Unexpected city names

It's one if the drawbacks of English being the globalized language that the anglo-saxon countries never even try to pronounce anything non-english halfway correctly.
I am digressing now, but it is not uniquely for English. Laziness, pronunciation-difficulties, dominance and misunderstandings have lead to lot of the names we have in use today. A prime example would be how that Native Americans are named after the South-Asian river Sindhū in contemporary English. But also the proclaimed oldest city of Germany, Trier, likely got its name from the Celtic people inhabiting the area around 400 BC, according to wikipedias sources interestingly enough also this etymology may refer to a river (Moselle). http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bitstream/handle/2160/282/FalileyevMap.pdf?sequence=12&isAllowed=y
Civilization being a historical game, it would be be relevant how to treat how names have changed through history if you wanted to keep the accuracy.
 
Historically when other countries occupies cities, they tend to either rename them entirely (very often in honor of some king, relation or other fame), keep the current name (but adapt it to their own language), or use the name they themselves have used historically. To be honest "Los Beijing" sounds silly, it would be like if the British acquired Beijing, but called it "The Beijing". More naturally would be that it would be named "San Felipe" "Villa Felipe"; "Pekin" "Pequin"; or "La Capital del Norte" or something like that.

Well, I'm more "spitballing" for ideas than proposing anything concrete with "Los" (I dont speak Spanish). But I still think it might be a nice touch... a small thing, more or less on par with having archaeological site location based on battles of the previous eras.

So, for example, civ5 included "malacca" as a city state... which goes by "penang" nowadays, but the city itself is "Georgetown". Ho Chi Minh City is still referred to as Saigon by some. The Spanish established "Maynilia" which we now know as Manila. Northern Irish variously call the capital "Derry" or "Londonderry", depending on identity. The capital of Indonesia is known internationally as Jakarta, but spelt "Djakarta" in Indonesian, but was "Batavia" back in the day. Theres a history behind "Normandy" that I'm not familiar with, but, yeah. I think you get my point.
 
While I'd love to learn names in their local language, for a popular game like civ, I think you need to stick with the names used by the players of the game. (Of course, as pointed out above, this can evolve with time.) So for the English version, you use Rome, not Roma. It would be too confusing for many players otherwise. For lesser known names (like Scythia's) the commonly used English-language scholarly version seems the best choice. (Not sure what to do when translating the game into a language that doesn't have a body of scholarly work on a particular civ)
 
So it doesn't help to go for pronounciation imho, because English speakers will pronounce cities like Paris or Berlin incorrect - that's why I think orthography would be a better way. Not that it would ever happen.

That's not really an English problem: I think all European countries almost make a point of mispronouncing each other's cities :p

London or Londres? Rome or Roma or Rom? Munich, München or even Monaco?
 
So, for example, civ5 included "malacca" as a city state... which goes by "penang" nowadays, but the city itself is "Georgetown". Ho Chi Minh City is still referred to as Saigon by some. The Spanish established "Maynilia" which we now know as Manila. Northern Irish variously call the capital "Derry" or "Londonderry", depending on identity. The capital of Indonesia is known internationally as Jakarta, but spelt "Djakarta" in Indonesian, but was "Batavia" back in the day. Theres a history behind "Normandy" that I'm not familiar with, but, yeah. I think you get my point.

I don't disagree that some renaming of cities according to who owns it is a bad idea, but an implementation had to be more advanced than what you initially suggested. And as Civilization as a game pans out in a relative short timeframe, renaming cities often may be confusing. But as an option is surely welcoming. How to name, would be controversial however.

Malacca city states is not what today is called Penang. Penang is of course the island by the same name and also the state. Malacca is further south, even south of Kuala Lumpur. Penang is however a good example as early under the British it was known as Prince of Wales Island (named after royalty).

Manila is officially Maynila in local language, it is also Manila in Spanish. But it is an illustration of which you see everywhere that the influence of English or other dominating colonial languages is stronger than the use of the local language. The name of the entire archipelago is also interestingly as it is named after Spanish royalty, even tough there existed names prior to the Spanish.

Londonderry and Derry are both English names, the original name was Daire, and which of the prior to be used are disputed as you say.

Jakarta. Wheter you write it with or without D is more a matter of transliteration, in written "Bahasa Indonesia" the orthography are more phonetic, like it is in like German, as discussed is a problem with English. But Jakarta has had several names, originally Sunda Kelapa, and kept this name even after the first Dutch arrived, however the locals and the Dutch was beaten by a rival Javanese people who renamed it Jayakarta of which the modern name is derived. When they again where ousted by the Dutch, it was renamed as you say Batavia. Indonesia is also a new colonial name derived from greek "Indian Islands" (it was the British who come up with it, not the greeks however who had no interest as they were under Ottoman rule at that time). The dutch called it Indie de Oost.

Normandy have had several different names prior to be called Normandy, which are derived from Romanz/Langues D'oil (Old French) meaning men from north (Normant from norse).
 
It'd be interesting if, once captured, the AI renamed cities.
 
Well, EU4 can rename provinces depending on who owns them, can't see why it couldn't be implemented in Civilization. Civ also has much less location names than EU.
 
Back to the original thread... they may have named Newcastle that because a lot of English cities are going through this insane rename. For example I used to live in Staines but now I live in Staines upon Thames
Ffs, millions of pounds wasted for what... although I do agree it was probably to make things clearer in civ and probably is why they did it.
 
