Unit strengths/cost: realistic

at least considering russia and germany you should be right, germany had the Panzer III, Panzer IV and later the heavy Panther and Tiger (and Königstiger),

Russia had already at the start of the war with germany 1941 light (BT), medium (T-34) and heavy tanks (KV-1)
 
I totally agree with boozer about the evolution of tanks. :strength: isn't all that matters for making a tank useful, especially the way I play. I often do better with lighter, faster tanks. And that's the point, there's niches for different types of tanks at the same time; in some cases, a light fast tank will do better than a strong slow tank! Esp when there's aircraft involved, aircraft with long range, and you want someone to race in and seize the land you've softened up. That's why tanks aren't designated as "obsolete tanks" and "current tanks" but rather as "light" "medium" and "heavy" tanks, none of them obsolete until a new tank of the same class is developed, a new tank that has all the strengths of its predecessor with no new weaknesses. Heavy tanks do have all the oomph of light tanks and more, but they have weaknesses the light tanks don't have, like slowness. So yeah, I love variety of troops in wargames, so I can craft my army according to my strategy. If you're willing to put in the work, boozer and Dale, then I think a lot of us will like it :)
 
Aircraft range is calculated with every 100 km of range in real life equals 1 tile in-game, rounded down.
 
The Panzer 4 Ausf sounds good. It reflects the upgrade of the Panzer 4 from being an infantry support tank to being an armor fighting tank. I don't know if I mentioned, It was produced until the very end of the war and it was the cheapest tank for the germans. I would keep the cost at 500 and maybe 525 for the Ausf version.

The Panther might have to be separate class. The Panzer 4, Panther and Tiger tank should be able to be built simultaneously. So you should have the option to build any of those three.
 
Ausf. is an acronym for "version" in German. You mean the Ausf. D (version D)

And your exactly right about it. I'm considering making Germany's second (permanent) light tank the Panther, although the Panther wasnt really a light tank, there's not really another way to implement it without adding a completely new unit type for the germans.
 
to have an second idea for the discussion:

Spoiler :
General: Strength/Movement/Cost/Bonus/Starting Promotions

Infantry:

Early Infantry (EI): 8/1/400/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
German EI: 15/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Combat I+II
Italien EI: 12/1/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Soviet EI: 15/1/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War
British EI: 13/1/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
French EI: 11/1/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
US EI: 12/1/200/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Chinese EI: 9/1/140/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Japanese EI: 12/1/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons, +25% JungleBonus
Finnish EI: 12/1/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War, AntiTank

Improved Infantry (II): 13/1/400/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
German II: 20/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Combat I+II
Italien II: 17/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Soviet II: 20/2/240/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War
British II: 18/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
French II: 16/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
US II: 18/2/140/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Chinese II: 13/2/140/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Japanese II: 17/2/280/+25% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons, +25% JungleBonus
Finnish II: 15/2/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War, AntiTank

Advanced Infantry (AI): 18/2/400/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
German AI: 25/3/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Combat I, AntiTank
Italien AI: 22/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Soviet AI: 25/2/200/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War
British AI: 23/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
French AI: 22/2/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
US AI: 23/2/140/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons/Amphibious, AntiTank
Chinese AI: 18/2/140/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons
Japanese AI: 20/2/280/+25% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons, +25% JungleBonus
Finnish AI: 20/2/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War, AntiTank

Modern Infantry (MI): 28/3/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /AntiTank
US MI: 28/3/280/+10% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /AntiTank, Amphibious
Soviet MI: 28/3/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War, AntiTank
German MI: 28/3/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /AntiTank
Finnish MI: 28/3/280/+50% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /Winter War, AntiTank
Japanese MI: 28/2/280/+25% City Defense, +50% vs. Siege Weapons /AntiTank

Early Marine: 15/2/400/Amphibious, +10% vs Infantry, -25% vs Tanks
Late Marine: 25/2/450/Amphibious, +10% vs Infantry
Early Paratrooper: 15/2/400/Paradrops, +10% vs Infantry, -25% vs Tanks
Late Paratrooper: 25/2/450/Paratrops, +10% vs Infantry




Tanks:
Edit: added ~year of appearance in brackets
(Light Tanks: Early Tank(start) -> Light Tank(39/40) -> Modified Light Tank(42/43) -> Modern Light Tank(45/46)
Medium Tanks(38-40) –> Modified Medium Tank(43/44) -> Modern Light Tank(45/46)
Early Heavy Tank(40/41 - france earlier) -> Heavy Tanks(43/44) -> Modern Tank(46)
Heavy Tanks II (Count as Heavy, only Germany: Tiger)(43) – Modern Tanks(46)

