dretnoth
Warlord
This thread is about Tweaking Dissent Mechanic. Stuff are for v26+ so don’t hope them for 25-release.
(On Xyth suggestion I put out nearly everything about Dissent, rethink it again, and put to this treat for better finding. All feel free to join brain storming.)
Main purpose is help empires that go down from repeating civil wars. Plus reconsidering the effect between city that are in middle empire compare to the on edge of enemy.
1. Direct Government response on Civil Wars
When civil war come out there is contra action[event] based on government civic. This event affect the cities that dint join the revolution. [it can be called 'contra revolution effect' or 'after revolution effect' or just 'Civil War Response']
Chiefdom - Temporal all cities: (+1 happy face per city * Era * (for every city size of 10)); Temporal: +1 Diplomatic relations whit others (+1 for chiefs)
Monarchy - Temporal all cities: 'Military police' effect doubled; Temporal capital: additional +25% military unit production
Theocracy - All cities: Dissent is reduced to loyal instead stable; Temporal capital: +50% spy defense and; Temporal all cities: +100% Inquisitor production
Aristocracy - (Free) full draft in capital; Temporal capital: +25% GP production; Temporal: +1 spy point for any settled GP
Confederation - Temporal all cities: (Maintenance cost turned(or added) to Anty dissent (decrase)) {Former
No maintenance in city)}, Temporal capital: +100% spy point production
Democracy - All cities: 5%-25% of foreign culture are converted to you own (Prioritizes barbarian); Temporal capital: +50% non military unit production
2. Military police.
Units stationary/ fortified in city reducing dissent [ ( 1 * per unit * per Era) * %modifiers from civic, tents, traits and events(spy, world, religion) + ] (+1 for: Constabulary, Jail, Courthouse)
-% of investment in spy point production by overall empire setting shall increase the effect of military police (Like +1 for unit for 10% of invest)
-then production of spy point by city as build shall act as something like Martial Law increasing the effect of military police (Another +1 for unit)
2A. Logistic (Concentration) cost for unit.
Contra to Military police if on same tile is more units that shall be okay, and then they shall pay extra for logistic difficulty. (Of course cities, encamps [Fort, Fortresses] Shall increase the limit before payment.) [ ( [Base]2 +Map Size +Map Speed )] Double the value for City, or Encamp. Triple it if Fort, or Fortress.
3. Steam releasing events from Accumulated Dissent
A event that can reduce the dissent by causing a bad event. Seriousness and size can be set on level of dissent and map settings
Like local bank robbery; units strike; units damage; improvements lost; production stop; spread a pollution (Tile get -1 for all until cleaned by workers) (If it will exists); causing unhealthiness, unhappiness, (+arrests); barbarians rise near city or just move to unoccupied fort; Population decrease, that can go to near barbarian city as new forces; increase maintenance costs for city; export dissent to other city; even that can be solved by money or spy point; …
4. Dissent Accumulation (Ignore if already reworked or solved)
Concept of Dissent is good but current formula dint go well for old and developed cities: that are practically immune, and new colonies already filled whit loot of foreigner culture. Even worse for Large Conquered Cities. The formula work whit static values from food, happiness, health, culture level, religion, buildings, civic and number of Cities. All those are static and only modifier is population nationality modifier. (+ little stuff)
For moment just think about that nationally modifier are exchanged by city size.
Nationality give a value based on %Yours, Allies, Neutral, Hostile, Barbarian.
Part of accumulating dissent per turn are exported via trade routes to other cities. (priories for yours and Loyal, stable)
50% of War Wearing are going Directly to Dissent. (Or based on Military trait)
Instant Dissent (maybe modified by Civic), from Spy missions like propaganda. Events like: you raze a city, or declare war. Spreading Religion. Change of Civic or Tenets. (- Dissent) for events like liberating city or Wined War.
Removing cultural level as Dissent solver.
