Glad you didn't reload, but it still hurts.
Speed matters. There's the movement issue, but more importantly units are cheaper on marathon which means more hammers to put into wonders.SnowlyWhite said:
UNGY5 Let's keep it simple!
- Thread starter ungy
- Start date
Glad you didn't reload, but it still hurts.
So, this was a up and down set. Mostly down.
Isabella started off the set demanding we become Bhuddists, and I gladly agreed.
The Pyramids was lost before I really even got started, as it seems a GE in a distant land built it. Charlie did nothing to improve the mood by settling Florence in there...
...then, the one thing that we had no control over went right.
The scouting axes revealed this...
That is Madrid, Size 8, guarded by two archers and just over the border.
I also was able to trade CoL for Alpha from Wang, after putting a turn or two into it.
I think I'll end the set here, as we've a few decisons to make on what to do next...
Isabella started off the set demanding we become Bhuddists, and I gladly agreed.
The Pyramids was lost before I really even got started, as it seems a GE in a distant land built it. Charlie did nothing to improve the mood by settling Florence in there...
...then, the one thing that we had no control over went right.
The scouting axes revealed this...
That is Madrid, Size 8, guarded by two archers and just over the border.
I also was able to trade CoL for Alpha from Wang, after putting a turn or two into it.
I think I'll end the set here, as we've a few decisons to make on what to do next...
I am very sorry guys but I think I will step back and leave my slot to other players (I'm sure there are some...).
I just don't have the time to focus on several games, am about to finish school and have other interests. I will follow this game and wish you all good luck.
I just don't have the time to focus on several games, am about to finish school and have other interests. I will follow this game and wish you all good luck.
No problem...
Yes this has been a fairly tough set.
Looks like Charlie had nowhere else to go but our way.
I think we need to take Judiasm and look to war with Iz--although I think we'll need cats.
We are in a tight race for the remaining city site by the corn. If Charlie makes some weedy moves we can claim a good spot, if not we may have to found on the forest coast but that should be our move with the settler. We can get a city before him. We should get a few axes over there asap as the barb city is down to 2 archers--we might get to pick it up on the cheap if Charlie weakens it for us. That and the coast city would get us communication.
VRA do you want to play a little more or turn it over?
Mystyfly is out so I'll be up next.
Looks like Charlie had nowhere else to go but our way.
I think we need to take Judiasm and look to war with Iz--although I think we'll need cats.
We are in a tight race for the remaining city site by the corn. If Charlie makes some weedy moves we can claim a good spot, if not we may have to found on the forest coast but that should be our move with the settler. We can get a city before him. We should get a few axes over there asap as the barb city is down to 2 archers--we might get to pick it up on the cheap if Charlie weakens it for us. That and the coast city would get us communication.
VRA do you want to play a little more or turn it over?
Mystyfly is out so I'll be up next.
I'm happy to turn it over, however, if we are taking out two archers, they might as well be the ones in Madrid! A short war to take the capital, and see if we can diable their metal.
We are in a tight spot, and not pressing the issue now will likely make the noose tighter.
We are in a tight spot, and not pressing the issue now will likely make the noose tighter.
well there would be nothing simple about taking Madrid with those 2 archers.
Madrid is a 60% culture on a hill--that means 3 turns to reinforce once we attack. My guess is that we'd face around 5 archers. Not doable without a large force >10 promoted axes.
We could sneak into the barb city if Charlie misses on his first go.
I'll take it then and give it a closer look tomorrow--all help is welcome.
I play a turn to help plan a bit:
we trade alpha to Iz ( Charlie won't trade IW for Priest+alpha):
We have iron:
Charlie retreats his settler but 2 more barb archers show up next to barb city:
A few comments on the last set: we should have built WB instead of gran--no point in building gran w/o the food. Build the WB first then gran.
Our scouting axe at Madrid did leave us vulnurable to losing a city to the barbs--it needs to come home.
I'm not sure if I can play my set as my weekend looks jammed and I'm out of town next week but my thoughts are:
settle a city to claim the corn--maybe the jungle/river/coast. We might be able to culture flip the barb city from there and that also blocks Charlie from anything more.
We need an axe for sure that way for defense.
Prepare for cat war w/Iz.
Maybe go back and forth caste/slavery?
