AlphaShard
Emperor
@Irgy: Thanks for clearing that up, yeah I thought that's what Bulb and Husch were saying.
Turn Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
Sushi is going to be extremely powerful on this map. Don't underestimate it. There is a ton of seafood going around. Plus, you can double the effectiveness of it when you account for the fact that we deny it to someone else. Not quite, because they can get cerals, but cereals won't be a patch on Sushi. Plus, we can use it to culture war Amazon off two spokes, Sistine or not.
Mining is also extremely powerful for winning a space victory, so I don't understand why people don't want it.
My suggestion is to at least run two merchants and an engineer in wherever it was that someone suggested, and start now during the golden age too. If there's a practical way to generate a pure, guaranteed engineer somewhere and a pure guaranteed merchant somewhere else all the better, but otherwise at least getting one of them would be a start.
Mining is also extremely powerful for winning a space victory, so I don't understand why people don't want it.
My suggestion is to at least run two merchants and an engineer in wherever it was that someone suggested, and start now during the golden age too. If there's a practical way to generate a pure, guaranteed engineer somewhere and a pure guaranteed merchant somewhere else all the better, but otherwise at least getting one of them would be a start.
AlphaShard
Emperor
So Irgy your not against us trying to get Economics before Amazon?
How clear have they made it that they're researching it? We all seem to be aware of it. Although, frankly, I can't actually find any communication from them which says so. Are we going by research visibility from EPs or something?
If they know that we know we're researching it, then it would be an absolute slap in the face. Which is what everyone seems to want to give them at the moment anyway mind you.
Before we get carried away with this though, let me just point something out. Yes Amazon are our biggest rival at the moment. Yes, certain people on the team want to kick them in the soft spots out of spite. And yes, we're going to have to fight them eventually. However, that's exactly the point.
We're going to have to fight them eventually, and it will likely be the fight that decides the game. So let's go into it with the best odds we can possibly manage. That means not fighting both Amazon and CDZ at the same time.
If we could expect to secure CDZ's assistance against Amazon, that would be perfect. But I'm not going to put much stock in that until we've at least heard something back from them about or Quatronia proposal. If CDZ won't help us fight Amazon, then we need to convince Amazon to fight CDZ. And we're not going to do that by treating them like crap all the time. Even if it's what everyone wants to do.
If they know that we know we're researching it, then it would be an absolute slap in the face. Which is what everyone seems to want to give them at the moment anyway mind you.
Before we get carried away with this though, let me just point something out. Yes Amazon are our biggest rival at the moment. Yes, certain people on the team want to kick them in the soft spots out of spite. And yes, we're going to have to fight them eventually. However, that's exactly the point.
We're going to have to fight them eventually, and it will likely be the fight that decides the game. So let's go into it with the best odds we can possibly manage. That means not fighting both Amazon and CDZ at the same time.
If we could expect to secure CDZ's assistance against Amazon, that would be perfect. But I'm not going to put much stock in that until we've at least heard something back from them about or Quatronia proposal. If CDZ won't help us fight Amazon, then we need to convince Amazon to fight CDZ. And we're not going to do that by treating them like crap all the time. Even if it's what everyone wants to do.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Thanks AlphaShard. I wasn't referring to you at all when I said getting carried away at all by the way.
February 26, far out. That's a month ago. And only by pm not email. I think we could reasonably claim that we've completely forgotten about it. Their email about not researching scientific method gives us good reason to switch to economics.
February 26, far out. That's a month ago. And only by pm not email. I think we could reasonably claim that we've completely forgotten about it. Their email about not researching scientific method gives us good reason to switch to economics.
Trystero
Deity
I will go on record as the naysayer. I would be more than happy to end our alliance with Amazon, if I thought we were prepared for the potential consequences. As I argued before, I think the consequences are unclear and risky. I am not opposed to risk, but I think we should be prepared if things go badly. I am not sure that we are.
I understand that people think we are being played for fools, but I can also see that Amazon could be being completely honest with us. Their last message seems pretty reasonable. They disagree with us keeping the city, but would rather focus on our current conflicts. This seems rather pragmatic to me.
However, it seems the rest of the team thinks we have an opportunity to put ourselves in a much stronger position by risking conflict with Amazon, so I will go along with whatever the team decides.
I understand that people think we are being played for fools, but I can also see that Amazon could be being completely honest with us. Their last message seems pretty reasonable. They disagree with us keeping the city, but would rather focus on our current conflicts. This seems rather pragmatic to me.
However, it seems the rest of the team thinks we have an opportunity to put ourselves in a much stronger position by risking conflict with Amazon, so I will go along with whatever the team decides.
I agree with all this. As everyone probably knows by now.
