. Against is a little difficult, but without it's nobody has ist. What would be the lost?
What I mean, is: we 've lost a second try (now 8 units and the surprise) and the only reaction is: "more units". Please wake up, you/we are long enough in our dreams (I 've dreamed also, it's so nice). If we want/need more cities (like Blub says), than it 'll be. but we can not make a half war.

 

[BLubmuz]

HUSch, i want more cities 'cause a wanna win this game!
As i said, more cities means more production, more research, more gold. Maintenance problems? whip CHs.

Now, it's good news Amazon are researching Feud. I'd say: let's buils archers, then upgrade them to LB if/when needed.

I think i agree with your concept of half-war. For now, let's keep the blockade to avoid iron in the Mavs spire and mounted in their island. A few cats are not worrying me much.

When we have 4 EIs full of units good on defense (WE, Xbows, even archers), we can unload them in Omaha beach with some cat, then wait for reinforcements hoping Mavs lose some units trying to attack ours.

 

[HUSch]

The most maintenance is not diminished with CH, civics costs and at some number (colonial costs, that is not my experience but knowing from other players in DGs).

When we have 4 EIs full of units good on defense (WE, Xbows, even archers), we can unload them in Omaha beach with some cat, then wait for reinforcements hoping Mavs lose some units trying to attack ours.

Try it and show me the result, Mav can only build archer and cats (all with at least 5 XP), with PS Gold can produce in 5 turns 4 cats, Injinya must grow has forge and granary, Iron can make a cat every 2 turns. Additional whipps. And they 've with their general-units the best units and the moving advantage.

But perhaps we get better techs from Ama. First LA then Knights. latter are the best I heard in the last few days.

 

[HUSch]

Now for the turn, the mil units are clear.
1. The wb makes a fish-boat
2, Betei should better work mine this turn, then it grows 1 turn later but has then 12/24 , in the other case it's 1/24 with an additional turn, and the needing of the chop gain to finish. So mine is better.
3. Whip in Rigel, pop 2 (forest, green cottage), move dawn (EI 1) near Achenar, so that the settler can embark the ship next turn. It's the same for all places of founding the next city, the EI must take the settler.
4. I 've changed the mm in some towns, for I think best.
5. The worker should do, what the marker shows.

I would like, if there is no enter (finish turn). Perhaps we get the Xmas-pause for considering our situation and disagreements.

 

[Irgy]

Irgy, you are the diplomat for Amazon. BTW, i don't see you much active. Can you please tell us if you're busy or if you've lost interest

Still here. Home internet is down for a while, so I'm less active though. Particularly over the weekend. I should still be able to handle the diplomacy though.

As far as discussing post M&M plans with Amazon, I'm aware of the need to, but every time I've raised the subject with them so far they've ignored it completely. They're entirely focused on defeating M&M at the moment and have been going to great lengths to hold everyone together. We can push the issue with them but I don't think it's the right move.

The next step as I see it is a message to CDZ to secure their support against Quatronia post M&M. I'll try and post a suggestion today or tomorrow.

 

[Irgy]

12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Logged out
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Finished turn
12/20/10 11:24 am socralynnek Score decreased to 971
12/20/10 11:13 am socralynnek Score increased to 984
12/20/10 11:13 am 2metraninja Score decreased to 904
12/20/10 11:10 am socralynnek Logged in

Anyone know what this is about?

 

[HUSch]

12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Logged out
12/20/10 11:27 am socralynnek Finished turn
12/20/10 11:24 am socralynnek Score decreased to 971 -13
12/20/10 11:13 am socralynnek Score increased to 984 +13
12/20/10 11:13 am 2metraninja Score decreased to 904 -13
12/20/10 11:10 am socralynnek Logged in

13 SP is equivalent to pop 2
It shows Ama gives city with pop 2 to CDZ and then CDZ whipp pop 2.

I 've looked the save:
Ama gives city of lib (pop 3 from Merlot) to CDZ and get the city of Sangre ( pop 1, CDZ conquered from Merlot.
At map/pic you can see it makes sense. But it shows good relations. At least better than between Quat and we.

Spoiler :

 

[HUSch]

I 've moved the last worker and spy and whipped in Rigel.

 

[HUSch]

Question and discussion of our next cities.

My preference for the next founding is the coast at the army point. Blub means we need lux res for growing our cities, we can now grow ~ to pop 15 in our towns, so I see no reason for this..
For the spot pro: he has connection to our land and worker.
Additional I prefer the north tile, it's the only chance to get the forest in NW (Vega SW). The south tile has more free land, but for what? When we work in the city at hillmines, the city 'll be like Vega/Arc, only in few times work coast.

btw
If we look at Bodes south coast, I find no reason for "Blub3" against "Alpha A".

Spoiler :

 

[BLubmuz]

Question and discussion of our next cities.

If we look at Bodes south coast, I find no reason for "Blub3" against "Alpha A".

The same reason why i think your proposal is better than mine and Alpha. The city in the W coast is better, since it can work more land and has less overlap with Blub3. Blub3 is there beacuse of Blub2 (the fort city).

Alpha placed his proposed sites in a way that AlphaA was logical, but Blub2 is far better than his fort/canal city.

 

[AlphaShard]

I agree with Blubmuz that we need cities and it's for our Domination VC that I have been clamoring for a long time now. Every luxury counts as much as every population AND land tile does. I did point out a while ago that we seem to be in the lead for a Domination VC and we should go for that so yes every settler counts.

Also capturing and keeping Injinya will mean keeping it's population as well as the Pyramids. Trust me Husch no one has said "Ohh pretty we needs that because it's a Wonder" No we wanted it to get to US, PS and Rep without the prerequisite technology. We CAN do without the Pyramids but then that would mean sharing more tech with those who will have to war with eventually.

Also I think had we waited on the hill we would have been able to keep the city on Mav Home island because the reinforcements would have allowed for it.

So since Amazon is going for Guilds after Feudalism which is great that will give us knights, longbows and stronger WS. If you want to wait until we have those techs, save up money then lets focus on settling the rest of Bode and Anjen, fortifying against any possible Mav/Mer units on the Star continent. We can also still build military as well and upgrade the units once we have the techs we need.

I think we should make a Big Picture plan on how to attain the Domination Victory. I don't know what VC's the rest are thinking of but I think we should decide on Domination.