UNGY7 We'll do it by ourself

[ungy]

>>didn't know that--if anyone can confirm that would be great.

^ confirmed

if (isHasMet((TeamTypes)iI))
{
[B]	if (canDeclareWar((TeamTypes)iI))[/B] //returns false during forced peace
	{
		if (iNoWarRoll >= AI_noWarAttitudeProb(AI_getAttitude((TeamTypes)iI)))
....

So it's safe to assume she is after you...

as a sidebar in another game I'm playing (actually the Immortal U Justinian) I had this exact situation today. I bribe AI-AI peace, then maybe 2 turns later the aggressor goes into war mode again. I assume I'm the target but it was the same AI again.
Is there anything else in the code that might explain this?

 

[bestsss]

Ok, ungy, I will have to check deeper...

 

[ungy]

@Duckweed
While Rheims is defendable, she has cuirassiers if I read the tech. screen well.

that's a good spot--and unfortunately so does Willie.
The Ottomans have chem, and neither chem nor MT is monopoly so we're definately at risk of a trade.

Also I am not sure but if you declare her 1st and kill some caravels she might be willing to sign peace after some turns.

Don't they also look at power--and her's is enourmous. So I think that'd cost us dearly.

 

[bestsss]

Hmm... did you bribe Boudica out of the war? If so, I may need to check the code if the war can end w/ a cease fire (logic explanation) w/ the human bribes. Another very length function... (over 600 rows, didnt the dev. boss tell not to wrote functions over 30-40 or one screen)

This time I am not perfectly sure but if you bribe the stronger side I think there will be no forcePeace and the AI would be free to consider war... Need more checks and finally to get some real IDE (checking w/ notepad alike tools is just weird, I don't normally do C++ at all)

Edit2: almost certain, bribing AIs out of war doesn't make forced peace between them, so it's cease fire.

 

[Silu]

as a sidebar in another game I'm playing (actually the Immortal U Justinian) I had this exact situation today. I bribe AI-AI peace, then maybe 2 turns later the aggressor goes into war mode again. I assume I'm the target but it was the same AI again.
Is there anything else in the code that might explain this?

Indeed, bribing an AI-AI war to end is different. You can immediately bribe them back to war, too. They need to make peace on their own to get forced peace. I'm guessing bribing out of peace has different rules since it can't happen for a war a human is participating in.

EDIT: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think AIs can also bribe other AIs to DoW on the human even if there's a forced peace between the human and the DoWing AI. Not 100% sure about this though like I am of the above.

 

[bestsss]

>>Silu: Correct me if I'm wrong...
It should not be possible unless the civ goes into vassal mode or something that cancels the forced peace.

TRADE_WAR [in CvPlayer::doDiplo()] checks call canTradeItem on the civ being bribe which in effect call canDeclareWar (player)

___
Although I also thought it had happened to me

 

[SnowlyWhite]

@Duckweed

turn 199

meet monty and willy... obviously willy kinda gets beaten by monty
boudica is wheohrn so... guess who given the peace treaty with izzy didn't expire yet Us or willy... I say us

start he in washington

turn 200



right... and what else? send her packing.

ok, didn't check her constantly, but checked her before she actually asked...
mind you, couldn't check her till I've met willy in 199, since she couldn't declare on izzy(still peace) and sully was still her vassal.

regarding the other discussion

Indeed, bribing an AI-AI war to end is different. You can immediately bribe them back to war, too. They need to make peace on their own to get forced peace. I'm guessing bribing out of peace has different rules since it can't happen for a war a human is participating in.

that's what I know too; bribing end of war means cf, so they can redeclare next turn.

 

[bestsss]

>>Don't they also look at power--and her's is enourmous. So I think that'd cost us dearly.

Yes, power ratio is included but it's a multiplier only. The base is the number of the cities (of both teams) *3 and added population of both teams as well.
Then it comes the "war success", killing a unit in defense is 60, when attacking is 80 added to the winning party.
Nukes and city captures are 200 and capturing worker/settler: 20.

Then the result is modified by the power ratio, something like:
result *= theirPower / (theirPower+ ourPower). (not the same since that implies non-integer math)

Whoever party has the higher result is considered winning the war.

If the AI thinks it has higher power soundly ( difference > 20%, it will be the case), it may inflate the value due to financial troubles or trying to win domination.
If the AI has planned TOTAL_WAR, it doubles the value, so if the human declares the AI will be more likely to have peace than preparing itself.

To match the base (i.e. cities + population) modified by power simply by killing caravels (it's a bit weird since it doesn't matter what you kill, it's all the same) probably it is not going to be easy since the AI wont keep the caravels out.
Note: if you kill w/ a privateer it doesn't count towards the war success or war weariness even in war.

So, I guess it's steel, military science and killing the invasion fleet. Navigation bonus also helps here

 

[ungy]

I play to steel just to see if there are any surprises--there aren't.

I send out the settler in the galleon looking for land--doesn't look too good.

Boudica techs chem this turn and Ottomans tech MT. She's upgraded her knights to cur.

Boudica needs astro to reach Willie so unless her last war with Iz ended with an event as opposed to AP we're looking more like the target.

I'll play tonight teching MT-rifling. Plan to build 4 privateers to raid in pairs then SOL's.

 

[Duckweed]

@Duckweed



ok, didn't check her constantly, but checked her before she actually asked...
mind you, couldn't check her till I've met willy in 199, since she couldn't declare on izzy(still peace) and sully was still her vassal.

