Unique Abilities discussion

[Glassmage]

What do you guys think of the UA's so far?

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's
Byzantium - get a 6th belief for religion
Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - units can cross over mountains after 1st Great General spawn, but lose 50hp if end turn on mountain. Free harbors in coastal cities.
Celtic - More faith near forest
Ethiopia - units get more strength if enemies have more cities.
Huns - Scourge of God - raze cities 2x faster. Immediate access to Animal Husbandry, +1 production for Pasture.
Maya - time/calendar related
Netherlands - East India Company - luxuries can be traded but you still have access to its happiness.
Sweden - Nobel Prize - something diplomacy related involve major civs, city states, and great people.


I think all of them are great, but I hoped Carthage get a unique harbor, Cothon, instead of free harbors. :\

 

[GenjiKhan]

I liked the ideas of the Netherland's UA and the Austria's UA . They are a very original ideias of UA and I guess both of them would be very popular in Single player games and Multiplayer games . I'm looking forward to know which will be the Mayan's UA and the UA of the last Civ .

 

[Louis XXIV]

Re: Carthage. There's a slight problem giving them a Cothon UB in the sense that the Cothon was a single thing. Then again, we have Colosseums, so they haven't been entirely faithful there.

I think Austria is fun, Carthage and Celts are pragmatic, but the Dutch seem overpowered. That being said, their UU and UI might not be overwhelmingly powerful, so it might even out.

I also think Byzantines and Ethiopians are situational. For the former, it depends on how powerful the religious beliefs are. For the latter, I'd have fun making an impenetrable fortress civ, but that doesn't translate into a victory. For the Huns, I'm not a huge fan since I didn't find the delay razing cities to be all that bothersome. However, their UUs will probably more than make up for this.

 

[ehecatzin]

Im really liking the UA's all have very original concepts.

Carthage may not get the Cothon, but free harbors is a really good ability, you can set up a very efficient and productive naval empire with relative ease. dont forget naval combat is going to be useful now.

Austria UA is also very interesting, being able to assimilate CS is going to be real fun, and make for very interesting games.

Ethiopia Im not very eager to play, but I am to play against, a ver defensive, well stacked Ethiopia with the right wonders, civics and religion will be a challenge to conquer.

And Im dying to know the Mayan UA, Im hoping they get some UI for jungles, or any way to thrive in other way difficult tropical terrain.

 

[PhilBowles]

What do you guys think of the UA's so far?

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's

Depending on how it works, a very interesting option. Diplo victory is the one fewest civs are optimised for, and only two existing abilities really play with it - Greece (keep CS influence) and Mongolia (grab CSes by force). There's a lot of design space there.

Byzantium - get a 6th belief for religion

From what we've seen of beliefs so far, likely to be trivial. Five is too many as a default, as there aren't really that many terribly desirable ones. A sixth isn't going to be necessary for anyone.

Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - units can cross over mountains after 1st Great General spawn, but lose 50hp if end turn on mountain. Free harbors in coastal cities.

First ability is fairly stupid but at least lets you have that fun graphic of an elephant with a mountain - units within a GG's influence radius can use it maybe makes more sense than 'any time after you first get a GG', but either way you get the oddity that the Carthaginians can traverse mountains while the Inca can't (yet anyone can somehow build Macchu Picchu on top of one regardless).

Free harbours is interesting - again trade is unexploited in UAs and it's nice to have a Civ that benefits from settling on the coast. Especially if they're the AI and you're Denmark.

Celtic - More faith near forest

It will depend how faith pans out, but so far I find religion the least interesting element of G&K and I doubt I'd pick a civ that relies on it.

Ethiopia - units get more strength if enemies have more cities.

This one I like - it's a novel approach to peaceful, likely culture-focused (possibly depending on what the Ethiopian UB turns out to be) development.

Huns - Scourge of God - raze cities 2x faster. Immediate access to Animal Husbandry, +1 production for Pasture.