Really need some more feedback here in any case--especially from the master!
we trade alpha to Iz ( Charlie won't trade IW for Priest+alpha):
We have iron:
Charlie retreats his settler but 2 more barb archers show up next to barb city:
A few comments on the last set: we should have built WB instead of gran--no point in building gran w/o the food. Build the WB first then gran.
Our scouting axe at Madrid did leave us vulnurable to losing a city to the barbs--it needs to come home.
I'm not sure if I can play my set as my weekend looks jammed and I'm out of town next week but my thoughts are:
settle a city to claim the corn--maybe the jungle/river/coast. We might be able to culture flip the barb city from there and that also blocks Charlie from anything more.
We need an axe for sure that way for defense.
Prepare for cat war w/Iz.
Maybe go back and forth caste/slavery?
Really need some more feedback here in any case--especially from the master!
pigswill
fly (one day)
First thing to do, now we've got IW, is to mine the gems. Maybe 'keep it simple' and build a couple of swords to have a go at those barb cities while growing our cities and work some more cottages. I'll wait for the clever people to post the clever ideas.
Are we looking for another player due to mystyfly's departure?
Are we looking for another player due to mystyfly's departure?
Oh dear -- how come our 4 workers are all on the same plot? It is so bad to have them working in huge groups -- it wastes so many movement points. 
Izzy has enough on her hands. I thought we agreed to go Buddhist until this happened but maybe it wasn't clear. Now we can't know whether she's after us or someone/something else. The [negative] modifier wouldn't have been enough to bring Charlemagne to annoyed either way and would be removed immediately once we went into NST/Judaism while it would keep us pleased with Izzy.
Antioch needs a solid defender. It's a huge gamble to leave it with just a warrior. I score pretty high on barb-paranoia (or just general civ paranoia
) -- better safe than sorry.
Madrid has 60% and Izzy has ivory. If we attack and she gets WEs we're in an awful position. There are good barbarian cities to take anyway and they will come by much easier.
As things stand I suggest CS -> liberalism (lightbulbing). Our capital needs bureaucracy and when we get to liberalism we can trade to guilds. However, before that we have to get monotheism for OR. Now that Izzy has enough on her hands we might as well adopt Judaism. If we add OR to that we should get Ramesses to friendly and this will let us trade for mathematics even if noone else gets it in the meantime.
Trade-wise I'd give IW+priesthood to Ramesses for poly+sailing. The faster we get OR the faster we'll get friendly with him. I'd consider gifting Alphabet as well cuz Charlemagne refused deals meaning he's about to finish it. That means he and Ramesses will start trading techs leaving us with less leverage. If we're lucky we'll get a lot of [positive] relations for fair trade which again gets us to friendly faster. We can use CoL to trade for mathematics.
Empire-wise I'd start growing cities when possible and pre-chop some forests to get a barracks + CR swordsmen out as fast as possible once mathematics is in.
P.S. Judaism would get us more happiness (we have an unhappy citizen) and the route to liberalism lets us pick up the UoS for more research. That wonder is going to be excellent taking the variant, our spiritual trait and how were being flooed with religions into consideration.
I just can't understand why our workers are having a party on a forest tile nearby our capital when Antioch is struggling to get a work boat for centuries now and is working a 0/0/3 tile. If we had a worker there to chop a forest we could be working the fish instead!
Izzy has enough on her hands. I thought we agreed to go Buddhist until this happened but maybe it wasn't clear. Now we can't know whether she's after us or someone/something else. The [negative] modifier wouldn't have been enough to bring Charlemagne to annoyed either way and would be removed immediately once we went into NST/Judaism while it would keep us pleased with Izzy.
Antioch needs a solid defender. It's a huge gamble to leave it with just a warrior. I score pretty high on barb-paranoia (or just general civ paranoia
) -- better safe than sorry.Madrid has 60% and Izzy has ivory. If we attack and she gets WEs we're in an awful position. There are good barbarian cities to take anyway and they will come by much easier.
As things stand I suggest CS -> liberalism (lightbulbing). Our capital needs bureaucracy and when we get to liberalism we can trade to guilds. However, before that we have to get monotheism for OR. Now that Izzy has enough on her hands we might as well adopt Judaism. If we add OR to that we should get Ramesses to friendly and this will let us trade for mathematics even if noone else gets it in the meantime.
