Turn Discussion: Turns 1-19

[Sommerswerd]

It sounds so wrong to me to base your diplomacy so heavily on who you meet first

Still not convinced?... This is what Niklas (Team Cav) had to say in the last game about forming an alliance with the first team they met (Team Kaz):

This is really good news, and a superb payback from our investment in an early scouting boat... They seem to be headed for Writing (just researched AH, researching Pottery now)... We definitely want to tie them into a tech alliance before they meet anyone else.

Notice that Cav met Kaz BEFORE either team even had Writing! And Cav was already talking about locking in the tech alliance. Getting the point here? Waiting until we can tech-trade, or trade anything for that matter is a miscalculation. Meeting first is EVERYTHING... Don't let the opportunity slip away.

 

[remake20]

Fishing next is what I want, not now.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Bottom Line is that Lord Parkin and Niklas both recognize the importance of early contact and early alliances. We should too, and that is why we need Fishing ASAP.

 

[remake20]

Well, I see your point and I think it is a good one, but I think we need to wait just a little bit. Though you've bumped fishing way up in my personal tech path.

 

[Majic]

Should we move scout NE>N? If we see a fish or somethin at least we'll know a workboat isnt a total waste if we find ourselves on a completely isolated island.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Good Idea, but the presence/lack of seafood did not effect my desire for Fishing. However it might help some other people decide, so good point

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK so I took a look again at our Eastern Coast... If you look close, you can see that there is coast for another landmass right next to us. We cant reach it now, but when our capital borders pop, Our boats will be able to cross ocean tiles within our borders. So we will be able to cross the one tile of ocean and reach the next landmass.

 

[remake20]

Wait, so you can cross ocean with WBs if it's in your territory. And has anyone considered WBs may be no good if we have to cross ocean?

 

[Norton I]

We cant reach it now, but when our capital borders pop, Our boats will be able to cross ocean tiles within our borders. So we will be able to cross the one tile of ocean and reach the next landmass.

But that's after the second border pop, right? So, no hurry for the WB for going in that direction.

 

[wideyedwanderer]

If this were a single player game, prioritizing fishing wouldn't make sense right now. But this is a multiplayer game, which changes everything.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Wait, so you can cross ocean with WBs if it's in your territory. And has anyone considered WBs may be no good if we have to cross ocean?

Yes and... Yes...

You ordinarily cannot cross ocean with workboats, however, when the ocean is INSIDE your cultural borders, you can travel on it just like coast.

It is unlikely that we would have to wait for Optics to get off this island. At a minimum, our wb will be able to cross to the landmass to our east when our capitals borders pop enough.

 

[Sommerswerd]

But that's after the second border pop, right? So, no hurry for the WB for going in that direction.

No... look in the SW corner of the capital... there is an ocean tile that will be inside our border on the 1st border pop... moving onto that tile with our wb, will allow us to move SW and cross over to the next landmass very soon. So yes there is a hurry....

But somehow... I suspect that doesn't change your mind

 

[wideyedwanderer]

The reasons fishing is important:

Diplomacy and exploration.

Those who make contact first are more likely to form long-lasting alliances. Those who know things about the map before their opponents are more likely to make better decisions.

 

[remake20]

Yes and... Yes...

You ordinarily cannot cross ocean with workboats, however, when the ocean is INSIDE your cultural borders, you can travel on it just like coast.

It is unlikely that we would have to wait for Optics to get off this island. At a minimum, our wb will be able to cross to the landmass to our east when our capitals borders pop enough.

Good to know.

______________________________

I think meeting people is very important and our economy is very important too. However I saw go AH first, or mining. I think fishing should be next, and there is a chance someone will meet us. I highly doubt someone is already building a WB, but I could be wrong. I don't think by delaying fishing by 4 turns or whatever will give us a humongous as you seemed to put it advantage. I would think the chances are with us of being the first contact of one team, weather they meet us, or we meet them.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Notice that Cav met Kaz BEFORE either team even had Writing! And Cav was already talking about locking in the tech alliance. Getting the point here? Waiting until we can tech-trade, or trade anything for that matter is a miscalculation. Meeting first is EVERYTHING... Don't let the opportunity slip away.

Cav and Kaz both had trade pacts with other civs. That was not the deciding factor.

No... look in the SW corner of the capital... there is an ocean tile that will be inside our border on the 1st border pop... moving onto that tile with our wb, will allow us to move SW and cross over to the next landmass very soon. So yes there is a hurry....

Critical misconception: the capitol needs *two* border pops to put culture on the tile in question. Two. We get fat crosses, not squares.

One more thing: Scout to the very SE tip of the island, to see if this situation exists on the east coast as well as the west...It should DEFINITELY have blown a turn on that forest tile to make sure that 2 SE of that wasn't *also* a potential culture bridge.

But that's after the second border pop, right? So, no hurry for the WB for going in that direction.

I take back what I said on the other thread a little. I'm happy at least one person noticed this .

 

[Sommerswerd]

I see you're really pushing this, but when you make points like this it's hard to believe you've thought it out. AH is key to production in terms of both health and in food to work tiles. I will again point out that we might have nowhere to send the boat until closer to 2000 BC or whenever capitols pop borders a 2nd time. That so many missed *that* is quite dubious, if we're to compete with the caliper of opposition that will be fielding these watermaces and astroprivateers, we have to recognize things like that, ASAP. I'm disappointed the poll went >10 votes deep without careful analysis of either the in-game position or the screen shots.

... Sad you are dissapointed TMIT This post is not expected to change your mind, just to point out that your teammates are not "missing" important points before making arguments...

If you look at the image, I have outlined the borders after the border pop. The blue squares are what I expect will be Coastal tiles, the red "Xs" as you pointed out elsewhere, are ocean tiles that we WILL NOT reach with a single border pop... and the Green Circle is an Ocean tile that WE WILL reach with the 1st border pop. It is SW,W of the capital, and a Coastal tile is possibly SW of it. The green arrow is the path of our Wb to the next landmass... Again, I know that there are other reasons you want to stick with AH besides that, but I wanted to point it out.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

You do *not* know that destination tile is coast...it could just as easily be ocean, but it's true it's possible...just not something that we should rely upon to make a hampering tech switch. Actually on average with a look like this it WON'T be coast, the opposite landmass would have to curve towards us.

 

[remake20]

You do *not* know that destination tile is coast...it could just as easily be ocean, but it's true it's possible...just not something that we should rely upon to make a hampering tech switch. Actually on average with a look like this it WON'T be coast, the opposite landmass would have to curve towards us.

Or like in civ 3 MTDG II the map maker edited it so it's coast.

 

[Sommerswerd]

You do *not* know that destination tile is coast...it could just as easily be ocean, but it's true it's possible...

To belabour the point the tile IS coast. I KNOW it is coast. You can see that it is coast clearly when you are logged in. It does not come through as well in the screenshot, but as with all blacked out tiles, you can just make out the edge, and it is that lighter, brighter blue that indicates a coastal tile.

Anyway... I have ended the turn. We will see the tile fully in a few turns when our borders expand. Then we can reasses.

 

[remake20]

You know, no discussion about the next scout move, I'll vote N, because then we might find a passage to another island.

EDIT: I looked at the game and that IS coast. Either that or some weird lighter colored ocean.