Well, the plan would be to deny any wrong doing, and blame their lack of communication on technology plans and the ridiculous amount of time they're taking to research a fairly critical tech. If it involved acting clearly against their interests there's no way I'd be considering it, but if it was deniable it's not as bad. That's why I was asking when they told us and how clear it is that we know what they're researching.
Hell, two turns to research it... we could send a message saying "Ok, we won't get Scientific Method like we were planning, we'll switch to Economics". Send it near the end of a turn and we'll just about have it before they get around to complaining about it. And then they can't even tell us we didn't tell them we were researching it.
We'd really like to get Economics before the end of the golden age, so if we don't do this we should at least prompt them to hurry the hell up with it.
On the whole I don't know that I actually approve of this course of action at all. If it was just me I wouldn't do it, and I'd probably still vote against it. But that doesn't stop me investigating in an unbiased manner the merits, methods and risks of doing it.
Trystero
Deity
This seems like a really good idea.
Yeah, again, I don't know what Amazon are thinking. This tech alliance really makes no sense to me the way it has played out. As BLubmuz has pointed out numerous times, it's hard to see what advantage is had by 4 teams ending up with rifles/cannons. At the pace our tech research is going we'd all have mech infantry and modern armor by the time the ETTA ends.
Edit: To finish my thought, I find Amazon's plan hard to comprehend, so I am willing to mix things up a little to make stuff happen.
I 've made a test about scimeth and sistine. The message from Ama is . You can build sistine with music, that is needed, all other is the same, they can't read the civped. If you make a start in modern times you couldn't.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Scientific method obsoletes the Temple of Artemis, not the Sistine Chapel. The Chapel never obsoletes. That's consistent with what they said though.
The discussion of switching to economics is just about your posts Husch. I'm not technically actually for it, but if we're doing it I at least know how I plan to handle it diplomatically.
The discussion of switching to economics is just about your posts Husch. I'm not technically actually for it, but if we're doing it I at least know how I plan to handle it diplomatically.
AlphaShard
Emperor
I think when you do those advanced starts it's about the Era your in more then what Tech you have that stops Sistine chaple and that's Advanced starts, not like our situation at all.
So where getting close to end of our GA and we want FM, it's as simple as that. We decided to heed there "Don't tech Sci Method" so we took Economics because it was cheap and we needed the Civic. They may demand the GM though.
So where getting close to end of our GA and we want FM, it's as simple as that. We decided to heed there "Don't tech Sci Method" so we took Economics because it was cheap and we needed the Civic. They may demand the GM though.
I actually have no idea what you mean by this. What are you referring to in particular?
AlphaShard
Emperor
It does, what I want to know is how did they know we switched?
Well they sure are taking there time, so we can't do Sci Method, Economics so all that is left is RR and MS between three teams.
Obivously we can't get away with it now, but can we ask when they will be done with Economics.
Your note of irony is not lost on me either Irgy and I think further fuels the "were being played".
Well they sure are taking there time, so we can't do Sci Method, Economics so all that is left is RR and MS between three teams.
Obivously we can't get away with it now, but can we ask when they will be done with Economics.
Your note of irony is not lost on me either Irgy and I think further fuels the "were being played".
AlphaShard
Emperor
Irgy; PERFECT message to Amazon. 
Also I have to agree with Husch, Alltriia and Bulb. The Amazon's don't feel like equal footing allies anymore. It's not just the Mizar situation but it certainly has become more evident. They have always acted like they were the ones in charge. "Hey CDZ and Quat, give us that GA" <-- Remember that debacle?
Also when we did invade Mav, Quat NEVER talked to us about how to conquer it, but they had NO problems whining to Amazon to come and help. And when Amazon came they told us to basically go help them fight Merlot ASAP. They didn't ask for help, they ORDERED it.
I have to remind all to think about how they knew our Tech situation, first we tech Sci Meth and were told not to. We switch to Economics and then again were told not to. I wonder who's telling them this? Cause I think I know who.
Also I have to agree with Husch, Alltriia and Bulb. The Amazon's don't feel like equal footing allies anymore. It's not just the Mizar situation but it certainly has become more evident. They have always acted like they were the ones in charge. "Hey CDZ and Quat, give us that GA" <-- Remember that debacle?
Also when we did invade Mav, Quat NEVER talked to us about how to conquer it, but they had NO problems whining to Amazon to come and help. And when Amazon came they told us to basically go help them fight Merlot ASAP. They didn't ask for help, they ORDERED it.
I have to remind all to think about how they knew our Tech situation, first we tech Sci Meth and were told not to. We switch to Economics and then again were told not to. I wonder who's telling them this? Cause I think I know who.