So for the English version, you use Rome, not Roma. It would be too confusing for many players otherwise.
I think, you put the bar 'a bit' too low ... c'mon, a city of the roman empire, marked as capital ... what would be too confusing? To perceive that the romans didn't speak English? (When in Rome, do like the Romans do. Roma.)
That's not really an English problem: I think all European countries almost make a point of mispronouncing each other's cities
You are surely right, all do it. The English are probably the peak, though.
- most of the other countries have own characters above the legendary 128 ASCII, their native speakers understand how the extra characters "work" and are aware, how important the additional marks are. Just the Englishman has the choice "ignore 'em all".
- the more languages one speaks, the more the knowledge grows about what is similar and what is different. With only one spoken language irritating effects are naturally the biggest.

Btw, learning Mandarin is really hard. Still the usage of Latin letters (Pīnyīn) for writing is very systematic (bijective) and helps a lot. The pronunciation of the vowels is similar to the German ... they even use an 'ü' (along with the typical tone marks) ... NǚRén (女人) = woman
Code:
ā á ǎ à a
ē é ě è e
ī í ǐ ì i
ō ó ǒ ò o
ū ú ǔ ù u
_ _ ǚ ǜ ü
I use this file to copy "special" characters from.
 
Code:
ā á ǎ à a
ē é ě è e
ī í ǐ ì i
ō ó ǒ ò o
ū ú ǔ ù u
_ _ ǚ ǜ ü
I use this file to copy "special" characters from.
Good thing you don't need Polish letters that often ;-)
 
Good thing you don't need Polish letters that often ;-)
Hē, xiāshuō! Búkèqi, nǐ bù míngbai wǒ shuō shénme ... (I should have been more clear talking about Chinese ;) )

Fortunately I've to write very little, mostly reading and (trying) to speak ...
 
Good thing you don't need Polish letters that often ;-)
Many people who only speak English struggle with Polish names.

For example, Wroclaw does not sound like "rock-law" in Polish at all. It sounds more like "vrohtswahf."

Good thing the neighbouring Chinese provinces of Shanxi and Shaanxi don't show up in the game.
 
I don't disagree that some renaming of cities according to who owns it is a bad idea, but an implementation had to be more advanced than what you initially suggested. And as Civilization as a game pans out in a relative short timeframe, renaming cities often may be confusing. But as an option is surely welcoming. How to name, would be controversial however.

Malacca city states is not what today is called Penang. Penang is of course the island by the same name and also the state. Malacca is further south, even south of Kuala Lumpur. Penang is however a good example as early under the British it was known as Prince of Wales Island (named after royalty).

Manila is officially Maynila in local language, it is also Manila in Spanish. But it is an illustration of which you see everywhere that the influence of English or other dominating colonial languages is stronger than the use of the local language. The name of the entire archipelago is also interestingly as it is named after Spanish royalty, even tough there existed names prior to the Spanish.

Londonderry and Derry are both English names, the original name was Daire, and which of the prior to be used are disputed as you say.

Jakarta. Wheter you write it with or without D is more a matter of transliteration, in written "Bahasa Indonesia" the orthography are more phonetic, like it is in like German, as discussed is a problem with English. But Jakarta has had several names, originally Sunda Kelapa, and kept this name even after the first Dutch arrived, however the locals and the Dutch was beaten by a rival Javanese people who renamed it Jayakarta of which the modern name is derived. When they again where ousted by the Dutch, it was renamed as you say Batavia. Indonesia is also a new colonial name derived from greek "Indian Islands" (it was the British who come up with it, not the greeks however who had no interest as they were under Ottoman rule at that time). The dutch called it Indie de Oost.

Normandy have had several different names prior to be called Normandy, which are derived from Romanz/Langues D'oil (Old French) meaning men from north (Normant from norse).

I was reading up on Sparta in the wake of it's inclusion as a capital, and was interested to find that to Spartans, the city state was not known as that. Lacedaemon was their name for them and their culture; with Sparta only being the central settlement.

Well, EU4 can rename provinces depending on who owns them, can't see why it couldn't be implemented in Civilization. Civ also has much less location names than EU.

I'd say there are no location names, unless you insert them with a tag ;) I like putting provinces into my empire.
 
I was reading up on Sparta in the wake of it's inclusion as a capital, and was interested to find that to Spartans, the city state was not known as that. Lacedaemon was their name for them and their culture; with Sparta only being the central settlement.
Yes, I think that changed closer to the BCE/CE shift, maybe when Greece was part of the Roman Empire. And when talking about city states, several are named after the modern name of the excavation sites, not their original names. Nan Madol is also a feature name, and not the name of the city proper.
 
I was reading up on Sparta in the wake of it's inclusion as a capital, and was interested to find that to Spartans, the city state was not known as that. Lacedaemon was their name for them and their culture; with Sparta only being the central settlement.



I'd say there are no location names, unless you insert them with a tag ;) I like putting provinces into my empire.

Provinces would be an interesting feature. Policy cards by province?
 
Provinces would be an interesting feature. Policy cards by province?

If they could do it; that'd be cool. Prob more work than many players would like...

Maybe some kind of ability to federalise your government. You'd lose some control...but gain higher amenities, science, & culture in return ;)

Edit: Re having the ability to have different policies in different provinces without it being overwhelming:

How about if one more category was added to the government screen. So you'd have: Military, Economic, Diplomatic, Wildcard, and say Regional. The regional section would come into the game later on (after the Renaissance I think...); and the number of slots it had would be based on the number of cities you have...say one slot for every 4 cities. And you could allocate any card that you weren't using nation wide into a regional slot which would then affect only those four cities.

What cities would be in which region is the tricky bit. Would it be something the players can decide...? Or would cities shift groupings based on what was closest to what? I think it's an idea that has some merit.
 
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