Unique Ability Elimination Thread

[woodshadows]

Sacrificial Captives: 20
Phoenician Heritage: 1
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 13
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 27
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 19
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 11
Nobel Prize: 18

phoenician heritage - again, unless you're playing archipelago type map this UA either forces you into a long coastal empire strategy (which is difficult to defend and generally has poor production), or you don't build coastal and don't get to take advantage of the major part of the UA. Crossing mountains isn't bad but what a weak civ overall, two of the worst UU's as well, a non-ranged trireme replacement and an overpriced slowmoving mounted unit - I'd take war chariots or war elephants over either of these, at least they're ranged units and require no resource to build and are fast.

Hellenic League - plain awesome, super powerful, it's great to cheaply ally a militaristic city state, a maritime and a cultural city state and mercantile city state - just four, which is easily done with Alexander and effectively save yourself from having to build an army, granaries, culture buildings, happiness buildings - freeing you up to either wonderspam or build even more of any of the above, for super culture social policy speed or huge armies.

 

[Cowhead]

Sacrificial Captives: 20
Phoenician Heritage: 1
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 14 (+1)
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 27
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 19
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 11
Nobel Prize: 15 (-3)

Sun Never Sets - Gives you extra naval/embarked movement which can lead to meeting more CSs, more Civs, better naval strategies and faster exploration. Plus a nice extra spy which helps with stealing/protecting techs.

Noble Prize - Is a nice UA if you're going for a peaceful approach to the game but making friends is generally not in my game plan.

 

[Crafty Bison]

I appreciate that playing all 30+ civs takes a long time, but some of the reasons given seem a little off to me:
Does anyone that's actually played with Sweden think they're a peaceful civ?
Does anyone that's actually played with Persia think you need to focus on hapiness?

UA's like Chinas, Koreas, Russias etc. are strong but people seem to know what they're doing when they downvote these civs. I actually think that at this stage, Nobel prize is one of the weaker ones and have no problem with a downvoe for it at all, but it being imo one of the most fun ones I'm wondering if people are playing the same game as me. Those that downvote it cos it's too peaceful seem to be entirely missing the point of the UA.

 

[Udey1]

try Deity standard size pangaea with standard # of players = multiple invasions with unlimited units always at tech parity or above.

Tried it (standard players/settings)/done it. Under these common settings I would actually rather have Babylon and use the science rush to attempt a run on a weak neighbor, or to try for a different victory, in which case AoW would matter even less.

Sacrificial Captives: 20
Phoenician Heritage: 1
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 14
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 27
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20 (+1)
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 8 (-3)
Nobel Prize: 15

SOJH: science has always been a pretty big key to advancing a civilization in a game about advancing your civilization. It is bland though.

Siberian Riches: It is hard to believe a UA like this outlasted other better and more flavorful UAs. It is weaker in GnK and it is just a flat modifier (on a city that will already have strong production to benefit from the modifier in the first place.)

 

[Gucumatz]

Sacrificial Captives: 20
Phoenician Heritage: 2 (+1) - I don't think this is the best UA in game [That belongs to the Andean Road ] but it is a great UA on its own right and shouldn't be this near death. Free harbors mean an extra production per sea resource from the start. Free Harbors mean your cities get instant trade routes [You can still build roads... quick connections though that help for happiness, gold, science, etc. help a ton though for further expansion] And crossing over mountains is entirely underrated. You can build roads over mountains making trade routes over long mountain ranges like no problem and outflank opposition armies without an issue. Get a Cho-Ko-Nuh/Camel Archer/Keshik city state and watch your units hit and run on mountains without an issue giving you entirely additional new fronts in warfare. Managing the mountain ability gives players a ton of options. In multiplayer I have used it for many unique attacks which the defender couldn't deal with because of the surrounding terrain. Taking the -50 hit is often worth it for shock and awe combat. Thanks to this UA I have taken out enemy civs in multiplayer with cannons and crossbows when they have had great war bombers and rifles - if you know how to use it - it is extremely deadly.
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 14
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 27
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 8
Nobel Prize: 12 (-3) Once again its just a mediocre UA in my opinion. 90 influence may be big - but you really only want to be producing great engineers/great scientists to begin with. And those you want to keep. If you accidentally create a different great person - you still have to transport it to the city state. In multiplayer that movement would almost ask for an enemy to go and kill that great person. Its just too risky in a real situation (multi). The UA gives little to no help in the early game to make up for the fact your UUs are such late game units - and overall leaves a mediocre taste in your mouth.