Trade-wise I'd give IW+priesthood to Ramesses for poly+sailing. The faster we get OR the faster we'll get friendly with him. I'd consider gifting Alphabet as well cuz Charlemagne refused deals meaning he's about to finish it. That means he and Ramesses will start trading techs leaving us with less leverage. If we're lucky we'll get a lot of [positive] relations for fair trade which again gets us to friendly faster. We can use CoL to trade for mathematics.
Empire-wise I'd start growing cities when possible and pre-chop some forests to get a barracks + CR swordsmen out as fast as possible once mathematics is in.
P.S. Judaism would get us more happiness (we have an unhappy citizen) and the route to liberalism lets us pick up the UoS for more research. That wonder is going to be excellent taking the variant, our spiritual trait and how were being flooed with religions into consideration.
I just can't understand why our workers are having a party on a forest tile nearby our capital when Antioch is struggling to get a work boat for centuries now and is working a 0/0/3 tile. If we had a worker there to chop a forest we could be working the fish instead!
Rusten:
Yes it's hard to see what was going on with the workers when worker turns are still so important. They still have their move this turn--I wasn't sure how many to send to the gems.
Why is Izzie's ivory such a big deal? I generally find that the AI don't build that many jumbos anyway, and bringing a couple of spears along takes away the sting. Especially in this case, where we have a prize capital that is not too far so we'd come with a mess of cats. If she ends up in an early war and without friends it's possible we could get her pre-lb, which would be a much bigger deal.
Do you think we can wait until after lib for a war of expansion? I was thinking that waiting really risks things--Iz could lose a war and we could get boxed in. Madrid is a huge prize.
I don't think I'll have time to play my set before I leave town so can you take this one?
Yes it's hard to see what was going on with the workers when worker turns are still so important. They still have their move this turn--I wasn't sure how many to send to the gems.
Why is Izzie's ivory such a big deal? I generally find that the AI don't build that many jumbos anyway, and bringing a couple of spears along takes away the sting. Especially in this case, where we have a prize capital that is not too far so we'd come with a mess of cats. If she ends up in an early war and without friends it's possible we could get her pre-lb, which would be a much bigger deal.
Do you think we can wait until after lib for a war of expansion? I was thinking that waiting really risks things--Iz could lose a war and we could get boxed in. Madrid is a huge prize.
I don't think I'll have time to play my set before I leave town so can you take this one?
Sure, I can take it.
We should be able to stop a war by bribes (philosophy for instance). Either way, I'd think Izzy can hold her own vs. these weaklings -- especially seeing as she has ivory. Even if dogpiled I doubt she'd lose many (if any) cities. What I'm worried about is who Izzy is planning to attack.
I was thinking we could go for liberalism and trade for the lower techs and take something towards steel as free tech (chemistry). It's hard to plan to detail so far in advance, but if we adopt a religion we should get friendly with leaders which makes trading for feudalism/MC/machinery/engineering/etc much easier.
In my last SP games I've played a little different from my usual ways and focused on growing cities over a whip-fest and I think this is the right approach here given all the grassland and rivers. Something I often do coupled with this is to pre-make horse archers and then upgrade them to knights or cuirassiers once I'm ready to go to war. This works especially well if you pick economics from liberalism (preferrably self-researched if there's time). Something like that should work here. We can start a military build-up before liberalism/guilds and then upgrade our units with a GM or two.
My feeling is that a war with units that are about to get outdated vs Izzy's units turtling in cities + some WEs is going to be very costly. Spain has MC which means that she's only 1 tech away from machinery (x-bows) which would completely kill us. Izzy's tech speed has been very quick as well so I wouldn't say it's an impossible scenario.
We should be able to stop a war by bribes (philosophy for instance). Either way, I'd think Izzy can hold her own vs. these weaklings -- especially seeing as she has ivory. Even if dogpiled I doubt she'd lose many (if any) cities. What I'm worried about is who Izzy is planning to attack.
I was thinking we could go for liberalism and trade for the lower techs and take something towards steel as free tech (chemistry). It's hard to plan to detail so far in advance, but if we adopt a religion we should get friendly with leaders which makes trading for feudalism/MC/machinery/engineering/etc much easier.