5. Level of Pollution
Imagine a mechanic when unhealthiness +(Battle in city, bombard and other events) are collected and too much of it will result in increase Pollution Level. Decreased can be slowly by healthiness (+recycle plant), or 'pollution events' that will spread pollution to work tiles (-1 all until cleared for every size of pollution on title), or increase dissent, or others…
6. Arrested Citizen versus Angry.
A Change to city resistance feature, from conquering to it pacification.
Normally all citizens are unhappy during occupation, causing the city go to total starvation. When the city are pacified there often are not enough space to work outside city. Both variations cause massive dissent on its own and culture dissent its chapter on its own.
Resistance time shall be something like restore minimal order a logistic to city to make it function as a base. Resistance timer shall be based on (size of city /5) + (map size or game speed [if city not barbarian] + others) or (size of city/5 +1 for other empire +/-map speed)
But to get all citizen to citizen back to work is something other. So instead of them be "Angry" (from resistance, unhappiness, or we want join motherland) or be simple unemployed by cultural level 1 or lover, they shall be "Resisting" or "Arrest". Those citizens consume only one food and cost one extra gold. It take one turn to transform another Arrested citizen to working. Unhappiness take primary from Arrested to make them Angry.
(normal Citizen: [Consume 2 food])) (Arrested Citizen: -1 gold, +5 dissent [Consume 1 food])) (Angry Citizen: +10 dissent [Consume 2 food]))
(Example city of size 10 are pacified bud have stats -4 unhappiness. It take 9 turns to rehabilitee 9 arrested citizen.
So the city have 1 working, 5 arrested, and 4 Angry citizens.
On the next turn 1 arrested got rehabilitee and stats drop to -2 unhappiness (for reasons).
So the city have 2 working, 6 arrested, and 2 angry citizens.)
7. Instant City raze option changed to buildable option.
Or more specific if you chose to raze city it will not be instant. But it will take turns to wipe out population. So the city is marked as 'Annihilation' or others. The city will already generate large amount of Dissent that can be exported to occupant territory. Or just have a chance to revolt if presented army are not enof.
Let's say it will reduce population one per turn.
Or it can be presented on build bar and when fill city will lose level. (It can be boosted by starvation by transferring the value of made steps.) For each size of city require same amount of turn/steps. This can be boosted by size of occupation army * era. Artillery count extra.
(So if you have city by size 12 and occupation army 20, it will go down by one every turn.)
8. Minimal field of workers operations for City. Or 'Minimal empire border range'
Over taken of map and pushing cultural borders are priority of generated culture. But nobody like when a distant city stealing map around you city and the city go to starvation or worse. Same when city is captured and for low you culture high opposite city dint have any tiles and go to starvation.
So how about if city are not on 'Resistance status/Timer' it shall contain at last one ring around itself. [8 work tiles] (Forts, fortress have its owner if occupied)
This security effect for 'Minimal empire border range' can be extended to 2 (standard city range) by treaties like peace, open border. But conflicted tiles between two too close cities are on they own to solve.
