Ubisoft dumps it's DRM.

[Maniacal]

What are the bad side effects of DRM? I remember that I used to dislike it, but I have forgot too much about it...

I know that Steam is also criticized for some reasons. One I remember is that you have to register the game online in order to play single player offline.

With Steam some people don't like that you can't trade games, returns are rare (though more possible now) and require you to politely ask tech support and have a really really good reason, offline mode doesn't always work, and automatic patching is problematic for strategy games sometimes (sometimes a patch can invalidate old saves while you're in the middle of a game but that is made by the game's respective developer).

Ubisoft's DRM ALWAYS requires you to be connected to the internet, unless you are one of the chosen who got the patch that only requires you to connect when you start the game (every time). There have been numerous problems with other DRMs like SecuROM and Starforce (Starforce is especially bad) including damage to the stability of your system and disabled DVD drives.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

With Steam some people don't like that you can't trade games, returns are rare (though more possible now) and require you to politely ask tech support and have a really really good reason, offline mode doesn't always work, and automatic patching is problematic for strategy games sometimes (sometimes a patch can invalidate old saves while you're in the middle of a game but that is made by the game's respective developer).

What is a return? I guess it means to return a game and get the money back, but that's not possible anywhere unless the game is in a sealed box/cover. I have Half-Life 2, I've not installed it yet but I know it's a Steam game. What you're saying is that I can't sell the game to another person?

Ubisoft's DRM ALWAYS requires you to be connected to the internet, unless you are one of the chosen who got the patch that only requires you to connect when you start the game (every time). There have been numerous problems with other DRMs like SecuROM and Starforce (Starforce is especially bad) including damage to the stability of your system and disabled DVD drives.

Man that is literally the same as hijacking the computer! And alot of people are on dial-up internet, playing their games must be expensive. I will never ever buy a game with that sort of DRM.

 

[Maniacal]

What is a return? I guess it means to return a game and get the money back, but that's not possible anywhere unless the game is in a sealed box/cover. I have Half-Life 2, I've not installed it yet but I know it's a Steam game. What you're saying is that I can't sell the game to another person?

Well in the EU there are better laws for returning things, if the game actually doesn't run on your computer or you really hate it you can probably get a refund with a bit of perseverance. In North America however yeah they don't accept PC games back anyways and it can be a pita if you do try to return them unless there is physical damage to the discs (that occurred before purchase).

With Steam you can't transfer games from one account to another, only Valve can do that and even then its not something they do. Occasionally they will refund a purchase if you accidentally bought the wrong thing and write them a convincing e-mail, but the money goes into your Steam Wallet so it can only be spent on Steam (or Team Fortress 2 items).

Man that is literally the same as hijacking the computer! And alot of people are on dial-up internet, playing their games must be expensive. I will never ever buy a game with that sort of DRM.

Well no its not literally the same, otherwise it would be hijacking, but yeah its not exactly popular.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

With Steam you can't transfer games from one account to another, only Valve can do that and even then its not something they do. Occasionally they will refund a purchase if you accidentally bought the wrong thing and write them a convincing e-mail, but the money goes into your Steam Wallet so it can only be spent on Steam (or Team Fortress 2 items).

But I own the disk version of HL2, Steam won't know if another guy had bought the game from me? Even if I had installed it and used it on my own Steam account?

 

[Rub'Rum]

Buying the disk version is no different from buying the Steam version. The only difference is that it installs from disk... but still into YOUR STEAM account. Really, it just means you don't have to download it from the servers, woohoo. The minute you installed the disk version into your Steam account, well that's it... You can't trade it to another account. You could even reinstall from your account by downloading, you don`t need the disks anymore. Same goes with Civ 5 and every Steam-only game (Total War also).

 

[Maniacal]

To be fair having the discs for Napoleon: Total War is going to be incredibly useful when I install it as it is 20 gigs.

 

[Rheinmetall]

Oh I really loved starforce. 4 DVD drives rendered completely useless.

 

[Maniacal]

Ironically enough, I think I have had Starforce on my computer for years and no issues. Unless I somehow happened to get a non-starforce version of two or three games.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

Buying the disk version is no different from buying the Steam version. The only difference is that it installs from disk... but still into YOUR STEAM account. Really, it just means you don't have to download it from the servers, woohoo. The minute you installed the disk version into your Steam account, well that's it... You can't trade it to another account. You could even reinstall from your account by downloading, you don`t need the disks anymore. Same goes with Civ 5 and every Steam-only game (Total War also).