 

[woodshadows]

Nobel Prize: 12 (-3) Once again its just a mediocre UA in my opinion. 90 influence may be big - but you really only want to be producing great engineers/great scientists to begin with. And those you want to keep. If you accidentally create a different great person - you still have to transport it to the city state. In multiplayer that movement would almost ask for an enemy to go and kill that great person. Its just too risky in a real situation (multi). The UA gives little to no help in the early game to make up for the fact your UUs are such late game units - and overall leaves a mediocre taste in your mouth.

Actually, you reveal that you probably have never played Sweden, because if you had you'd realize that that's not the way you gift great people to a city state. Since G&K you no longer have to move a unit into city state territory, instead you go to the citystate diplomacy screen and click 'gift unit' and then click your great person (sitting safely in your own territory) and it instantly is transferred over.

Also, the UA is extremely useful early game, going honour for the free great general, gifting it to whichever citystate best suits your preferred strategy - which is enormous to have just two policies worth of turns into the game.

 

[Lordleoz]

Phoenician Heritage: 2 (+1) - I don't think this is the best UA in game [That belongs to the Andean Road ] but it is a great UA on its own right and shouldn't be this near death. Free harbors mean an extra production per sea resource from the start. Free Harbors mean your cities get instant trade routes [You can still build roads... quick connections though that help for happiness, gold, science, etc. help a ton though for further expansion] And crossing over mountains is entirely underrated. You can build roads over mountains making trade routes over long mountain ranges like no problem and outflank opposition armies without an issue. Get a Cho-Ko-Nuh/Camel Archer/Keshik city state and watch your units hit and run on mountains without an issue giving you entirely additional new fronts in warfare. Managing the mountain ability gives players a ton of options. In multiplayer I have used it for many unique attacks which the defender couldn't deal with because of the surrounding terrain. Taking the -50 hit is often worth it for shock and awe combat. Thanks to this UA I have taken out enemy civs in multiplayer with cannons and crossbows when they have had great war bombers and rifles - if you know how to use it - it is extremely deadly.

Yep, agree on your point about PH. It's not the best, but shouldn't be eliminated now (I think the best one is the Glory of Rome ). Free trade routes is awesome and actually if I play Carthage I'd rather build none roads but transport units by sea instead. The Great Lighthouse and Naval Tradition all makes this more workable.

 

[Petiscator]

Sacrificial Captives: 20
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 14
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 24
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 22
Siberian Riches: 8
Nobel Prize: 13

Nobel Prize: I'll make Woodshadows' words mine, you don't have to move the GP and it is awesomely useful early in the game with honor, provides a lot of flexibility (religious game, warring game, early bonuses in whatever you want, etc). I won't explain my reasons again, but Nobel Prize should be tried before being downvoted. It is really solid and people overrate the 10% per friendship. About the Scientists/Engineers, of course you'll keep them, you should gift all those GGs and GAs generated through warring, all those GPs generated with faith through Messiah and the GMs gifted by CSs with the Patronage policy tree.

Great Andean Road: I feel like I'm going to die by downvoting this because it seems to be a favourite of a lot of people. Honestly, I prefer Carthage's UA than this. About the trade routes, I agree that this is awesome for a wide empire, really is, but you can somehow get a similar bonus by adopting a policy tree that I can't remember the name (I think it is commerce, -25% discount on trade routes). BTW, with Carthage, you get instant trade routes and with the Incas you have to build the roads, and it takes time and a lot of workers (at least 6 turns to connect two cities if your worker was already positioned). Of course, Carthage also has a problem, that they should favour coastal cities and that's not always the case. Sure, both have their flaws. About the mountain bonus movement, I think it is really solid and helps to conquer those places, but my problem with this is that on water maps it becomes utterly useless.

 

[Udey1]

That GG use of Nobel seems great, cept you've now got two policies in honor. Is it clever? Sure, as much as it is situational.