In my last SP games I've played a little different from my usual ways and focused on growing cities over a whip-fest and I think this is the right approach here given all the grassland and rivers. Something I often do coupled with this is to pre-make horse archers and then upgrade them to knights or cuirassiers once I'm ready to go to war. This works especially well if you pick economics from liberalism (preferrably self-researched if there's time). Something like that should work here. We can start a military build-up before liberalism/guilds and then upgrade our units with a GM or two.
My feeling is that a war with units that are about to get outdated vs Izzy's units turtling in cities + some WEs is going to be very costly. Spain has MC which means that she's only 1 tech away from machinery (x-bows) which would completely kill us. Izzy's tech speed has been very quick as well so I wouldn't say it's an impossible scenario.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Sounds good enough to me. Bit confused over one point: you mention taking economics or chemistry from lib and also favour miltrad for cuirassiers. Maybe go for a less ambitious target, nationalism from lib and maybe use Great Artists for bulbing music and/or miltrad.
If Isabella is going for us then much of the discussion could become academic very quickly. Good luck!
If Isabella is going for us then much of the discussion could become academic very quickly. Good luck!
Favouring cuirassiers was just generally speaking -- that's not the case here with our UU. What I meant was that we can skip Nationalism/MT overall (trade for it later) and pursue steel instead. We'll have our UU at guilds, and the cuirassiers are only marginally better -- not worth all the beakers. Actually they might be worse as they cost 10 more hammers (assuming our UU has the same cost as a regular knight). It's better to get economics to upgrade and/or chemistry -> steel for cannon support.
It shouldn't be that hard getting economics from liberalism assuming we have one or more friendly AIs to trade with. The AIs usually favour the lower tech tree (at least those we're sparring with here) so it shouldn't be that hard trading to banking (required for economics IIRC). Of course, there's always the chance of something going wrong and if so nationalism is OK.
Another reason to skip the nat line (and trade for it) is that we seem to be heading into a long-term struggle with Izzy and that means we'll capture the Pyramids for representation later on so we don't need constitution.
It shouldn't be that hard getting economics from liberalism assuming we have one or more friendly AIs to trade with. The AIs usually favour the lower tech tree (at least those we're sparring with here) so it shouldn't be that hard trading to banking (required for economics IIRC). Of course, there's always the chance of something going wrong and if so nationalism is OK.
Another reason to skip the nat line (and trade for it) is that we seem to be heading into a long-term struggle with Izzy and that means we'll capture the Pyramids for representation later on so we don't need constitution.
silverbullet
King
I agree. Izzy is most likely after her worst enemy Asoka, but we better not count on it. We should prepare our defences accordingly. We might want to spend 1 turn into walls, so in case Izzy declares on us we can whip it in Adrianopole.
It really hurts to see all those workers there. It will be 3 turns before we can start working on gems for the badly needed happiness.
It really hurts to see all those workers there. It will be 3 turns before we can start working on gems for the badly needed happiness.
Played 11 turns up to 400 BC.
Start out by making the poly+sailing deal with Ramesses. I wanted to change to Judaism, but there's still a 4 turn wait. I go ahead with an axeman in our capital and chop it as it's urgent.
One of the main issues with a SG is that you don't know/keep complete track of what's agreed upon and what's not been done anything about. Another one of these situations occurred when Izzy asks us to stop trading with Asoka. I mentioned stopping trade with Asoka earlier but I guess it was forgotten. I accept Izzy's request.
Settle Nicomedia.
Shortly after Asoka has monarchy which could be traded for using CoL, but unfortunately he refuses to speak with us as we stopped trading with him as Izzy requested. We miss out on monarchy.
Fortunately we're able to get a good deal to compensate for lacking happiness.
Izzy declares on Asoka turn 96.
By turn 97 Ramesses has monarchy as well and I decided to go ahead and trade before it's too late. This will make it hard to trade for mathematics, but the opportunity might not be there the next turn.
Find a hut guarded by a warrior to the north, but as always I pop barbarians. I wonder if someone edited my goody hut files because I can't remember popping anything but barbarians the last couple of months.
Trade copper to Charlemagne for ivory as we're about to hook up iron anyway.