How does Steam know that a particular copy of the game have been installed on another computer before?

 

[Maniacal]

How does Steam know that a particular copy of the game have been installed on another computer before?

You have to enter your serial key into your account, and you can't use that key for any other account as you need to be logged into your Steam account to install the game and to play it (you do not have to be online to play it though). Steam doesn't care if you ever install it or how many times you install it.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Think of it as being installed on your Steam account, not on your computer (it IS installed on your computer, but it belongs to a particular steam account). So, another person who wanted to play Half-Life 2 with your copy would have to log on YOUR account on his computer.

It's almost as if, fictious example here, as if your link to boot the game was found in your e-mail account. So you have to log into your e-mails to start playing.

Granted there IS an offline mode... So the person could theoretically log ONCE and then set it to offline mode and never log back again on Steam...

 

[carmen510]

Think of it as being installed on your Steam account, not on your computer (it IS installed on your computer, but it belongs to a particular steam account). So, another person who wanted to play Half-Life 2 with your copy would have to log on YOUR account on his computer.

It's almost as if, fictious example here, as if your link to boot the game was found in your e-mail account. So you have to log into your e-mails to start playing.

Granted there IS an offline mode... So the person could theoretically log ONCE and then set it to offline mode and never log back again on Steam...

Offline mode is mostly bull though. All multiplayer games, and quite a few singleplayer games don't work on Offline Mode.

 

[Maniacal]

Offline mode is mostly bull though. All multiplayer games, and quite a few singleplayer games don't work on Offline Mode.

Well if you don't have an internet connection you can't play multiplayer anyways. Offline mode works fine for a lot of people, though some people do run into issues. No idea if its any more or less than the normal amount of people who run into bugs/issues with games.

I've never had a problem starting up steam games in offline mode.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Me neither. I even managed to play LAN with a single copy of Borderlands by being in Offline mode with both computers. That wouldn't work with games that don't support, in their own programming, two games of the same copy playing together at the same time. So, for Borderlands, while I could LAN with one copy, I couldn't play with the same copy in the gamespy system because gamespy authenticates the copy and verifies no 2 people are playing with the same copy. All of this was through Steam too, but Steam doesn't verify because Borderlands was not a Steam game (like Civ 5), I just happened to buy it on Steam.

But yeah, never had Offline mode problems personally.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

You have to enter your serial key into your account, and you can't use that key for any other account as you need to be logged into your Steam account to install the game and to play it (you do not have to be online to play it though). Steam doesn't care if you ever install it or how many times you install it.

So they cared to write individual serial numbers on each copy of the game eh. That's like Windows, but Windows is not just a game. I've bought a lot of games but none had serial numbers.

Think of it as being installed on your Steam account, not on your computer (it IS installed on your computer, but it belongs to a particular steam account). So, another person who wanted to play Half-Life 2 with your copy would have to log on YOUR account on his computer.

If I know and trust the person I give or sell the game to, I could share account with him or her. Probably not a Steam approved approach, but I guess it could work.

Anyway, I wonder if it is legal to deprive us second hand value of a product we purchase. I don't know if this has been tested in any European courts.

 

[Sprig]

So they cared to write individual serial numbers on each copy of the game eh. That's like Windows, but Windows is not just a game. I've bought a lot of games but none had serial numbers.

In most of those cases it is because they do have there own form for DRM. In this case i suspect it requires you to have the CD/DVD in the drive in order to play the game.

If I know and trust the person I give or sell the game to, I could share account with him or her. Probably not a Steam approved approach, but I guess it could work.

Anyway, I wonder if it is legal to deprive us second hand value of a product we purchase. I don't know if this has been tested in any European courts.

There is gifting on steam, I don't see any reason why steam couldn't enable you to gift your games to other accounts, it would be quite simple as the function is already there.

BUT......

You have to remember that all publishers(music, books, movies, & software) are greedy, they don't want you to by a game then once you finished flog it on to someone else. They want both of you to purchase as they make twice as much money.