Potentially strong, but I can't find it interesting.

Maya - time/calendar related

Can't comment since we don't know what it is yet. However I understand it to be Calendar related - i.e. Calendar the technology, possibly something similar to Huns getting free Animal Husbandry and a bonus from its improvements. Nothing to do with time.

Netherlands - East India Company - luxuries can be traded but you still have access to its happiness.

Not very distinct in practice from the Arabian bazaar effect; the least original, hence interesting, of the new UAs, while also potentially the most powerful.

 

[Haig]

I wonder about Byzantine and Celts, is that it?
I think/hope Byzantine at least gets something in addition to the sixth belief. (my suggestion: all religious buildings give defense boost to cities. Constantinople was damn hard to conquer)

Also doesn't Ethiopia have also defense bonus for units near capital?

Civ V UAs make the Civ 3 & 4 traits look boring.

 

[PhilBowles]

I wonder about Byzantine and Celts, is that it?
I think/hope Byzantine at least gets something in addition to the sixth belief. (my suggestion: all religious buildings give defense boost to cities. Constantinople was damn hard to conquer)

Also doesn't Ethiopia have also defense bonus for units near capital?

Civ V UAs make the Civ 3 & 4 traits look boring.

In fairness, Civ 4 traits made the Civ 4 traits look boring...

 

[Draskar]

From what we've seen of beliefs so far, likely to be trivial. Five is too many as a default, as there aren't really that many terribly desirable ones. A sixth isn't going to be necessary for anyone.

I not agree, Byzantium gains the sixth belieft at the start of the Religion Path, not at the end (IMHO), so you have a bonus from the start and it's different every game! (if you don't chose always the same).

 

[anandus]

Where was the Dutch UA confirmed? Afaik it's only speculation?

 

[Optional]

Celtic - More faith near forest

It will depend how faith pans out, but so far I find religion the least interesting element of G&K and I doubt I'd pick a civ that relies on it.

I'm guessing the opposite will happen for a lot of players, I see a lot of players getting addicted to the Celts, like Dennis Shirk apparently already is.
The Celts start with Faith as the only civ in the game, and also their warriors earn faith, so as Celts you'll be favourite to develop your religion first and have the first pick from the pool of beliefs.
If you can pick the right beliefs for your fledgling civilization, and early, it'll be a good boost.

I'm personally afraid that putting both faith bonuses with the same civ is bad for balance. If the Pictish Warrior earns faith (although it's only 1 point per kill, which doesn't seem like much), I rather would have seen another civ starting with a terrain faith bonus. Arabs from desert or something.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Where was the Dutch UA confirmed? Afaik it's only speculation?

It's never been speculation. It was an early article. The problem is it's a translated article so it's difficult to tell exactly what they meant by it.

 

[headcase]

What do you guys think of the UA's so far?

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's

Awesome, very unique, probably the first civ I'll play.

Byzantium - get a 6th belief for religion

Hard to comment with the info so far, but seems like a good differentiator

Carthage - Phoenician Heritage - units can cross over mountains after 1st Great General spawn, but lose 50hp if end turn on mountain. Free harbors in coastal cities.

The harbors thing sounds like the most important side of this UA. I wonder if mountains are "rough"? Then only scouts and fast units would be able to avoid the damage... overall I'm lukewarm on this one.

Celtic - More faith near forest

Doesn't sound super interesting but it could be. Again not enough info.

Ethiopia - units get more strength if enemies have more cities.

Cool! Wonder whether this is a true\false scenario, or if the strength builds up more if they have way more cities. Either way, tall is the way to go.

Huns - Scourge of God - raze cities 2x faster. Immediate access to Animal Husbandry, +1 production for Pasture.

Didn't expect a tech advantage for the huns. Overall, seems ok. I'd feel obliged to conquer and raze a lot just because of the UA (even though it doesn't award culture or gold or anything), so that helps make them unique as I've only razed one city ever.

