pigswill
fly (one day)
Re stonefish city: settling on silk misses stone. Maybe 1S of silk or even 2S (gets floodplains and (I think) shouldn't lead to close borders).
UNGY5 Let's keep it simple!
- Thread starter ungy
- Start date
I was assumig we're talking about settling the northern horse/stone city, not the one down by Charlie.
I'm thinking we need another axe though--I guess we could build it after the settler as we're only going to pull the trigger on settling in the unlikely event Iz comes our wy.
Everything seems good.
silverbullet
King
I was referring to the stone/fish/horse city NORTH of us.
I don't think we have a chance of settling near Charlie on time. He is imperialistic and already has 2 cities very close to the stone.
Regarding Axe, my plan is to leave Thessa city undefended for now. There is a whippable axe there in the queue (actually it will be whippable in 2 turns), but I prefer to work a cottage for now.
If you think it's too risky, I can whip the axe now.
I don't think we have a chance of settling near Charlie on time. He is imperialistic and already has 2 cities very close to the stone.
Regarding Axe, my plan is to leave Thessa city undefended for now. There is a whippable axe there in the queue (actually it will be whippable in 2 turns), but I prefer to work a cottage for now.
If you think it's too risky, I can whip the axe now.
silverbullet
King
Played a few more turns.
The capital completed a settler and another axe. Now working on a worker.
Farmed the corn near Thessa, granary can be whipped in 2 turns. There is also a whippable axe there. After granary we might want to whip it before switching to caste system.
Ramesses sent 2 jewish missionaries, and Isabella was too slow. I don't think we should convert to judaism, it's too risky with Spain so close.
Isabella has 1 missionary in our territory, hopefully she will spread something to us.
There are a lot of barbarian cities around us, including a new one south east of Adrianopole and we could take at least some of them.
Vandal has been reduced to 2 archers by Ramesses's war chariots, so we might want to focus on an army now.
Note that Adrianopole is undefended at the moment. There is an axe that can get there in 2 turns if barbs become visible. Make sure you don't let this axe get farther away from the city though.
Code of laws will be ready in 7 turns, but no one has alphabet yet. Hopefully it won't take too long before we can trade.
Surpisingly Charlemagne has not settled the southern stone yet. We could have probably grabbed it but now it is probably too late. Still, we could take a nice piece of jungle.
I think this is an important decision point. Are we going to try the pyramids or are we going to try to grab as much land as possible?
Given our trait I would go for a land grab. We are going to need a lot of military so let's grab as many cities that can whip an army as we can.
I think that we can stay in tech parity by bulbing, there are lot of potential trade partners here.
I can't see much point in the pyramids if it will cost us good cities.
In terms of research we will need fishing, and after that we could aim for mathematics->Calendar->civil service.
The capital completed a settler and another axe. Now working on a worker.
Farmed the corn near Thessa, granary can be whipped in 2 turns. There is also a whippable axe there. After granary we might want to whip it before switching to caste system.
Ramesses sent 2 jewish missionaries, and Isabella was too slow. I don't think we should convert to judaism, it's too risky with Spain so close.
Isabella has 1 missionary in our territory, hopefully she will spread something to us.
There are a lot of barbarian cities around us, including a new one south east of Adrianopole and we could take at least some of them.
Vandal has been reduced to 2 archers by Ramesses's war chariots, so we might want to focus on an army now.
Note that Adrianopole is undefended at the moment. There is an axe that can get there in 2 turns if barbs become visible. Make sure you don't let this axe get farther away from the city though.
Code of laws will be ready in 7 turns, but no one has alphabet yet. Hopefully it won't take too long before we can trade.
Surpisingly Charlemagne has not settled the southern stone yet. We could have probably grabbed it but now it is probably too late. Still, we could take a nice piece of jungle.
I think this is an important decision point. Are we going to try the pyramids or are we going to try to grab as much land as possible?
Given our trait I would go for a land grab. We are going to need a lot of military so let's grab as many cities that can whip an army as we can.
I think that we can stay in tech parity by bulbing, there are lot of potential trade partners here.
I can't see much point in the pyramids if it will cost us good cities.
In terms of research we will need fishing, and after that we could aim for mathematics->Calendar->civil service.
Interestingly the Oracle was built in Spain yet no religion was founded. This could be very good for us as it implies that:
- We'll be first to CoL (it's not that important though -- it's easy to trade around anyway).
