Unit Promotions

[Graadiapolistan]

This probably doesn't deserve its own thread, but I don't like unit promotions, I'd like to see what other poeple think this will effect general gameplay and the amount of startegy involved and how "chess likeness" the game will lose

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I like promotions, from what I know right now, because it reduces the 'Stack Of Doom' tactic so common-and successful-in civ3, and actually allows players to win with both a smaller AND more mixed stack of units. Also, comparing Civ to Chess is like comparing Apples to Oranges. If I wanted a 'chess-like' game, guess what? I would PLAY CHESS !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker

 

[panzer_kevlar]

From what I understand about the system, it isn't much like the current "promotion" system of conscript->regular->veteren->elite. Instead, its more like a specialization system. I think it will be great--I can already see elite urban infantry, alpine infantry, desert, etc. that will give it a more real world feel. Real armies have specialized units for mountain, urban, and other kinds of combat, so why shouldn't civ?

 

[SniperDevil]

i think the unit promotions will be really cool.. i hope they make ways to easily recognize which unit has which trait one promoted in that area

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Actually, the promotions are a combo of the original 'Rankings' system (i.e. conscript, green, regular, veteran and elite-by the looks) and the various special abilities. So you can choose to either make a unit simply 'stronger' (i.e. more hitpoints) or simply make it especially good at a particular form of combat. If they get REALLY good, though, then they could even be BOTH!!!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Ivan the Kulak]

The problem I see with this is that people will end up giving up strategy in order to "protect" their leveled up units. Reading in some of the other posts, it seems to me that their are far too many bonuses that you can apply to a unit, this is going to cause confusion in the heat of battle and add to micromanagement. Hit points are still low as well, apparently, what is up with that? I can hear people screaming now, when a unit they have promoted with new abilities a dozen times loses to an inferior unit that wins without losing a single hit point - shades of civ 3.

I wish they had stuck with more hit points, and perhaps a half dozen "special" attrubutes you could apply to a unit ONLY when it wins a battle against a superior foe, say using enemy roads, extra move point, 1 extra tile vision, ignore move cost on hills, ignore move cost on jungle/forest, and retreat if losing against units with equal move points.

Well, we'll see how it all works out.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Although I cannot say for certain, I am guessing that not ALL promotions will be available to all units-and that in fact some might prove 'mutually exclusive'. In addition, I would not be suprised if the promotions you can take for a unit were dependant on the kinds of combats they had been fighting. Which brings us to another important point-how do you get MORE 'levelled' up-if you are being overly protective of the unit? Didn't they say that promotions are more likely if you win 'against large odds'? Hardly gonna work for those who coddle their units !
On a final note, though 1 unit=1hp in this new system, it appears that each unit has a certain amount of damage it can take BEFORE it dies. This seems to indicate that 'hp'-as we understand it-will be higher than in Civ3 (perhaps more like civ2 hp). Also, the amount of 'damage' (not hp) a multi-unit does seems to be, in part, dependant on its strength compared to that of its opponent. I think this indicates that combat WILL be a lot smoother-even before we know whether stack or single unit combat is in the game.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

'The problem I see with this is that people will end up giving up strategy in order to "protect" their leveled up units.'

And they will lose doing that. That is a common mistake in stategy games. You have those tough units for a reason. Use them! Now of course you should use them appropriately where their advantages actually help and winning actually means something. But that's no different than Civ3--just now you have a lot more choices. I think it will actually cut down on micromanagement. It will introduce far more strategic and tactical decision making, however. Those aren't the same thing.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Yes, I remember that I USED to protect my promoted units in People's General (from the Panzer General game range) and-as Crazy Jerome pointed out-I frequently lost, often because I did not have the strength or manpower to complete my missions. Once I started using those units without fear, I found myself WINNING. Also CJ is right to point out the difference between Micromanagement (tedious stuff like checking your cities every turn to avoid unrest, or moving workers to RR every square or pounce on pollution as it popped up) and Strategic/Tactical planning.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[civzombie]

I am skeptical about unit promotions b/c I think the AI might suck at using them, e.g. bombardment in civ3.

 

[MrMahk]

good point zombie, and also i think that this game is really heading towards an rpg

 

[mastertyguy]

Everything you had new in the game will affect balance, you can't refuse a feature only because the AI won't use it well enough. Maybe the Ai will you use well with the better AI. We don't know.

 

[letis]

hello,

I just hope I won't spent hours to wonder how to promote a units versus a given enemy unit, just to realize this b***ard just give its units THE one ability which will kick me whatever I choose.

Anyway, as the old lady tells at civanon.org : il will split the atom and will sort this mess out. Since Civ I , one of the things I've been expecting the most at each Civilization release is "ok, how does the nuke looks like ? hmm pretty nice, will have to spare a few of them just in case "

regards,

 

[JavalTigar]

Letis: I've been wondering that too!

I hope its like SMAC. Where it vaporizes a space to the point the land is useless. (just like real life, making the AI a little more reluctant to use them)

 

[civzombie]

"Maybe the Ai will you use well with the better AI. We don't know."

Indeed, maybe. This is why I am "skeptical of" rather than "against" unit promotions. If the AI can handle em well, I am all for them. I am just concerned that 40 different types of unit promotions and how to use each of them will be too complicated to build an effective AI around.

I hope Soren suprizes me...

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Looking at the promotions list though, Civzombie, it looks very much like not ALL promotions will be available to ALL units-and some look like they will only be available under certain victory conditions. Also, some of the promotions are higher levels of existing ones (like Barrage I and Barrage II, for instance). My point is that by limiting the amount of total choices PER promotion, you do increase the chance of the AI using it successfully.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[mastertyguy]

I'm quite sure your archer wont become good at fighting spears while winning over cavalry units.

 

[bkwrm79]

Letis: I've been wondering that too!

I hope its like SMAC. Where it vaporizes a space to the point the land is useless. (just like real life, making the AI a little more reluctant to use them)

Maybe nukes would work like in Civ III, but if they win a battle become like SMAC... oh wait. Never mind.

They did rule in SMAC tho... I lost a game when my capital with all its Secret Projects was wiped out by Yang's Planetbuster. I was winning up until that point. Subsequent games I try to spread out my Secret Projects, and develop defenses as early as possible.

 

[Ranbir]

I hope there are enough promotions available to not become stale. Since they are cutting down on then number of units. (I still miss the howitzer)

Hopefully I can mod like, 20 extra abilities.

 

[Jaybe]

In stock Civ 3 Conquests there are 85 units (from my count, including UUs). For cIV it is supposed to be 83 -- big whoppin' deal!