 

[woodshadows]

That GG use of Nobel seems great, cept you've now got two policies in honor. Is it clever? Sure, as much as it is situational.

i was skeptical about it before trying it myself, but i find it works out generally in your favour. the honour opener is pretty nice and has good synergy with a cs-strategy, as it allows you to quickly kill barb camps for influence while gaining culture - so not a complete waste as a policy and then the 15% production for melee will be useful throughout the game, while not enormous it's still not a complete waste. so far i haven't tried gifting to any but cultural citystates and doing so lets me rip through liberty at a very fast pace, while in the three games ive tried it ive been fortunate in having the cs right next to me, meaning when i got rushed early i was able to effectively double my forces by sitting in citystate territory with my units fighting off the invading swarm with cs help. the other perk is having so much extra happiness early, using the citystate luxuries means you can sell off all of your own luxuries for some major gold to buy your first settler/army/another city state/whatever. i haven't tried it but if you are into religious games i could see getting an early religion being very easy gifting to a religious city state. really i would rate sweden higher in general if it weren't for having late-game units, the hakapeliitta is pretty weak imo and the carolean isn't my favourite unit, unless you have a lot of swords/muskets to upgrade trying to build these things fast enough is challenging as great war infantry come so much soon after. Plus, march isn't a great promo really except for defense, on the attack it's too easy to get hit by three things at once and just flat out die so not even get to use the healing ability, while at least on defense when you do heal it's at a rate of 20 per turn.

 

[Princeofnigeria]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 14
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 24
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 29
Siberian Riches: 8
Nobel Prize: 13

Sacraficial: The last surviving ability from my list of "Favorite Civs" I Will say it again: very good in many situations, melds perfectly with unit and building, and there aren't many lulls in usefullness (Ancient barbarians, classical first defensive war/ more barbs, medieval wars, renniassance lull, industrial wars/ those four tile barbarian Islands, modern LOTS OF wars ect.)

Achaemenid: again, self defeating, forces you to choose between being ready to fight and being better at fighting, and 10% is inneffective.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 11 (-3) Great naval UA, but the remaining ones are better in every situation. Spawn on an inland lake and tell me how great SNS is. SUCKS.
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 24
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 19
Siberian Riches: 8
Nobel Prize: 14 (+1) This is a fantastic UA. I usually give my Honor General to a religious civ. Gets me a good pantheon, usually #3 if Ethiopia and Celts are around. I almost always get the second religion. I usually jump back into tradition after those two honor policies, finish tradition, then finish honor. Into Rationalism and then order and I've got a nice warmonger civ. I agree Hakkas are weak, but this UA is bomb.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 11
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 24
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 20
Siberian Riches: 5
Nobel Prize: 14

Persias bonus is huge. Not sure what others are on about with their concerns about going to war. The movement bonus is but really big and super fun, and Persia has the economy to be at war for the entire game after say turn 60. You'll be warring when your GA's come. Puppets never hurt any strategy too much, and with the GA bonuses make a fierce empire.

SR: Who said you can only went to war with nukes? Downvote pretty much for that. I've never used a nuke when the game wasn't already decided, especially with a wide civ like Russia. I've also very rarely been lacking for Uranium. I like the early hammers, but that's about it. By mid and late game they'll be out produced by Rome, and Persia.

 

[Tabarnak]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 11
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 20
Siberian Riches: 5
Nobel Prize: 11

GAR : I tried Incas since a very long time some days ago and i can say that this UA is very nice under a large empire. Lot of GPT earned.

NP : It doesn't fit my play style. I almost always use all my gps for something else than simply give some of them to some cs. DoF bonus is not bad but not as good as other UAs around.

 

[Gucumatz]

Actually, you reveal that you probably have never played Sweden, because if you had you'd realize that that's not the way you gift great people to a city state. Since G&K you no longer have to move a unit into city state territory, instead you go to the citystate diplomacy screen and click 'gift unit' and then click your great person (sitting safely in your own territory) and it instantly is transferred over.

Also, the UA is extremely useful early game, going honour for the free great general, gifting it to whichever citystate best suits your preferred strategy - which is enormous to have just two policies worth of turns into the game.

I have played Sweden - I had been under the impression that great people [Aka civilian units in general] wouldn't be under the same effect as units from the city state menu. I haven't gifted many great people as Sweden I admit though... simply because why should I when I am focusing on great people that matter to the empire more (Great Scientists and Great Engineers) than crap great people. {I prefer to keep an extra great admiral for healing purposes in MP wars, an extra great gen for citadeling, the more options the better - and Nobel Prize actually ends up focusing on less options} A Great General is great for bullying a city state before you gift it - so you can get in the later game a decent gold (+ if you pledge its little influence lost ultimately) and then proceed to gift the unit. So thanks for telling me that the feature works for great people as well - but it still doesn't change facts.

