Seeing as the AI generally prioritises math, IW and monarchy above CoL anyways we can quite easily make that after completing Alpha. Another useful trading chip we could research is aesthetics. I think our biggest chip will be HBR.
Turnsession 5 Research Discussion
- Thread starter NZL
- Start date
That's the answer I've been trying to get too.
It really should be about where we want the next 100 or 200 turns to go. Builder vs warmonger, and CE vs SE, and wonders or not, are all big picture things which vastly change the value of techs and builds.Provolution
Sage of Quatronia
I would support Aesthetics, since S. Paya and Statue of Zeus has gold and ivory making double speed to build them. This is our main window of opportunity with the absence of marble and stone. We can then trade aesthetics for other techs etc.
I think our short term strategy is to prepare for war with Spain, long ahead of their UUs and UBs, as well as making sure all possible trades are done before we kill them off, utilizing our Alphabet monopoly.
I think our short term strategy is to prepare for war with Spain, long ahead of their UUs and UBs, as well as making sure all possible trades are done before we kill them off, utilizing our Alphabet monopoly.
NZL
Proudly Flemish
That's the answer I've been trying to get too.
All that is new Faction Platforms material no? Since there will be new PF elections soon..
Lord Civius
Emperor
The reasoning behind the war with Spain is opportunity. She is weak regarding her lack of copper and horses and we are strong because of our early Horse Archers. We currently have all the techs we need to take her out so I disagree that (a) we should wait to expand before we go to war, and (b) we should make a beeline for CoL. Alphabet seems a much better choice as we will gain a religion from our war with Hatty.
How do we know Spain lacks copper and horses? We don't even know the location of her cities! We certainly don't know what troops she has. For all we know her capital is built on copper and she has spears in every city! Horse archers have their uses, but not against spears.
If indeed she lacks both of these resources - and some scouting will tell us - and has nothing but archers, then indeed the opportunity to attack her early is there. But are we better off attacking early, or building more infrastructure (and strength) and attacking her when we can take her out in just a few turns? There's been talk of a two-stage war; the first stage merely steal a worker and pillage her back to the stone age; a second, much later, more bloody stage when we annex her. I'm not sure if the opportunity to steal one or two workers is worth the trouble of having an enemy-for-life (short as we plan Hatty's life to be) on our doorstep.
If Hatty is indeed weak and we can annex her all at once and in the near future, I'm fine with that. I guess all I'm trying to say is an awful lot of our plans are built on speculation - wishful thinking in some cases, I believe - and we could be royally screwing ourselves if circumstances aren't as we imagine them to be.
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
If Hatty has horses, it won't matter too much. Horse Archers can beat War Chariots any day, and in fact, would likely be easier to beat in cities. Given that the copper very near her hasn't been settled yet (presumably, looking at her city placement), it's fairly safe to assume she doesn't have copper. However, we'll find that out very soon.
Lord Civius
Emperor
I am going by the espionage assessments (hasn't adopted slavery, took the Dye city instead of copper which she would have done had she researched BW, etc.) I agree I may have overspoke, I should have said "more then likely doesn't have....". I happen to agree with you that we should not have a proxy war for worker/pillage. We either go for her throat (if she doesn't have copper) or wait til we have Iron for Swords if she does.
Someday I'm going to have to look into this love for currency thing. I think an experiment may be in order, unless there is already a strategy article.
Spoiler :
The same can be said about your love for (Code of) Laws
Interesting discussion on the use of courthouses
The same can be said about your love for (Code of) Laws
Interesting discussion on the use of courthouses
It works even in comparison with markets, slightly more expensive to build but a substantially better outcome.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2006
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- 1,160
CoL just makes more and more sense, honestly. Let's poll it. I think everyone here has voice enough arguments for it. The poll should say something to the effect of:
After Alphabet, what should we research next?
Code of Laws
Mathematics (going then for Construction or Currency)
Aesthetics
Monarchy
Other
Allow it to run for a few days, then allow plurality to dictate.
[scratch]IMHO, Code of Laws is makeing more and more sense. Then with Aesthetics, we can trade even more.[/scratch]
MONARCHY!!!! For Personal reasons...
One problem with the whole trading argument though...Outside of Hatty, we only know of Lincoln, and it will be a while until we meet the Inca (the goldish border).
What's North of Lincoln's lands? Oceans? Again, sorry that I can't access Photobucket
Anyway, let's poll it and get on with the game
Lord Civius
Emperor
I say we wait until after the turn session to poll it. By then we should know for sure if we are to invade Spain. As it is still speculation until we confirm she has no spears. If we cannot invade then I will jump ship to CoL. If we are to invade then it would not be first on my list.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
Looks like Mali's border, Inca is a bright yellow colour, Mali as a brown yellow border line.
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
Also, we will see what we can trade for after we get Alphabet, which might influence our decision.
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
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You may be right...I really need to download the latest save and check it out on my computer rather than via the screenshots.
Mali is a better trade partner. Huayna is someone I try to "keep small" in my games.
I would be fine with polling after the Alphabet session.
AluminumKnight
Conquistador
EDIT: Disregard what I said, I forgot about unrestricted leaders.
Remember that Mansa Musa is almost definitely not the leader of the Mali, so it might be someone like Toku, who will not trade with us (ha, the irony of meeting Tokugawa when we're Japanese!)
Seidrik_The_Gray
Seidrik The Gray
- Joined
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Farquawd! You're right, bah...maybe it will be the Lovely Elizabeth who trades your the clothes off her back for your shiney rocks? God, I hope it's not Montezuma or Shaka, lol!
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
A thought on our ability to tech trade with Alphabet.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember that an AI will usualy only trade techs that it knows at least one civ already has, it likes to keep hold of its monopolies. Looking at espieonage pt distribution it look like neither Lincoln or hatty has made contact with anybody else, if this is the case they may not be so forthcoming with trading.
Personally I am for mathmatics after trading, but that is mainly because i see early war, even one without taking cities as the way to go. Also Mathmatics gives us a lot of flexability (3 strong and usefull techs behind it).
Ps. I think we should take bets on the identity of the mystery Civ. I will give a great stead toi whoever can correctly guess the civ and the leader
I may be wrong but I seem to remember that an AI will usualy only trade techs that it knows at least one civ already has, it likes to keep hold of its monopolies. Looking at espieonage pt distribution it look like neither Lincoln or hatty has made contact with anybody else, if this is the case they may not be so forthcoming with trading.
Personally I am for mathmatics after trading, but that is mainly because i see early war, even one without taking cities as the way to go. Also Mathmatics gives us a lot of flexability (3 strong and usefull techs behind it).
Ps. I think we should take bets on the identity of the mystery Civ. I will give a great stead toi whoever can correctly guess the civ and the leader
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