- As Izzy didn't pick a religion there's a pretty big chance that she went for MC. We'll get her to friendly pretty fast once we adopt her religion so we should be able to trade for it later.
I'd like the Pyramids, but it's not very important to me. It will give us a happiness boost and enables police state for future wars. Being spiritual we can make us of that civic as well, so traits lean both ways. We have a back-up landgrab by taking out Ramesses which seems to be a very good plan be it soon or later. He's made the religious shrine already so taking his holy city will result in some extra gold. Having a holy city is very good for espionage later on as well.
Pursuing barbarian cities is much more lucrative with either an aggressive civ (easy access to cover) or having swordsmen. We have neither and no barracks up -- it's going to cost a lot claiming those cities and it might not even be necessary. We'll probably lose the one south of Adrianople, but the one south of Thessa can get culture flipped and the one to the far west will probably be left alone until the AD years -- possibly even longer, we shouldn't have to hurry.
Izzy is definitely spreading to us and not converting to Judaism was the right call, even without anarchy.
Unpromoted axes really suck against fortified archers, but seeing as there's only 2 of them it might be a good idea to take that city by force. It's not that long until we'll get artists though and every axe lost is 35 hammers lost. We'll lose at least 2 -- possibly more.
I'd try to trade for mathematics, so putting slider at 0% for a while if there's no alphabet around after fishing seems best. We'll want calendar as soon as possible though, so we should research that by ourselves unless something tells us otherwise.
- We'll be first to CoL (it's not that important though -- it's easy to trade around anyway).
- As Izzy didn't pick a religion there's a pretty big chance that she went for MC. We'll get her to friendly pretty fast once we adopt her religion so we should be able to trade for it later.
I'd like the Pyramids, but it's not very important to me. It will give us a happiness boost and enables police state for future wars. Being spiritual we can make us of that civic as well, so traits lean both ways. We have a back-up landgrab by taking out Ramesses which seems to be a very good plan be it soon or later. He's made the religious shrine already so taking his holy city will result in some extra gold. Having a holy city is very good for espionage later on as well.
Pursuing barbarian cities is much more lucrative with either an aggressive civ (easy access to cover) or having swordsmen. We have neither and no barracks up -- it's going to cost a lot claiming those cities and it might not even be necessary. We'll probably lose the one south of Adrianople, but the one south of Thessa can get culture flipped and the one to the far west will probably be left alone until the AD years -- possibly even longer, we shouldn't have to hurry.
Izzy is definitely spreading to us and not converting to Judaism was the right call, even without anarchy.
Unpromoted axes really suck against fortified archers, but seeing as there's only 2 of them it might be a good idea to take that city by force. It's not that long until we'll get artists though and every axe lost is 35 hammers lost. We'll lose at least 2 -- possibly more.
I'd try to trade for mathematics, so putting slider at 0% for a while if there's no alphabet around after fishing seems best. We'll want calendar as soon as possible though, so we should research that by ourselves unless something tells us otherwise.
silverbullet
King
Rusten: if we go for the pyramids we need masonry, and we also need fishing, so I don't see an immediate need to set research to 0.
Do you think we should try to block Charlemagne with another settler before the pyramids or just go ahead and build them now? Chopping would be much more effective if we get mathematics via trade.
We will need more workers to chop the pyramids quickly and mine the forested hills in the capital.
I don't think we should try to get the city south of Thessa by force. We should park at least 1 axe there and preferable 2 in case more war chariots come there and reduce its defences to 1 archer.
Do you think we should try to block Charlemagne with another settler before the pyramids or just go ahead and build them now? Chopping would be much more effective if we get mathematics via trade.
We will need more workers to chop the pyramids quickly and mine the forested hills in the capital.
I don't think we should try to get the city south of Thessa by force. We should park at least 1 axe there and preferable 2 in case more war chariots come there and reduce its defences to 1 archer.
I meant 0% after all the necessary small techs but before deciding to start on alpha/mathematics/MC. I simply forgot we don't have masonry.
I wouldn't waste forests on a settler now that we're (seemingly) so close to mathematics -- it seems Izzy is about to spread Buddhism to our capital so we can just 2-pop whip a settler instead. If izzy spreads buddhism to our capital and we have an axemen available to escort the settler I'd give it a try.
I wouldn't start on the Pyramids without the stone, but the moment we have stone available I would.