Early Tank (ET): 15/2/920/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
German ET: 15/2/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II
(Panzer II)
Italien ET: 14/2/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(L3/35 Tankette)
Soviet ET: 15/2/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(T 26)
British ET: 13/2/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Matilda MK I [A11])
French ET: 15/1/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Renault R-35)
US ET: 15/2/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(M2A1)
Japanese ET: 15/2/820/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Double Jungle Movement
(Type 95 Ha Go)
Czech ET: 15/2/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Skoda LT vz.35)

Light Tank (LT): 15/3/920/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg

German LT: 20/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II, AntiTank
(Panzer III)
Italien LT: 17/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(L6/40)
Soviet LT: 18/3/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(T 40)
British LT: 22/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Matilda MK. II [A12])
French LT: 18/2/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Hotchkiss H 39)
US LT: 18/3/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(M3)
Japanese LT: 17/2/820/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Double Jungle Movement
(Type 97 Te Ke)
Czech LT: 20/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Skoda LT vz.38)

Late Light Tank (LLT): 20/3/920/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg

German LLT: 25/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II, AntiTank
(Panzer III Ausf J)
Italien LLT: 23/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Carro Armato Celere Sahariano)
Soviet LLT: 26/3/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(T 70)
British LLT: 25/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(Harry Hopkins MK VIII [A25])
French LLT: 23/3/720/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
( Renault R-40)
US LLT: 23/3/600/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
(M5)
Japanese LLT: 21/2/820/+10% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg, Double Jungle Movement
(Type 98 Ke Ni)

Medium Tank (MT): 20/2/1120/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg

German MT: 25/3/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II, AntiTank
(Panzer IV)
Italien MT: 23/2/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Carro Armato M11/39)
Soviet MT: 27/2/720/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(T-34/76)
British MT: 25/2/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Crusader MK III)
French MT: 23/1/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Somua S35)
US MT: 25/2/720/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(M4 Sherman)
Japanese MT: 20/2/1120/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Type 97 Chi Ha)

Late Medium Tank (LMT): 23/3/1120/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg

German LMT: 30/3/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II, AntiTank
(Panzer IV Ausf H)
Italien MT: 27/3/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(M15/42)
Soviet MT: 32/3/700/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(T-34/85)
British MT: 30/3/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(A27M Cromwell)
French MT: 27/3/920/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(??? modified Somua S35 or Bataille B1 - no idea what could fit better)
US MT: 27/3/700/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(M4A3 Sherman)
Japanese MT: 24/3/1120/+20% vs Light Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Type 3 Chi Nu)

Early Heavy Tanks (EHT)

Soviet EHT: 25/2/1000/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(KV-1)
French EHT: 25/1/1400/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Bataille B1 or Char 2C)
British EHT: 25/2/1400/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Churchill MK. III)
No nation else

Heavy Tanks (HT): 25/2/1500/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg

German HT: 30/2/1120/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II
(Panther)
Italien HT: 27/2/1300/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(P26/40)
Soviet HT: 30/2/1000/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(IS-2)
British HT: 29/2/1400/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(A20 Churchill MK VII)
French HT: 27/2/1400/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(??? modified Bataille B1- no idea what could fit better)
US HT: 29/2/1300/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(M26 Pershing)
Japanese HT: 26/2/1500/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg
(Type 5 Chi Ri)

Heavy Tanks II

Germany: 32/2/1500/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg, Combat I+II, AntiTank
(Tiger), cost more and should require a special factory (perhaps national wonder), so that the main heavy tank is still the panther

Modern Light Tank: 30/4/920/+20% vs Infantry/Blitzkrieg
Modern Tank: 40/3/1200/+40% vs Light Tanks, +20% vs Medium Tanks/Blitzkrieg

AntiTankGun: 10/1/600/+50 vs tanks, +25% town defence, +10% wood and hill defence/
Early TankDestroyer: 15/3/650/+50 vs tanks, +25% town defence, +10% wood and hill defence/
Late TankDestroyer: 20/2/900/+50 vs tanks, +25% town defence, +10% wood and hill defence/

AntiAirGuns: the same as now

Artillery: the same as now, only reduce speed of Heavy Artillery to two
 
Well I like the idea of separate light medium and heavy types over eras.