9. Event when you city revolt
When city revolt (and former owner exist), and it's have units on here, the:
(A)-then if there are more units that city size there is 20% chance for rebellion to fail (+20% if size of garrison double the city size, +20% if triple, but from quad and higher only 80%) Failed rebellion triggering and special event:
=Raze the city cause - temporally 2 unhappy in all you cities, temporally -1 diplomatic relation whit foreigner empire if the city contain more that 10% they culture, (off course 'you razed our city' it they has been them)
=Drastically punishment cause - reduce this city population by 25% (min 1), destroy 25% of their culture - /if size higher that 1/
(B)-if rebellion are not stop and the garrison unit, if they level are 3+ then there are 30% chance to escape wounded to capital (10% for another level) and 20% chance to die. (Missing unit will be replenish by generating)
10. A suggestion for Worship tenets:
(new description) [current description] {former description}
Idolatry: (Triple instant dissent from change Tenets and Civic ) [Golden age length reduced by 50%; +25% production required to construct wonders]
Sacrifice: (Double dissent from Unhealthiness) [No food storage after growth; Construction of Wonder Sacrifice 1 population]
Ceremony: (+25% maintenance from number of cities; +25% support cost for units; Double dissent from Unhappiness) {Old: +25% maintenance from number of cities; -25% wealth in capital;}
Meditation: (-25% of free units; -50% police force [units reduce dissent]; Double dissent from War) {Old: +25% production required to train military units; +100% war weariness;}
Prayer: (+25% dissent generation; +50% chance for Dissent and Pollution events [Actually that will speed up the decrease of dissent and pollution due bad events.]; +100% effect and reduction on those events [Well-- horsehockys will hapen.] ) {Old: -50% Great Doctor Emergence; -50% Great Scientist Emergence;}
Apostasy: (Double instant dissent from diplomacy events and 'bad reputation events' [city razing, spy propaganda on you city, …]) [No state religion; -2 attitude from civilization whit a state religion]
11. some extra stuff That dint need to be about dissent at all. Or have been throw away to pick up.
Barbarian culture shall not cause unhappiness from 'we want join our home land' in cities.
[unbalanced] If you have trade route to city of empire that have tech that you dint have then it can be imported via trade route by one point per route, randomly to any he have and you dint. Multiple by treaties.
[Maybe obsolete] Any Conquering of City shall modify its national composition of population. When city are conquered and resistance time are passed out part of previous culture in city shall be converted to you own. (Priority to barbarian, and we talking about the numbers of generated culture not nationality rate of citizens) Or the foreigner culture (or at last barbarians) shall little by little turn to you own. Or this turn out shall occur when empire fall and his culture turn into barbarian.
[Obsolete] City on Resistance Effect (after conquering or similar) shall have dissent meter frozen.
[Maybe obsolete] City that decrease its size on starvation have 0% reserve of food. Its shall be at last 20%. (+10% for granary, (fish market?) supermarket)
(On Xyth suggestion I put out nearly everything about Dissent, rethink it again, and put to this treat for better finding. All feel free to join brain storming.)
Main purpose is help empires that go down from repeating civil wars. Plus reconsidering the effect between city that are in middle empire compare to the on edge of enemy.
1. Direct Government response on Civil Wars
When civil war come out there is contra action[event] based on government civic. This event affect the cities that dint join the revolution. [it can be called 'contra revolution effect' or 'after revolution effect' or just 'Civil War Response']
Chiefdom - Temporal all cities: (+1 happy face per city * Era * (for every city size of 10)); Temporal: +1 Diplomatic relations whit others (+1 for chiefs)
Monarchy - Temporal all cities: 'Military police' effect doubled; Temporal capital: additional +25% military unit production
Theocracy - All cities: Dissent is reduced to loyal instead stable; Temporal capital: +50% spy defense and; Temporal all cities: +100% Inquisitor production
Aristocracy - (Free) full draft in capital; Temporal capital: +25% GP production; Temporal: +1 spy point for any settled GP
Confederation - Temporal all cities: (Maintenance cost turned(or added) to Anty dissent (decrase)) {Former
No maintenance in city)}, Temporal capital: +100% spy point productionDemocracy - All cities: 5%-25% of foreign culture are converted to you own (Prioritizes barbarian); Temporal capital: +50% non military unit production
2. Military police.
Units stationary/ fortified in city reducing dissent [ ( 1 * per unit * per Era) * %modifiers from civic, tents, traits and events(spy, world, religion) + ] (+1 for: Constabulary, Jail, Courthouse)
-% of investment in spy point production by overall empire setting shall increase the effect of military police (Like +1 for unit for 10% of invest)
-then production of spy point by city as build shall act as something like Martial Law increasing the effect of military police (Another +1 for unit)
2A. Logistic (Concentration) cost for unit.