I was planning to play on to turn 100 to get even numbers but I decided to cut it short for suspense. What we decide to do should be fairly obvious, but I can let you in on the decision anyway.
I've been keeping an axe nearby Hun waiting for an opportunity like the one at hand. Currently there's just 1 barbarian archer left and a bunch of rival units ready to take the city the next turn. If we don't go for it now we'll lose it. Our battle odds aren't higher than 23.1%, but IMO that's very good odds to take a city for free -- it even has a worker inside. In hindsight I should've moved our warrior over there as well to soften up any single archers, but I assumed Charlemagne would take it due to the size of his stack.
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Empire-wise we have a lot of happiness right now so let's continue growing our capital (cottages). I've started working on our first GS.
Constantinople grows next turn so assign that cottage to the capital then. Put the cottage citizen on the grassland mine instead. It's going to yield 4
which gives us 1 extra from OR and we want that granary before continuing to grow anyway.
Research-wise both mathematics and currency is tempting. Going currency gives is an extra trade route and trade bait for calendar/mathematics. However, we'll have philosophy soon so it's not necessary. Getting currency first also slows down CS so I think I'm in favour of mathematics -> CS. Currency is less important than usual taking the variant into account. Selling techs and similar for a higher science slider isn't effective without the bonus buildings. We also need mathematics ASAP to chop out some CR swordsmen.
Charlemagne is still cautious so it is tempting to give him monarchy or something to bump him up to pleased.
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With Ungy being unavailable right now that puts Silverbullet up I believe. However, if everybody's busy I don't mind playing on.
Start out by making the poly+sailing deal with Ramesses. I wanted to change to Judaism, but there's still a 4 turn wait. I go ahead with an axeman in our capital and chop it as it's urgent.
One of the main issues with a SG is that you don't know/keep complete track of what's agreed upon and what's not been done anything about. Another one of these situations occurred when Izzy asks us to stop trading with Asoka. I mentioned stopping trade with Asoka earlier but I guess it was forgotten. I accept Izzy's request.
Settle Nicomedia.
Shortly after Asoka has monarchy which could be traded for using CoL, but unfortunately he refuses to speak with us as we stopped trading with him as Izzy requested. We miss out on monarchy.
Fortunately we're able to get a good deal to compensate for lacking happiness.
Izzy declares on Asoka turn 96.
By turn 97 Ramesses has monarchy as well and I decided to go ahead and trade before it's too late. This will make it hard to trade for mathematics, but the opportunity might not be there the next turn.
Find a hut guarded by a warrior to the north, but as always I pop barbarians. I wonder if someone edited my goody hut files because I can't remember popping anything but barbarians the last couple of months.
Trade copper to Charlemagne for ivory as we're about to hook up iron anyway.
I was planning to play on to turn 100 to get even numbers but I decided to cut it short for suspense. What we decide to do should be fairly obvious, but I can let you in on the decision anyway.
I've been keeping an axe nearby Hun waiting for an opportunity like the one at hand. Currently there's just 1 barbarian archer left and a bunch of rival units ready to take the city the next turn. If we don't go for it now we'll lose it. Our battle odds aren't higher than 23.1%, but IMO that's very good odds to take a city for free -- it even has a worker inside. In hindsight I should've moved our warrior over there as well to soften up any single archers, but I assumed Charlemagne would take it due to the size of his stack.
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Empire-wise we have a lot of happiness right now so let's continue growing our capital (cottages). I've started working on our first GS.
Constantinople grows next turn so assign that cottage to the capital then. Put the cottage citizen on the grassland mine instead. It's going to yield 4
which gives us 1 extra from OR and we want that granary before continuing to grow anyway.Research-wise both mathematics and currency is tempting. Going currency gives is an extra trade route and trade bait for calendar/mathematics. However, we'll have philosophy soon so it's not necessary. Getting currency first also slows down CS so I think I'm in favour of mathematics -> CS. Currency is less important than usual taking the variant into account. Selling techs and similar for a higher science slider isn't effective without the bonus buildings. We also need mathematics ASAP to chop out some CR swordsmen.
Charlemagne is still cautious so it is tempting to give him monarchy or something to bump him up to pleased.
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With Ungy being unavailable right now that puts Silverbullet up I believe. However, if everybody's busy I don't mind playing on.