Eg

UK

Early Light and Medium Tanks available from start

Early Heavy Tanks available after researching Heavy Tanks (tech 12 currently Light Tanks)

Early Light Tank - Mark IVB strength 13 moves 3 hammers 720 -50% against other tanks, +25% against infantry and artillery

Early Medium Tank - A9 Cruiser Mark I strength 18 moves 2 hammers 850 +25% against infantry and artillery

Early Heavy Tank - A12 Infantry Mark II Matilda II strength 25 moves 2 hammers 1000 +25% against infantry and artillery

Improved Medium and Heavy tanks (no light because lets face the were largely a waste of resources) available after researching sloped armour tech (tech 22)

Improved Medium Tank - A15 Cruiser Mark IV Crusader strength 24 moves 3 hammers 920 +25% against infantry and artillery

Improved Heavy Tank - A22 Infantry Tank Mark IV Churchill strength 29 moves 2 hammers 1100 +25% against infantry and artillery

Advanced Tanks available after researching Advanced Tanks (currently Heavy Tanks - tech 32)

Advanced Light Tank - M3/5 Stuart strength 18 moves 4 hammers 850 +25% against infantry and artillery

Advanced Medium Tank - A-34 Cruiser Tank Comet strength 30 moves 3 hammers 970 +25% against infantry and artillery

Advanced Heavy Tank - A-43 Infantry Tank Black Prince strength 37 moves 2 hammers 1200 +25% against infantry and artillery

Modern Tanks as per current

Modern Tank - A41 Centurion Medium Tank strength 40 moves 3 hammers 1200

Additional Types

Airborne Tank

A17 Light Tank Mark VII Tetrach starts with paradrop

Light and Medium Amphibious Tanks

Including Valentine or Sherman DD starts with amphibious

Heavy Tank Destroyers

A39 Heavy Assault Tank Tortoise. strength 20 moves 3 hammers 1000 +50% v armour




Now this does work but I think it might slow things down a bit with all the extra classes. and the actual numbers are from my last round of updating before AOP3. I've got lists for the other major nations as well but I think this will do for now. I doubt Dale will be wanting to add this many new classes :)

Dan
 
It might be possible to apply a default, non-upgradable infantry promotion related to the country's war-readiness, production level, and quality of leadership. This way you can keep most infantry Strength stats generally consistent but allow for variations between countries. Note, I am only talking about the Strength stat here and am paying no attention to cost, movement, other promotions, etc. I understand this is borderline to Dale's approach of minimizing promotions to avoid grognardiness, but if you keep it simple and tie it to things like barracks and production levels I don't think it'd be difficult for people to pick up.

I'm thinking of four basic levels:
Spoiler :
Disorganized (L1): -50% strength
Poorly Organized (L2): -25% strength
Organized (L3): no benefit or drawback
Well Organized (L4): +25% strength
With a few exceptions you could even restrict the promotion levels to troop types, so early infantry could only have L1 to L3, and Improved or later infantry could only have L2 to L4 because "improved" indicates a fundamental alteration in quality. You could of course restrict this by country as needed.

There are a lot of things you could do with this. You could tie it to civics (fascist industry or industry L3 and higher gains a +1 organization level), traits (Industrious or Organized provides a +1), or buildings (barracks provide a +1). You might be able to move the barracks to an early tech that some countries don't initially have, so you're limited to the initial quality of your troops until the research comes in.

You could even tie this to events. For example, when you hit Stalin's purge of the military of 1937, you could do something like reduce all newly built infantry by -1 for a certain period of time.

Here's a quick look at some numbers:
Spoiler :
Assume that Early Infantry has a 12 Strength. This means that you get the following variation:

Disorganized (L1): 6
Poorly Organized (L2): 9
Organized (L3): 12
Well Organized (L4): 15

If Improved Infantry has a 16 Strength, you get the following:

Disorganized (L1): 8
Poorly Organized (L2): 12
Organized (L3): 16
Well Organized (L4): 20

If Advanced Infantry has a 20 Strength, you get the following:

Disorganized (L1): 10
Poorly Organized (L2): 15
Organized (L3): 20
Well Organized (L4): 25

And so on and so forth. I kept to round numbers here but that's not entirely necessary.
"Counteracting" the default organization type would come with experience. I am not familiar enough with promotions in Civ4 modding to know if you could simply upgrade them upon reaching a certain level (ie, if unit lvl 3 is reached and unit has L1 or L2 organizational promotion, replace original with L2 or L3 respectively; if unit lvl 5 is reached and unit has L2 organizational promotion, replace original with L3).