My fault, did not read the word part of your report carefully, I usually focus on pictures. However, this does not add much to your diplomatic choice, gifting Boudica a free tech and refuse Izzy's demand can and should be done before Boudica's demand. Even Boudica is bound to go for us, we can sue for peace immediately after sinking some of her ships. Intercontinent war vs a huge AI as the 1st choice is a very bad choice. Boudica's tech rate will speed up very fast after Astro, while our research is almost at peak and will lose military advantage pretty soon.

 

[Duckweed]

I play to steel just to see if there are any surprises--there aren't.

I send out the settler in the galleon looking for land--doesn't look too good.

Boudica techs chem this turn and Ottomans tech MT. She's upgraded her knights to cur.

Boudica needs astro to reach Willie so unless her last war with Iz ended with an event as opposed to AP we're looking more like the target.

I'll play tonight teching MT-rifling. Plan to build 4 privateers to raid in pairs then SOL's.

I don't think MT is important, if you aim for Rifling 1st, then SP next make more sense, several cities can get big hammer boost from levee. Also I'd hold privateers or send them to Monty's continent since Boudica will have Frigate soon.

 

[ungy]

I don't think MT is important, if you aim for Rifling 1st, then SP next make more sense, several cities can get big hammer boost from levee. Also I'd hold privateers or send them to Monty's continent since Boudica will have Frigate soon.

hmm now I'm confused.
if we build privateers shouldn't we sink what we can of Boudica's then head to other continent?
I thought the whole point was that we can defend the seas better than the land.

I was also planning to scout to find Boudica's navy and maybe drop a spy in to see if her SOD is trapped by Spanish culture.

I'm going to wait a bit for some more comments as I don't feel I have a proper grasp.

 

[ungy]

Boudica's tech rate will speed up very fast after Astro, while our research is almost at peak and will lose military advantage pretty soon.

why will she go so fast?
there are 2 AI on other continent Monte and Willie and she only trades with Willie.
Both Willie and Boudica are in merc.

 

[ungy]

Not to flog a dead horse on this but the war between Iz and Boudica ended after 2 turns. Two possibilities--AP or event. AP clearly most likely but does anyone know if the event is a ceasefire or peace treaty?


I'm still thinking we're better off trying to defend navally. The land SOD has very few ships, so they will come in piecemeal. If she declares on us before getting her stack together then we can most likely prevent it from ever getting together and maybe get peace before she lands anything. Something like 10-12 SOL +4-6 privateers should be pretty effective I think, and given the bonus that's really only 10-12 land units.

MT is also only a 3 or 4 turn delay on rifling--seems worth it IMHO. We have 2 GM left, maybe save the next GP for a GA to go into nat/theo at rifling?

 

[Duckweed]

hmm now I'm confused.
if we build privateers shouldn't we sink what we can of Boudica's then head to other continent?
I thought the whole point was that we can defend the seas better than the land.

I was also planning to scout to find Boudica's navy and maybe drop a spy in to see if her SOD is trapped by Spanish culture.

I'm going to wait a bit for some more comments as I don't feel I have a proper grasp.

By the time you have privateers ready to her sea, she will have Astro and can instantly promote some caravels to frigates. So they only have use if we stay at the war with her so that they can get protection from SoLs. I'd rather sue for peace as soon as possible.

 

[Duckweed]

why will she go so fast?
there are 2 AI on other continent Monte and Willie and she only trades with Willie.
Both Willie and Boudica are in merc.

Obs, and I don't expect them to stay in merc for long.

 

[Duckweed]

Not to flog a dead horse on this but the war between Iz and Boudica ended after 2 turns. Two possibilities--AP or event. AP clearly most likely but does anyone know if the event is a ceasefire or peace treaty?


I'm still thinking we're better off trying to defend navally. The land SOD has very few ships, so they will come in piecemeal. If she declares on us before getting her stack together then we can most likely prevent it from ever getting together and maybe get peace before she lands anything. Something like 10-12 SOL +4-6 privateers should be pretty effective I think, and given the bonus that's really only 10-12 land units.

MT is also only a 3 or 4 turn delay on rifling--seems worth it IMHO. We have 2 GM left, maybe save the next GP for a GA to go into nat/theo at rifling?

100% sure Boudica will DOW us since we refused her demand. Cavs won't do much help. Drafting riflemans and producing cannons is easier.

 

[ungy]

100% sure Boudica will DOW us since we refused her demand. Cavs won't do much help. Drafting riflemans and producing cannons is easier.

my bad I meant MS for the SOL which delays probably 4 turns to rifling

 

[SnowlyWhite]

Intercontinent war vs a huge AI as the 1st choice is a very bad choice. Boudica's tech rate will speed up very fast after Astro, while our research is almost at peak and will lose military advantage pretty soon.

well, that's my prob. too and that's why I want her 1st... with us declaring when we're ready if she doesn't declare till then. Land on hill, let her suicide, whatever... Plus look at this continent land - it's rich; now compare with the undeveloped crap we'd probably get from monty... with cities with 1-2 buildings each...

 

[Dirk1302]

Since we started on MS we should finish it i think. Boudica'll have frigates after astro, SOL's eat them. The initial idea was to defend at sea,or are we now switching to defence on land? A choice should be made since it leads to different techpaths and different build priorities in the cities