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Twillight of Byzantium

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Yoda Power, May 7, 2006.

  1. Mesodius

    Mesodius Warmonger

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    For anyone still confused, the pediaicons.txt file goes in the "Text" folder, which is located inside the "Twilight of Byzantium" folder, replacing another file in there of the same name. Just putting it inside the "Twilight of Byzantium" folder isn't enough.
     
  2. Partizanac

    Partizanac Serbian Ambassador in CFC

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  3. Varlin Saliptor

    Varlin Saliptor Does not hate the future.

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    i second this question.
     
  4. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    I do too;)

    I really want to make the update, but testing Lotm and working on my own personal mod takes up most of my civ-time. I'm not going to tell you any dates, but I have something in mind.
     
  5. Partizanac

    Partizanac Serbian Ambassador in CFC

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  6. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Just had a look at it, looks VERY promising.

    Nevertheless, two comments after checking with the editor:

    First and foremost, Florence doesn't work for the AI. If a treasure appears in the capital, it must be picked up by a unit and returned. Thus, that wonder must not be in Florence, but Pisa. The easiest way would be to require Horses in radius, there are not too many places else in reach, and those wouldn't hurt either.

    And second, some minor nitpicks with the Western part of the map (the Eastern one looks perfect to me). Like Valetta being in the NE of Malta, and it was founded by the St. Johns order - to honor Grandmaster John de la Valette, as late as1566 (old capital would be Mdina). Or, Mahdia in Tunesia is missing (Ifriq capital, political centre of Tunesia area before Tunis). And, are you sure Ljubliana was Bosnian? Sardinia - Genuese (IIRC it was under the influence of Genoa and Pisa, but remained somewhat independent until it came to Arragon)?

    But the map issues are really minor ones; great work so far!
     
  7. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Partizanac: Sorry Serbia is not intented to be playable.

    Doc: I'm not sure you are right on the Florence thing, I never recorded any problems with it.

    I didn't knew about Valetta, thanks for pointing it out.
    Tunis was, according to my own research, the Hafsid capital.
    Ljubliana has never been Bosnian, it was Hungarian at the time. I just didn't want to put in Hungary.
    Sardinia was not Genoese true, but it has been before, and again I did not want to put in Aragon.

    I decided to value playability>historical accuracy.
     
  8. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Yoda, I am 100% sure about that treasure issue. You score when those things get moved onto a victory location (or capital), but not when they appear there. That was knowns since C3C came out, due to the pretty common strategy of jumping the capital in the AoDiscovery Conquest. They just pile up.

    Agree on Laibach + Sardinia. And Tunis was indeed the Hafsid capital; it's just that Mahdia still was clearly the 3rd important Tunisian city (after Tunis and Kairouan) in the timespan of the scenario.
     
  9. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Oh but I'm know you are rigth about the fact that they have to move it out and in, but in my experience they do that.
     
  10. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Unfortunately not, from my experience. And I spent pretty much time with a German fantasy scenario (Aventurien) based on the ruleplaying game Das Schwarze Auge, which employed the very same principle. And the AI did not get it.
    The solution here was to require the FP to build that particular structure, btw.
     
  11. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Thats really odd. Because I know I have seen them move out and in:p

    You didn't play the game right? If I get any reports from any games I will take a closer look, but I'm not convinced yet. I have tested this scneario quite a lot, and it has never been a problem.
     
  12. Doc Tsiolkovski

    Doc Tsiolkovski Deity

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    Just watched for a while, in DEBUG. Seems like due to the border location of Florence, it does work out well here. Reason is simple: The AI always patrols its borders, and often enough picks up the treasure with that particular unit...and subsequently returns it.

    But, we've seen that often enough in the other scen, if the capital is deep inside their lands, they never have units leaving the capital.
     
  13. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Interesting, then we are kinda both right I guess. No need to change it though.
     