Maya - time/calendar related

Probably a bonus for each year of a new Mayan calendar cycle. So the frequency of those would go down over time, and probably the bonuses would become bigger to compensate. Hope it's good.

Netherlands - East India Company - luxuries can be traded but you still have access to its happiness.

Encourages more trade, therefore you want to keep in better diplo standing, so that helps make this one unique.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

The harbors thing sounds like the most important side of this UA.

Free insta-built trade route seems pretty solid if you ask me. Haha.

The mountain thing is a cool flavor though.

 

[Louis XXIV]

The purpose of the Carthaginian ability is the free harbors. The mountain thing is just for fun, designed to literally represent Hannibal. I wouldn't focus too much on that.

 

[Deggial]

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's

The question is: Does "absorb" mean, that the former CS will be one of your own cities, just as if it was conquered/built by yourself? I read it like this.

But then, you will loose all special benefits granted by this CS. Is THIS is worth it? Isn't an allied CS way more profitable than a additional city in your empire (with increasing happiness drain and resources you might own already)?

I'm not so convinced about this UA, to be honest (if it works like this)!

 

[eazyseeker]

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's

The question is: Does "absorb" mean, that the former CS will be one of your own cities, just as if it was conquered/built by yourself? I read it like this.

But then, you will loose all special benefits granted by this CS. Is THIS is worth it? Isn't an allied CS way more profitable than a additional city in your empire (with increasing happiness drain and resources you might own already)?

I'm not so convinced about this UA, to be honest (if it works like this)!

I'm pondering upon this too.

If it is as you say, then it wouldn't be that worthwhile.

However, IF you could annex the CS AND get to keep ally-level bonuses, then that would be awesome.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I like the Austrian one. I always enjoyed peacefully absorbing cities in Civ IV.

Byzantium: I think there is more to it yet to be revealed.

Celts: Same

Carthage: Mountain crossing won't be as useful as it seems, I think. The free harbors are a major economic boon.

Ethiopia: It's interesting but not really my thing. If you want to be aggressive, you have to take on bigger enemies to take advantage of it.

Maya: More information required. It sounds unique though.

Netherlands: Simple yet powerful. It will make them an economic powerhouse.

 

[GenjiKhan]

Austria - Diplomatic Marriage - absorb CS's

The question is: Does "absorb" mean, that the former CS will be one of your own cities, just as if it was conquered/built by yourself? I read it like this.

But then, you will loose all special benefits granted by this CS. Is THIS is worth it? Isn't an allied CS way more profitable than a additional city in your empire (with increasing happiness drain and resources you might own already)?

I'm not so convinced about this UA, to be honest (if it works like this)!

If it is as you say, then it wouldn't be that worthwhile.

You can't compare a recently founded city with a city-state . Recently annexed City-states are superior compared to cities founded because their terrain is already improved and their structure is already built . And Most of the Natural Wonders in the game spawns near a city-state border . But since everthing has a price and with City-state annexion is not different,then Austrian's settlers will remain important(as long as there's land deserve to be settled) .

However, IF you could annex the CS AND get to keep ally-level bonuses, then that would be awesome.

Unless the requirements for peacefully annexing CS are very high,this possibility might turn out to be awfully very overpowered .

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

You forget that the peacefully annexed CS can't be allied by one of the AI's either, so absorbing it keeps it from helping your competition. Austria will be especially infuriating for Siam and Greece.

 

[headcase]

The obvious (probable) advantages of taking a CS peacefully are:
- no drop in population
- no warmonger diplo hit (very important)
- no need for units

You will likely lose the CS bonus, but at least you don't have pay into it or do favors to keep them allied, and can focus on another CS (or whatever). Admittedly, you probably need to ally with them before you can annex them though, which would mean a definite loss in bonus.

And they probably don't keep their UN vote but if they did that would be good too.