I wouldn't waste forests on a settler now that we're (seemingly) so close to mathematics -- it seems Izzy is about to spread Buddhism to our capital so we can just 2-pop whip a settler instead. If izzy spreads buddhism to our capital and we have an axemen available to escort the settler I'd give it a try.
I wouldn't start on the Pyramids without the stone, but the moment we have stone available I would.
Nice going silverbullet.
I don't have a strong opinion on the 'mids but like Rusten I'd be inclined to take a shot at it once the stone is in. I think we'll get a couple of cities to the W regardless.
I'm not as wild about taking a shot at the city by Charlie. Since we're going to take Izzie's religion, we may find ourselves not only his only target geographically but also wrong religion. Better to concede the territory to him and take land from Ramesses later IMHO
Roster:
Ungy
Rusten
Silverbullet--just played
Pigswill UP
Mystyfly--on swap
VRA--on deck
I don't have a strong opinion on the 'mids but like Rusten I'd be inclined to take a shot at it once the stone is in. I think we'll get a couple of cities to the W regardless.
I'm not as wild about taking a shot at the city by Charlie. Since we're going to take Izzie's religion, we may find ourselves not only his only target geographically but also wrong religion. Better to concede the territory to him and take land from Ramesses later IMHO
Roster:
Ungy
Rusten
Silverbullet--just played
Pigswill UP
Mystyfly--on swap
VRA--on deck
pigswill
fly (one day)
Got it. Won't have time to play until tomorrow (just finished another SG and half way through a set in sgotm).
I'm tempted to build a city to the south west, there's a corn/banana spot which is low on production but high on food (and grassland for yummy cottages (or dull workshops?))once jungle is cleared.
I'm tempted to build a city to the south west, there's a corn/banana spot which is low on production but high on food (and grassland for yummy cottages (or dull workshops?))once jungle is cleared.
Settling a city for both the banana and the corn probably drops a lot of hills. I think it's better to settle two cities sharing the food. Seeing as we can decide where to settle without AI interference we can dotmap the SW.
Switch from spice -> rice in capital when you start playing -- +2 production.
Switch from spice -> rice in capital when you start playing -- +2 production.
Hoping to initiate some more discussion I made a dotmap with colors associated with how many and where I'd put the cities. The barbarian city is kept in all variations.
Red plan means settling just that 1 city. I don't like it -- it leaves a lot of unusued grassland and we won't use the entire BFC until the game is over. It's usually better to split the good land than leaving it unused for a long time. It also drops a lot of grassland hills.
Yellow plan means settling two cities. I'm not a big fan of this either as we'll share a lot of borders with Charlemagne anyway -- he'll probably put a city for the fish by the coast.
Purple plan is 3 cities. This one is my favourite, but it might need revising if we get beat somewhere.
If we get beat to the fish site my preference is to fall back on yellow (fish would be purple 1st choice). Moving yellow 1N might be better if AI settles purple #1.
Is Vra really playing this game? It's been about 2 weeks and there's not a single post about anything. There's no real point being on the roster/participating if one is just going to play turns and then disappear again -- might as well play SP. I don't like nagging (and I'm not even the host
) but if there's no word soon maybe someone else should get the spot if interested? Don't have to be super-active, but current effort is at zero.
Red plan means settling just that 1 city. I don't like it -- it leaves a lot of unusued grassland and we won't use the entire BFC until the game is over. It's usually better to split the good land than leaving it unused for a long time. It also drops a lot of grassland hills.
Yellow plan means settling two cities. I'm not a big fan of this either as we'll share a lot of borders with Charlemagne anyway -- he'll probably put a city for the fish by the coast.
Purple plan is 3 cities. This one is my favourite, but it might need revising if we get beat somewhere.
If we get beat to the fish site my preference is to fall back on yellow (fish would be purple 1st choice). Moving yellow 1N might be better if AI settles purple #1.
Is Vra really playing this game? It's been about 2 weeks and there's not a single post about anything. There's no real point being on the roster/participating if one is just going to play turns and then disappear again -- might as well play SP. I don't like nagging (and I'm not even the host
) but if there's no word soon maybe someone else should get the spot if interested? Don't have to be super-active, but current effort is at zero.VRA are you there?
If you are still following this game we'd like to see some participation. This is a team effort.