Contra to Military police if on same tile is more units that shall be okay, and then they shall pay extra for logistic difficulty. (Of course cities, encamps [Fort, Fortresses] Shall increase the limit before payment.) [ ( [Base]2 +Map Size +Map Speed )] Double the value for City, or Encamp. Triple it if Fort, or Fortress.
3. Steam releasing events from Accumulated Dissent
A event that can reduce the dissent by causing a bad event. Seriousness and size can be set on level of dissent and map settings
Like local bank robbery; units strike; units damage; improvements lost; production stop; spread a pollution (Tile get -1 for all until cleaned by workers) (If it will exists); causing unhealthiness, unhappiness, (+arrests); barbarians rise near city or just move to unoccupied fort; Population decrease, that can go to near barbarian city as new forces; increase maintenance costs for city; export dissent to other city; even that can be solved by money or spy point; …
4. Dissent Accumulation (Ignore if already reworked or solved)
Concept of Dissent is good but current formula dint go well for old and developed cities: that are practically immune, and new colonies already filled whit loot of foreigner culture. Even worse for Large Conquered Cities. The formula work whit static values from food, happiness, health, culture level, religion, buildings, civic and number of Cities. All those are static and only modifier is population nationality modifier. (+ little stuff)
For moment just think about that nationally modifier are exchanged by city size.
Nationality give a value based on %Yours, Allies, Neutral, Hostile, Barbarian.
Part of accumulating dissent per turn are exported via trade routes to other cities. (priories for yours and Loyal, stable)
50% of War Wearing are going Directly to Dissent. (Or based on Military trait)
Instant Dissent (maybe modified by Civic), from Spy missions like propaganda. Events like: you raze a city, or declare war. Spreading Religion. Change of Civic or Tenets. (- Dissent) for events like liberating city or Wined War.
Removing cultural level as Dissent solver.
5. Level of Pollution
Imagine a mechanic when unhealthiness +(Battle in city, bombard and other events) are collected and too much of it will result in increase Pollution Level. Decreased can be slowly by healthiness (+recycle plant), or 'pollution events' that will spread pollution to work tiles (-1 all until cleared for every size of pollution on title), or increase dissent, or others…
6. Arrested Citizen versus Angry.
A Change to city resistance feature, from conquering to it pacification.
Normally all citizens are unhappy during occupation, causing the city go to total starvation. When the city are pacified there often are not enough space to work outside city. Both variations cause massive dissent on its own and culture dissent its chapter on its own.
Resistance time shall be something like restore minimal order a logistic to city to make it function as a base. Resistance timer shall be based on (size of city /5) + (map size or game speed [if city not barbarian] + others) or (size of city/5 +1 for other empire +/-map speed)
But to get all citizen to citizen back to work is something other. So instead of them be "Angry" (from resistance, unhappiness, or we want join motherland) or be simple unemployed by cultural level 1 or lover, they shall be "Resisting" or "Arrest". Those citizens consume only one food and cost one extra gold. It take one turn to transform another Arrested citizen to working. Unhappiness take primary from Arrested to make them Angry.
(normal Citizen: [Consume 2 food])) (Arrested Citizen: -1 gold, +5 dissent [Consume 1 food])) (Angry Citizen: +10 dissent [Consume 2 food]))
(Example city of size 10 are pacified bud have stats -4 unhappiness. It take 9 turns to rehabilitee 9 arrested citizen.
So the city have 1 working, 5 arrested, and 4 Angry citizens.
On the next turn 1 arrested got rehabilitee and stats drop to -2 unhappiness (for reasons).
So the city have 2 working, 6 arrested, and 2 angry citizens.)
7. Instant City raze option changed to buildable option.
Or more specific if you chose to raze city it will not be instant. But it will take turns to wipe out population. So the city is marked as 'Annihilation' or others. The city will already generate large amount of Dissent that can be exported to occupant territory. Or just have a chance to revolt if presented army are not enof.