You can generally assume that the "unnamed" countries will start off with Poorly Organized (L2), and then apply basic categorical variations to the countries themselves to start them off with the numbers you want.

For example, in 1936 Germany could start at Organized (L3), and cities with barracks could produce Well Organized (L4) troops. The U.S. might start as Disorganized (L1) or Poorly Organized (L2) to represent the abysmal state of its army during that time period. Both Chinese factions could start as Disorganized (L1) or Poorly Organized (L2) to represent the devastating effects of its civil war which left if vulnerable to external forces. Etc, etc.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Obviously this needs balancing and testing, but it's something the player can feel in control of through tech chasing and smart play rather than feeling stuck with "crappy units" through the course of the game.
 
One thing I'd really like to see if you end up making some of the changes folks have suggested here is for tech 12 - Light Tanks to be renamed, perhaps to medium tanks. For every nation, researching Light Tanks actually allows them to build medium tanks.

Dan
 
It might be possible to apply a default, non-upgradable infantry promotion related to the country's war-readiness, production level, and quality of leadership. This way you can keep most infantry Strength stats generally consistent but allow for variations between countries. Note, I am only talking about the Strength stat here and am paying no attention to cost, movement, other promotions, etc. I understand this is borderline to Dale's approach of minimizing promotions to avoid grognardiness, but if you keep it simple and tie it to things like barracks and production levels I don't think it'd be difficult for people to pick up.

I'm thinking of four basic levels:
Spoiler :
Disorganized (L1): -50% strength
Poorly Organized (L2): -25% strength
Organized (L3): no benefit or drawback
Well Organized (L4): +25% strength
With a few exceptions you could even restrict the promotion levels to troop types, so early infantry could only have L1 to L3, and Improved or later infantry could only have L2 to L4 because "improved" indicates a fundamental alteration in quality. You could of course restrict this by country as needed.

There are a lot of things you could do with this. You could tie it to civics (fascist industry or industry L3 and higher gains a +1 organization level), traits (Industrious or Organized provides a +1), or buildings (barracks provide a +1). You might be able to move the barracks to an early tech that some countries don't initially have, so you're limited to the initial quality of your troops until the research comes in.

You could even tie this to events. For example, when you hit Stalin's purge of the military of 1937, you could do something like reduce all newly built infantry by -1 for a certain period of time.

Here's a quick look at some numbers:
Spoiler :
Assume that Early Infantry has a 12 Strength. This means that you get the following variation:

Disorganized (L1): 6
Poorly Organized (L2): 9
Organized (L3): 12
Well Organized (L4): 15

If Improved Infantry has a 16 Strength, you get the following:

Disorganized (L1): 8
Poorly Organized (L2): 12
Organized (L3): 16
Well Organized (L4): 20

If Advanced Infantry has a 20 Strength, you get the following:

Disorganized (L1): 10
Poorly Organized (L2): 15
Organized (L3): 20
Well Organized (L4): 25

And so on and so forth. I kept to round numbers here but that's not entirely necessary.
"Counteracting" the default organization type would come with experience. I am not familiar enough with promotions in Civ4 modding to know if you could simply upgrade them upon reaching a certain level (ie, if unit lvl 3 is reached and unit has L1 or L2 organizational promotion, replace original with L2 or L3 respectively; if unit lvl 5 is reached and unit has L2 organizational promotion, replace original with L3).

You can generally assume that the "unnamed" countries will start off with Poorly Organized (L2), and then apply basic categorical variations to the countries themselves to start them off with the numbers you want.

For example, in 1936 Germany could start at Organized (L3), and cities with barracks could produce Well Organized (L4) troops. The U.S. might start as Disorganized (L1) or Poorly Organized (L2) to represent the abysmal state of its army during that time period. Both Chinese factions could start as Disorganized (L1) or Poorly Organized (L2) to represent the devastating effects of its civil war which left if vulnerable to external forces. Etc, etc.

Anyway, that's where I'm at. Obviously this needs balancing and testing, but it's something the player can feel in control of through tech chasing and smart play rather than feeling stuck with "crappy units" through the course of the game.

That's one of the best ideas I've heard so far, but I don't like how much it affects each unit. maybe L1 = -10% and L4 = +10%, so its something important to consider, but it doesnt decide a battle.