Agreed about the city settling--I'm still concerned about blocking Charlie too aggressively--although I guess we just get to the same place a little later and if we don't manage our relations with him we could get blindsided anyway.
If you are still following this game we'd like to see some participation. This is a team effort.
Agreed about the city settling--I'm still concerned about blocking Charlie too aggressively--although I guess we just get to the same place a little later and if we don't manage our relations with him we could get blindsided anyway.
silverbullet
King
Ungy brings a good point. Charlemagne is dangerous when cautious, and his only land border as far as we currently know is going to be with us.
If I remembner DanF's explanation correctly, 8 bordering tiles is the point that makes war decision much more likely from the AI. We are already there with Isabella, so make sure to check her WHEOOH every turn. If she successfully spreads her religion to us we should be safe though.
Charlie is 100% safe at pleased, so if we go for purple we should consider doing an unequal trade or a tech gift to please him. When (hopefully) he adopts Buddhism, we can safely build up for a war against Ramesses.
If, on the other hand, charlie adopts a different religion, we will need to discuss our plans. A war with charlie seems inevitable in this situation, but we might want to keep it a defencive war (we have cheap walls with stone).
If I remembner DanF's explanation correctly, 8 bordering tiles is the point that makes war decision much more likely from the AI. We are already there with Isabella, so make sure to check her WHEOOH every turn. If she successfully spreads her religion to us we should be safe though.
Charlie is 100% safe at pleased, so if we go for purple we should consider doing an unequal trade or a tech gift to please him. When (hopefully) he adopts Buddhism, we can safely build up for a war against Ramesses.
If, on the other hand, charlie adopts a different religion, we will need to discuss our plans. A war with charlie seems inevitable in this situation, but we might want to keep it a defencive war (we have cheap walls with stone).
pigswill
fly (one day)
Sorry chaps. I had intended to play this evening but got called into work at short notice, back home five hours later but a bit too knackered to play properly and I don't play that well even when rested.
Working long day tomorrow (12 hour shift). Should have some free time Wednesday evening.
Got as far as 'yet another dotmap':
Northern city picks up unused hill, corn, bit of jungle grassland, coastal and freshwater.
Southern city gets bananas, few hills, plenty of jungle and no freshwater so it won't be that healthy at the start.
Working long day tomorrow (12 hour shift). Should have some free time Wednesday evening.
Got as far as 'yet another dotmap':
Northern city picks up unused hill, corn, bit of jungle grassland, coastal and freshwater.
Southern city gets bananas, few hills, plenty of jungle and no freshwater so it won't be that healthy at the start.
silverbullet
King
I think fish/stone/sugar/flood plains site (Rusten's purple spot) is worth trying if we can get there on time.
I would only avoid it if Charlemagne gets judaism, which would make it impossible to please him early.
If we are aiming for it, we need another settler before starting working on the pyramids.
I would only avoid it if Charlemagne gets judaism, which would make it impossible to please him early.
If we are aiming for it, we need another settler before starting working on the pyramids.
If we are trying to get the stone there, I thik we should go ahead and settle on the river on Ramsess border, as opposed to settling in jungle. We can always backfill later, but for now, settling 1S of the stone below looks to be a better plan, plus we would hold that Stone and the river bonus if or when a future war occurs.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I'm wondering if we should put a settler (6 turns) ahead of the worker in Constantinople because we've got three workers atm and until we get IW they'll run out of things to do. I assume that we're planning on switching to Buddhism once BM arrives in Constantinople which would remove the red face in the short term (or we could double whip a settler coz we can regrow fairly fast).
I'm thinking get a settler out soonish and head him/ her south west. If we lose south stonefish we can debate second best location.
I'm thinking get a settler out soonish and head him/ her south west. If we lose south stonefish we can debate second best location.
That'll lose the fish.
I'm not too optimistic about our chances for the city anyway--we need to build settler+axe +about 7 moves. That's 14 turns more or less (assuming we whip the axe in Thessalonika)--hard to imagine it'll still be there with an imp AI.
While it's a good city, it doesn't get us any unique resources (the sugar will come from the barb city), and we'll have culture wars over the floods. Once we have calender we'll have plenty of resources to trade.
I think the worker is for the 'mids--(and we'll have IW very soon--we should be trading for it shortly). If we want to take a stab at it (and I think we should), we'll have to hustle. In any case, the workers are useful--we can always road our way to the jungle.