And like I have said before. In multiplayer you can NOT afford to go honor [at least to start] 90% of the time. Liberty and tradition are too key to compete with the fact that against actual opponents gaining momentum is everything. Going honor for the great general is not only risking a ton and giving you less payout in MP and in my opinion harder SP - but one can normally gain a decent degree of city state influence by simple city state tasks (clearing barb camps, trapping city state workers so they get captured by barbs, etc)

 

[Seabastian Civ]

. . . A Great General is great for bullying a city state before you gift it - so you can get in the later game a decent gold (+ if you pledge its little influence lost ultimately) and then proceed to gift the unit . . . trapping city state workers so they get captured by barbs, etc . . .

Could you expand on these statements? I didn't know generals could be used to bully a city state. I'd only used them against city states to pop citadels and steal a luxury or natural wonder. How do you use them to bully?

Also, trapping workers sounds like a great idea. How do you do this? I would imagine you could just position two units between the CS and the worker, with a barb nearby the worker? How long does this take? I would imagine the dopey AI of the worker would cancel out the dopey AI of the barb.

 

[Gucumatz]

Could you expand on these statements? I didn't know generals could be used to bully a city state. I'd only used them against city states to pop citadels and steal a luxury or natural wonder. How do you use them to bully?

Also, trapping workers sounds like a great idea. How do you do this? I would imagine you could just position two units between the CS and the worker, with a barb nearby the worker? How long does this take? I would imagine the dopey AI of the worker would cancel out the dopey AI of the barb.

Trapping workers is easier to do in MP in my experience (Since Barbs can spawn and attack/move the same turn). You will normally see barb camps spawn near city states - with a little bit of foresight at looking at terrain, you can make sure a worker can't run away from a barb spawn)

Also Great Generals being nearby city states can be enough to bully city states. I don't know why they count as military units though I would guess. I find even a single unit + great gen will sometimes get a bully job done that otherwise wouldn't have been possible alone as well. I have gifted great gens twice as Sweden after a bully (got me gold and an ally)

 

[kamikazees]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 2
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 12
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 20
Siberian Riches: 2
Nobel Prize: 11

Sun Never Sets: This UA is fantastic if your map has water (faster move) or other AIs (spying).... oh wait, every map has those things!

Siberian Riches: +1 production is nice, if you luck out and have strategic resources. Iron and Horses are harder to sell, and then you get no benefit again until .

 

[GeorgeC5614]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 3 +1
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 12
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 20
Siberian Riches: -1 -3
Nobel Prize: 11

All the UA's still remaining are good, it is hard to pick.

Phoenician Heritage I really like the free trade routes from harbors give gold with no maintenance. You can still build land locked cities and connect them with roads to the coast which gives them trade routes as well. This UA works well with Messenger of the Gods, and God of the Sea pantheons.

Siberian Riches this is the UA I found the least useful of those left. The plus one to production is nice, but I have never found it helps enough toward the end. Extra resources are good, but I can't usually find anyone that needs them.

 

[Snoopaloop]

Sacrificial Captives: 21
Phoenician Heritage: 0
Art of War: 15
Sun Never Sets: 12
Hellenic League: 12
Great Andean Road: 25
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 21
Nobel Prize: 11

+1 Achaemenid Legacy: Being able to use a great artist to help start a blitzkrieg attack is an amazing power.

-3 Phoenician Heritage: My response to the comment backhandedly directed at me.

Phoenician Heritage is marked for death. I know one person has relentlessly downvoted it every day and it is now unlikely to see another day, but it's the best UA on the board. It allows you to get a few trade routes up fast, your first few cities to get extra production as if you had invested on a pantheon (and you still can for more production if the map is right, God of the Seas).

Yup, I'm downvoting this UA a lot because it does not deserve to be this high. You are lucky I guess, that I truly do not dislike it as much as patriach of constantinople...we see were that ended up! And no. It is not the best UA on the board. It's a joke its above Ingenuity and a few of the others. I didn't see you complaining when a certain member tirelessly downvoted that UA!

Oh yeah, that is because it was you. You are the main reason it is eliminated. You have waged the voting war just as I. UA's have fallen by the waysides because of your relentless voting as well, hyprocrit. Me - 8 votes against PH (including this one). You - 10 against Ingenuity. Yes, I wasted tons of time counting through the entire thread.

One of your consistent reasons for PH being so valuable is there are religions that can mix well with it. For the same reason I downvoted PoC so heavily, is why I think that is a lackluster argument for Carthage's UA to be ranked high.

Angry rant over. Phoenician Heritage eliminated.