It quite funny the attitude of some of these publishing companies. While it makes sense from a busines point of view it still doesn;t make it socially or morally correct. You get companies spending masses amounts of money trying to lock software to one system so you can't sell it, they spend masses amounts of money on trying to protect thier software from being pirated and then complain about lost sales from pirates who would have never brought the game anyway.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

In most of those cases it is because they do have there own form for DRM. In this case i suspect it requires you to have the CD/DVD in the drive in order to play the game.

Yes I have to have the CDs in the drive. I don't know if DRM is involved though. It just won't run unless it detects the CD in the drive.

You get companies spending masses amounts of money trying to lock software to one system so you can't sell it, they spend masses amounts of money on trying to protect thier software from being pirated and then complain about lost sales from pirates who would have never brought the game anyway.

Reminds me of iTunes and how they locked their music to only work on Apple music players. The Consumers' Council in Norway took Apple to court and Apple had to unlock their music. Not only in Norway but in Europe as well.

 

[Rub'Rum]

So they cared to write individual serial numbers on each copy of the game eh. That's like Windows, but Windows is not just a game. I've bought a lot of games but none had serial numbers.

Really? 'cause CD-keys have been around for over 10 years. They used to be able to control who was online earlier in internet gaming history. Exemple: Diablo 1 (1997) had the cd-detection method you describe to make sure you were playing with your copy, but if somehow you managed to play without a CD (i.e. take the CD out after booting the game...), your CD-key would prevent another person to join Battle.net (only one copy of your CD-key could be on Battle.net, the internet Diablo system, at once). Of course this did nothing to prevent many copies playing singleplayer, at different places at the same time so it has evolved into what we know today. I think it even verified CD-keys for modem play... Although you could install "spawn" versions of the game to play multiplayer (i.e. a copy that couldn't play single player, it was only there to play MP with a friend using his copy).

If I know and trust the person I give or sell the game to, I could share account with him or her. Probably not a Steam approved approach, but I guess it could work.

At this point you might as well share the account with that person for free since you are so close to them. I can't think of anyone that I would try to make money off them and at the same time trust them enough with my Steam account, which has over 70 games in it. You're sharing more than your game, you're sharing your whole account. If you never intend on using your account for anything other than that one installation of Half-Life 2, well whatever I guess it's fine, but it's a really backwards way of going around the problem. You might as well create a different e-mail address and Steam account for every game you buy, although it'll be a headache. And good luck selling your game to other people who might not wanna deal with a different steam account only for your game.

Steam exclusive games are more and more common (like Civ 5!) and, well, wnat it or not, you'll probably end up with at least a few games on your steam account, which will cause all kinds of problem when someone you sold your game to tries to play his game when you are already at your own home playing Civ 5 or something like that. Without mentionning the fact that he could just play Civ 5 since, you know, he's logging into your account.

I dunno, I just consider it non resellable. I don't approve, but at this point that's what we're buying.

 

[Sir_Lancelot]

Really? 'cause CD-keys have been around for over 10 years. They used to be able to control who was online earlier in internet gaming history. Exemple: Diablo 1 (1997) had the cd-detection method you describe to make sure you were playing with your copy, but if somehow you managed to play without a CD (i.e. take the CD out after booting the game...), your CD-key would prevent another person to join Battle.net (only one copy of your CD-key could be on Battle.net, the internet Diablo system, at once). Of course this did nothing to prevent many copies playing singleplayer, at different places at the same time so it has evolved into what we know today. I think it even verified CD-keys for modem play... Although you could install "spawn" versions of the game to play multiplayer (i.e. a copy that couldn't play single player, it was only there to play MP with a friend using his copy).

I think the newest PC game I own (except Half-Life 2) is Civ 3. And Civ3 is how old? Close to 10 years I think. That could be why I've not came across games with CD keys...

I tried HL2 at a friend some years ago and I didn't like Steam. But HL2 is such a good game that I was willing to bite the dust just for this game.

I really want to buy my games, but Steam and DRM might turn me into a pirate some day. I'm sure that's what the industry is trying to achieve.

 

[Rub'Rum]

Yeah I've been gaming for a loooong time too (Coleco and the 80s here I come), I've seen the evol... devolution of how gamers are treated quite first hand, and it's getting increasingly worst, an exponential curve being treated like crap.

I don't think they want to make you a pirate, they mostly want you to switch to consoles I think... Since more and more games that come out on PC also have console counterparts.