Let's say it will reduce population one per turn.
Or it can be presented on build bar and when fill city will lose level. (It can be boosted by starvation by transferring the value of made steps.) For each size of city require same amount of turn/steps. This can be boosted by size of occupation army * era. Artillery count extra.
(So if you have city by size 12 and occupation army 20, it will go down by one every turn.)
Spoiler [Old version] :
8. Minimal field of workers operations for City. Or 'Minimal empire border range'
Over taken of map and pushing cultural borders are priority of generated culture. But nobody like when a distant city stealing map around you city and the city go to starvation or worse. Same when city is captured and for low you culture high opposite city dint have any tiles and go to starvation.
So how about if city are not on 'Resistance status/Timer' it shall contain at last one ring around itself. [8 work tiles] (Forts, fortress have its owner if occupied)
This security effect for 'Minimal empire border range' can be extended to 2 (standard city range) by treaties like peace, open border. But conflicted tiles between two too close cities are on they own to solve.
9. Event when you city revolt
When city revolt (and former owner exist), and it's have units on here, the:
(A)-then if there are more units that city size there is 20% chance for rebellion to fail (+20% if size of garrison double the city size, +20% if triple, but from quad and higher only 80%) Failed rebellion triggering and special event:
=Raze the city cause - temporally 2 unhappy in all you cities, temporally -1 diplomatic relation whit foreigner empire if the city contain more that 10% they culture, (off course 'you razed our city' it they has been them)
=Drastically punishment cause - reduce this city population by 25% (min 1), destroy 25% of their culture - /if size higher that 1/
(B)-if rebellion are not stop and the garrison unit, if they level are 3+ then there are 30% chance to escape wounded to capital (10% for another level) and 20% chance to die. (Missing unit will be replenish by generating)
10. A suggestion for Worship tenets:
(new description) [current description] {former description}
Idolatry: (Triple instant dissent from change Tenets and Civic ) [Golden age length reduced by 50%; +25% production required to construct wonders]
Sacrifice: (Double dissent from Unhealthiness) [No food storage after growth; Construction of Wonder Sacrifice 1 population]
Ceremony: (+25% maintenance from number of cities; +25% support cost for units; Double dissent from Unhappiness) {Old: +25% maintenance from number of cities; -25% wealth in capital;}
Meditation: (-25% of free units; -50% police force [units reduce dissent]; Double dissent from War) {Old: +25% production required to train military units; +100% war weariness;}
Prayer: (+25% dissent generation; +50% chance for Dissent and Pollution events [Actually that will speed up the decrease of dissent and pollution due bad events.]; +100% effect and reduction on those events [Well-- horsehockys will hapen.] ) {Old: -50% Great Doctor Emergence; -50% Great Scientist Emergence;}
Apostasy: (Double instant dissent from diplomacy events and 'bad reputation events' [city razing, spy propaganda on you city, …]) [No state religion; -2 attitude from civilization whit a state religion]
11. some extra stuff That dint need to be about dissent at all. Or have been throw away to pick up.
Barbarian culture shall not cause unhappiness from 'we want join our home land' in cities.
[unbalanced] If you have trade route to city of empire that have tech that you dint have then it can be imported via trade route by one point per route, randomly to any he have and you dint. Multiple by treaties.
[Maybe obsolete] Any Conquering of City shall modify its national composition of population. When city are conquered and resistance time are passed out part of previous culture in city shall be converted to you own. (Priority to barbarian, and we talking about the numbers of generated culture not nationality rate of citizens) Or the foreigner culture (or at last barbarians) shall little by little turn to you own. Or this turn out shall occur when empire fall and his culture turn into barbarian.
[Obsolete] City on Resistance Effect (after conquering or similar) shall have dissent meter frozen.
[Maybe obsolete] City that decrease its size on starvation have 0% reserve of food. Its shall be at last 20%. (+10% for granary, (fish market?) supermarket)