  14. Mesodius

    Mesodius Warmonger

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    Well, I finally got time to finish my game as the Venetians. Towards the end, I was gaining quickly on Ottomans due to conquest and treasure, but BARELY lost when time ran out in great anguish as I was defeated by a measely 312 victory points! Gah!

    If I played a second time (or had one more turn), I am sure it would go much better. A few points about the scenario:

    1. If you are one of the Italian nations, get to Mercantilism ASAP. You can't out-conquest the Ottomans, so you'll need to catch up with treasures.

    2. Don't bother building city improvements you dont absolutely need. Churn units and supplement your treasure with conquest. Which leads to my next one...

    3. Get your **** together in a hurry. If you're the Venetians, get the UU galleas for them. It wards off pirate ships like your starting ship wont, and you dont want to screw around with pirates when you are a treasure line going later in the scenario.

    At one point I sent a sizable army to take Constantinople, which was a waste of time because there were a ton of units there. I switched targets to the nearby Italian states and Bosnians. Constantinople stood until about 7 turns before the scenario ended (I didnt take it).

    After seeing the Ottoman AI (notoriously bad at coordinating military conquests) ravage everyone that got on their bad side, I can imagine the game would be WAY too easy for a human playing as the Ottomans. A lot of nations seem to delcare war on the Ottomans throughout the game, but almost all of them are too far away to hinder the Ottomans in the slightest. The only ones who seemed to give them a fight was the Mameluks (sp?) to the south. I realize this Ottoman power is historically accurate, however, so I don't complain about this too much.

    As for play, the Ottomans seem like they would be for the conquest minded, the Italian states require a bit more finesse and planning, and the Byzantines would be for those fatalists out there. I'm interested to hear how someone won the scenario game with them.
     
  15. Little Corporal

    Little Corporal fromage

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    I've won a game as the Byzantines before. I gathered up all my units in non-Constantinople cities and sent them to constantinople and the iron mine next to it. Once there, I held out until my cities started to flip back to me, then i attacked Gallipoli. Once I took that out the Ottomans couldn't get me, and I conquered my way up the Balkans and then all the way down to Rome.
     
  16. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    I won a game as the Byzantines too. I had lost all cities but Constantinople, Thesalonica and Mistra. However I somehow managed to conquer the cities between Thesalonica and Mistra, and then in the end also secured the road to my capital. I then turned to the southern Balkans and ended up winning a slight victory, with the Ottomans close.
     
  17. Mesodius

    Mesodius Warmonger

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    Out of curiosity, roughly how many units are holed up inside Constantinople from the beginning? I suppose, judging by the last two posts, I didnt consider that if you waited around long enough inside the capital with your troops, the Ottomans would pass by and become occupied with the Serbs, Mameluks, etc, and you could effectively strike them from the inside (while most of their forces are on the outside of the territory fighting wars), assuming you actually had enough troops.

    I'll have to try the Byzantines when I have time.:D
     
  18. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Meh. I don't really remember, look in the editor;)

    If the Ottomans get overrun is quite different from game to game. In some games they are super power, and others they get crushed by Serbia & Co.
     
  19. Partizanac

    Partizanac Serbian Ambassador in CFC

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  20. Yoda Power

    Yoda Power ✫✫✫✫✫✫✫

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    Twillight of Byzantium - take 2

    So I decided to finally start working on the update. I have sort of gathered a list of things to be done, based on reading the thread through. Green is done, red is not.

    Correct leader names
    Knight gfx replacement
    One less yellow colour civ
    Pirate ship in Pisa
    Sounds for units
    Civ names that are more understandable
    The improvements should be more useful
    The Mamluks are a bit too powerfull maybe. Oppinions?
    Name change of Valetta to Mdina
    Add Mahdia if I can find room
    Make Philadelphias defence stronger
    Custom building gfx.
    Fix some palette issues

    About descriptions they can be done if someone else wants to write them, but I simply don't think they are necessary.
     

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