[R&F] Twilight Valor:+200% overflow on 65 prod ships!

[Lily_Lancer]

In the March patch, Twilight Valor begins to work for naval melee units. With the +100% prod card, we can get +200% prod for galleys.

Moreover,
+250% for Norway
+275% for Norway w. God of Forge.


Now Norway forests are 750% more useful than its actual use with all the above and Magnus.

1 Tree=1,000+ prod~=1 Spaceport or 1 Space Project or 1 Late-game Wonder

For Norway Civilization, a seashore tree yields more than a Forbidden Palace, a Great Zimbabwe or so. That's fantastic! A city with 10 trees will soon become a "wonderland".

Hope the developers to fix the chop prod yield thing( Though they never seems interested on it, instead they're making tree chops more and more powerful in every patch.)

Turn out that I confused Twilight Valor with Letter of Marque... Sad.

 

[Morningcalm]

Video of Wonder construction using the techniques described above please!

(I don't really understand overflow still)

 

[Tech Osen]

God of the forge works on ships?

 

[acluewithout]

That’s very funny. Who knew Norway was so good?

Does overflow actually need to be nerfed. I deliberately don’t use because it feels like an exploit. But then, that’s just it. I can just choose not to use it. It doesn’t actually impact my games.

If people like playing around with these mechanics - either for fast victory or just for fun - then that’s fine, isn’t it?

 

[Civ_Gumby]

Video of Wonder construction using the techniques described above please!

(I don't really understand overflow still)

You queue up the galley, work on it until there is 1 turn left and chop a forest with all of the policies in place. Since you chopped while building the galley the galley will finish instantly and the left over product can be used for something else, the point is you get the bonus modifiers. Wall chopping is very common as well. The point is you get an extra % of hammers that you wouldn't get normally.

I'm surprised they didn't nerf magnus this patch, by far the best governor.

 

[Athmos]

the issue is not overflow, it's the fact that it uses the current build multiplier rather than the one for what it's applied to.

 

[UWHabs]

the issue is not overflow, it's the fact that it uses the current build multiplier rather than the one for what it's applied to.

Well, it's the fact that all the modified yields go into overflow. I still don't understand how they don't just do the simple fix - before storing "overflow" yields, they divide back out all the multipliers, so if you chop a 64/65 galley, one hammer goes into the galley, and whatever else from the chop goes unmodified into overflow to be applied to the next build. Given how many other "user-complaints" they fixed in the recent patch, I'm surprised they didn't fix that one.

 

[RealHuhn]

That’s very funny. Who knew Norway was so good?

Does overflow actually need to be nerfed. I deliberately don’t use because it feels like an exploit. But then, that’s just it. I can just choose not to use it. It doesn’t actually impact my games.

If people like playing around with these mechanics - either for fast victory or just for fun - then that’s fine, isn’t it?

Oh yes, it does need to be nerfed because you simply cannot avoid it.
Everytime you chop something with a policy boost you get the game breaking overflow. Hey look, I can place a district in 1 turn after chopping a boosted wall for defense because the AI actually caught me by surprise!!! I'm such a great player !!!! Thank you for this great mechanic -_-

 

[Athmos]

It's been going on as it is since the original release. I tend to think that the current working is intentional.

 

[Uberfrog]

Given how many other "user-complaints" they fixed in the recent patch, I'm surprised they didn't fix that one.

My impression is that this isn’t really a top issue for most players. I can understand wanting it fixed for multiplayer, but in single player most players are probably blissfully unaware of this exploit, and those who are aware of it either happily use it or are free to choose not to.

 

[Monthar]

Twilight Valor: All units +5 Combat Strength while making a melee attack. BUT: Cannot heal outside your territory.

What does this have to do with production and overflow?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

What does this have to do with production and overflow?

Thanks. Turn out that I misunderstood the changelog and confused it with letter of Marque.
I never used the +5 strength one...

 

[Athmos]

What does this have to do with production and overflow?

Actually yes, I didn't check before but Twilight valor is not supposed to provide any production bonus now does it ?

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It's been going on as it is since the original release. I tend to think that the current working is intentional.

That's very possible.
Let's be honest, exploits are fun and you always have the option to not use them. It might be problematic in multiplayer games, but in turn based strategy games like Civ most people stick to singleplayer.

 

[criZp]

They don't fix it because it's an exploit that no one is forcing you to use, and the AI don't use it anyway

 

[Athmos]

The AI doesn't plan it, but in my experience they chop pretty much everything (and farm hover, sigh), and since they use policy card they'll sometime have production multipliers, and the overflow will apply to the next item*. So they are bound to benefit from it from time to time. And once again, the way the overflow is computed is independent of the chop/harvest mechanics, it's just that instant production (from chop/harvest but any other source would do) allows you to plan for overshooting production target by that much more.

Anyway, so long as there is overflow in the game, there will be overflow manipulations. And not having overflow in the game makes it overly micro intensive (as you have to manipulate each tile each turn not to waste production), the game is clearly much much better with it (Civ 3 offers you a nice alternative if you think overflow conservation is a bad idea). But the way it's computed in the game, i.e. not divided by the previous item then multiplied bu the one applying to the next before being applied, is sure gamey.
However it's been identified since game release, and it has been reported in civ4 and fixed there years and years ago. Which makes me think they simply don't care about it.

The interface is not displaying prod multiplier anywhere anyway, and it certainly look like most player didn't even notice anything before some posts on the forum made the value of chopping and the overflow mechanism more visible. Many forumers are still calling it the "limes exploit", which seems to suggest that many don't even properly understand how it works yet, since you can use it with any production multiplier, limes and ship production ones only being the high profile ones since they are the strongest in the game (+100%).

I don't even think it's a problem in multiplayer to be honest. Everyone knows how it works, Worker/Builder micro, including chops and their timing, has always been a core skill in playing civ (well, since civ 4 at least).


*And really, that's not a valid argument. the AI is also very poor at tactical combat, and abysmal at district/wonder planning compared to any player. Does it means thinking about your unit moves and planning your cities is cheating ?

 

[Turrdy]

Turn out that I confused Twilight Valor to Letters of Marque... Sad.

So do Naval Melee still work with Letters of Marque? Or does the "begins to work for naval melee units" only apply to Twilight Valor?
The problem with Dark Age policies is that you can only have them during a dark age and not every dark age policy card is available in every era (Letters of Marque only Renaissance-Modern, so no Atomic/Information era space port boost).

 

[Uberfrog]

The problem with Dark Age policies is that you can only have them during a dark age and not every dark age policy card is available in every era (Letters of Marque only Renaissance-Modern, so no Atomic/Information era space port boost).

Based on Game Era though, not your tech era. If you’re producing enough Science it’s not unusual to be getting Spaceports when the game is still in the pre-Atomic era, even if you’re not Lily Lancer.

 

[Arent11]

Hope the developers to fix the chop prod yield thing( Though they never seems interested on it, instead they're making tree chops more and more powerful in every patch.)

I'm happy to see that even you are calling for a fix now. In single player this is not so bad, but in multiplayer you can not easily control whether someone abuses such stuff.

An easy fix would be that chopping doesn't yield anything & doesn't cost a builder charge.

 

[RealHuhn]

Just don't let multipliers influence the outcome of a chop (except for +100% from Magnus). Done. Easy fix. It's powerful enough without it and overflow would still work.