P.S. I've been gone for the whole weekend, so I havent recieved a chance to update my giant unit list in this thread. I will begin again later today or Monday.
 
The actual percentages certainly need serious balancing, mostly I was going with numbers that would allow Dale to keep the Strength ratings he has now while still keeping the infantry at roughly the same actual core Strength rating across the board. Even if it's -20/-10/Nothing/+10, that can prove either a slight edge or a significant disadvantage against organized troops. The Disorganized should definitely be disadvantageous, particularly if there is something in the game that allows the player to counteract it (ie, "build a barracks"). That also helps focus where and what a player is building in each city, so they all don't become clones of one another which is generally what occurs in the various test games I've played.
 
The actual percentages certainly need serious balancing, mostly I was going with numbers that would allow Dale to keep the Strength ratings he has now while still keeping the infantry at roughly the same actual core Strength rating across the board. Even if it's -20/-10/Nothing/+10, that can prove either a slight edge or a significant disadvantage against organized troops. The Disorganized should definitely be disadvantageous, particularly if there is something in the game that allows the player to counteract it (ie, "build a barracks"). That also helps focus where and what a player is building in each city, so they all don't become clones of one another which is generally what occurs in the various test games I've played.

Barracks build time needs to be quadrupled in that case. Too fast ATM for that setup.
 
Or there needs to be another building or something, yeah.

I'm waiting to see how the Production building factors into things. I have an idea but I want to see where Dale is headed with it.
 
Great suggestions cham one thing though for japanese infantry give them 3 movement. As they were usually light and fast on the attack either that or +50 percent in jungles. Anyways here are my paratroopers and marine suggestions
Paratrooper str 15, movement 3 cost 800(they would already need to be trained infantry) 25% att v siege and gunpowder (so they can beat basic and maybe improved infantry but other then that only really effective attacking)
Marine str 20, movement 2, cost 850, starts with amphibious. You could possibly move back the tech required to include polymerization if they would be too good early.

I'm still trying to think of a good way to balance paratroopers/marines so they fit well with ALL countries. Making them great units would urge non-unique countries to create armies of them, while leaving their standard infantry unbuilt. It would be a good thing for china, though, because they could sacrifice speedy build time for a better unit.

800 is WAY too much to build one, though. haha.
 
NOTES:

Artillery: collatoral damage limit 70%
Anti-air: I think you meant +50% versus air, not gunpowder units. ;)
 
NOTES:

Artillery: collatoral damage limit 70%
Anti-air: I think you meant +50% versus air, not gunpowder units. ;)

If its collateral damage limit is 70, then why is it capable of destroying large stacks using opportunity fire?

As for the AA units, read it again. its a Negative 50% vs. Gunpowder units.


I'm considering making the second light tank a Unique unit among Unique units. Each one already has special abilities unlike other civ's 2nd Light Tanks, and it would give me a way to include the Panther in my list? Anyone agree? It's not replaced by the 3rd light tank the way it is right now, though.

And Dale, I know you said till monday, but we need more time IMO.

What do you think about the BMP-1 as the Russian 2nd light tank? 2 :move:, starts with amphibious, immune to damage from Nukes?

I know it was invented in '61, but could still be interesting to use after nukes are invented.
 
I'll tone down Opp Fire. It's calculations don't consider the combat limits of CD.

AA neg vs gunpowder units? Why not halve it's strength and have +50% vs air? Makes more sense. Seems crazy having a negative for attacking someone. Or, give gunpowder units +50% vs anti-air. (I'm not sure the ramifications or if it'll work if I put -50 in that XML value).

Sounds like you're complicating light tanks too much. I want to keep it simplistic. As it was the way I had it, it was simple rock-paper-scissors.

I'm working to a very tight time schedule. So I need to push you along. :)

A tank from the 60's? No way. I won't support a unit outside of the timeline of the mod. Plus, you were pushing for realistic. A tank from '61 isn't too realistic in the '40's now is it? ;)
 
To be honest, I would prefer if all this super-realistic work is a mod-mod (like Blitzkrieg).

I want to keep the base RtW simple to understand for the largest amount of players. I know I can't cater for grognards in doing this, but I retain the ability to appeal to the largest base of fans possible.

That is what has made RtW so successful to this point. It's simplistic yet historical play, which allows players who have never taken up uber-realistic world war II games such as Heart of Iron, to experience the thrill of the era.

If by providing this, these new players experience WW2 and want more, then that is where mod-mods should take over.

Any objections to this?
 
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