1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

Unofficial BTS 3.13 patch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Bhruic, Oct 5, 2007.

  1. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2005
    Messages:
    22,876
    Location:
    Melbourne, AUS Reputation:131^(9/2)
    Do missionarys cost money to keep? If they don't, why not just have the AI not use them while in Theocracy and they don't have the Holy City?
     
  2. Bhruic

    Bhruic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,457
    There's no problem at all - as long as the AI isn't running Theocracy. If the AI is running Theocracy, that's a good indication it doesn't want non-state religions being spread. Accepting "gifted" Missionaries therefore becomes a way to "exploit" the AI's stupidity.

    Bh
     
  3. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,292
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    Yes, they have a maintenance cost.
     
  4. kniteowl

    kniteowl Pirate Captain :P

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,269
    Location:
    NZ
    Me personally? I'd be really mean and let the AI accept the Missionary then Let them delete the missionaries if they don't need them but then players would get annoyed wasting missionaries that never got the chance to spread.

    but the only case I know of where gifting a missionary would be unwise for the AI would be in the case where it led to the Player Win through the AP Diplomatic Victory.
     
  5. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,292
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    It's also disadvantageous to spread a second religion if you don't control the holy city. Multiple religions are usually only useful when you want to go for a cultural victory. Making the owner of the holy city earn more money is not a good thing.

    Letting the AI accept the missionaries and then disband them when they can't use them would also work for me. A human player should notice that the religion is not being spread. It's probably easier to (program to) just let the AI not accept the missionaries when they're in Theocracy. Although this is based on the idea that an AI using theocracy is unwilling to spread a second religion and that might not be true. AI's usually seem to choose this civic purely for its military use and not for the religion blocking effects.

    But if the AI accepts the missionaries when it is going for a cultural victory, then I think it behaves fine. It's an AI. You can't expect very detailed decision making. ;)
     
  6. kniteowl

    kniteowl Pirate Captain :P

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,269
    Location:
    NZ
    well it's a choice, which is more beneficial getting the extra happy from temple for larger cities or denying the extra gold to shrine by not spread the religion with the missionary.
     
  7. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,634
    Location:
    Cheering For Mr Sanchez
    On a similar theme, does the ai still sometimes adopt Theology when it has no state religion, or was that fixed a while back, and I just didn't notice?

    Ok there are just about plausible reasons for a player to do this, but an ai isn't clever enough, and it used to do this sometimes with no religion at all, thus wasting money, and well its just silly.....


    Advisor: Now we have discovered Theology sire, I suggest we adopt a Theocracy.
    King: But we have no religion whatsoever in our lands, what possible benefit would it give?
    A: Well sire, it, erm, well.....all our troops in cities with our state religion would become more fervent to the religious cause, and receive better training!
    K: What cause?
    A:Ah, erm, right....well it would stop heathen religions spreading to our people!
    K: Heathen religions?
    A: Yes sire, and we should smite them with all our religious fury!
    K: And aren't by definition, the heathens defined as people without religion?
    A: Yes for sure, sire!
    K: Which we have none...
    A: Ahhhhh, eeeerrrmmmm....
    K: So you basically want us to embark on a religious Crusade, against ourselves?
    A:..........(meep)
    K: Well it isn't without precident. It happened In a place called Europe in the 13th century (or did I dream that)....anyways, not in my Kingdom..
    A:.......{meeeeep}
    K: Time for the Guards I think..
     
  8. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,494
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    That depends, though. There may be times when it is to your advantage to join the religion of the Apostolic Palace even though you don't own the shrine, both for the AP production bonuses and for diplomatic bonuses if you want to curry favor with a civ whose running that religion. (Of course, I tend not to play pangaea, so the likelihood of a single religion being spread to all civs is low...)

    From a game mechanic perspective, I'm iffy on the idea of having the AI flat-out refuse a gift, although I don't see anything wrong with the AI disbanding an unwanted gifted missionary.
     
  9. Roland Johansen

    Roland Johansen Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,292
    Location:
    the Netherlands
    I know it isn't always a good thing to refuse to accept the missionary, that's why I said 'usually'.

    It might be a bit hard to write algorithms that recognise the select few situations where it is good to accept the religion. It's always hard to put human intuition into programming code.
     
  10. Dwayne Wade

    Dwayne Wade Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    33
    Ok I changed CvGameCoreDLL.dll in the Assets folder to CvGameCoreDLL313.dll to back it up and I copied the unofficial patch into the Assets folder. When I try to load up BTS it says there is an error. What am I doing wrong? (It never asks me if I want to overwrite the thing)
     
  11. chad187

    chad187 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    what page #?
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,998
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
    Now *cut* the CvGameCoreDLL313.dll and *paste it into a folder somewhere outside of the CIV game folder.


    You can't have 2 .dlls in the Assests folder.

    If you had 1st copy/pasted the original CvGameCoreDLL.dll into a folder outside of CIV game ( for example, I keep a special folder in My Documents called CIV Files). And then unzipped the Unofficial Patch (UOP for brevity) into it's Own folder, you could then copypaste the UOP into the Assests folder. When you click Paste in the Assests folder the pop up that asks for the overwrite would appear and you click OK.

    Understand now my friend? Patience grasshopper. You will learn the ways. :)

    JosEPh ;)
     
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2007
    Messages:
    11,998
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Western IL. cornfields
  14. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    2,247
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hamilton, Ontario
    Regarding the gift missionary debate, does anyone know if the A.I. will change to theocracy just to keep religions out? Back during a warlords game I started sending missionaries to another civ, but after the first one they changed to theocracy. So does anyone know if the A.I. was programed to do that, or was it just a coincidence and it was planning a troop build up. If it's the former then it's definitely an exploit to be able to gift missionaries to theocratic A.I. empires.
     
  15. Bhruic

    Bhruic Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,457
    From a game mechanic perspective, having Theocracy prevent me from spreading a religion to an AI city is pointless if I have the ability to gift a unit to that Civ and have them spread it themselves.

    As for having the AI accept and then disband the unit, what is the point of that? Why would the AI bother to accept in the first place if it doesn't actually want the unit? Preventing an exploit is a good thing, punishing a player for attempting one isn't.

    Bh
     
  16. PieceOfMind

    PieceOfMind Drill IV Defender Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Messages:
    9,312
    Location:
    Australia
    Bhruic, I'd like to make a suggestion for a fix, though I'm not sure whether this falls under the category of things you'd normally consider...

    When you are attacking a city you can select a unit and hover over the city with the right mouse button held down to see your odds and see the best defender in the stack. However, when you have a spy in the city the spy stays on top so you cannot see the best defender. This is a bit annoying when I want to choose promotions on the attacker so as to counter the best defender. It takes too much brain effort to mentally think of which unit it must be that's on the top. At the moment I just move my spy out of the city while I attack.

    Obviously the suggestion I'm making is to make the friendly spy not stay on top when you have a unit selected and hovering over something to attack. I haven't checked but the issue is probably exactly the same outside cities too.
     
  17. plesniak

    plesniak Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2006
    Messages:
    238
    I agree with this suggestion, I will ususally try and get my spy out of the city I am attacking before I start the attack...when I am unable to do this I find it quite frustrating when my spy is constantly on top of the city defenders.
     
  18. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,494
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    I don't dispute your first point, but my concerns in the earlier post were focused on the idea of explicitly barring the AI from carrying out an action that would otherwise be available in human-on-human play. When it comes down to adjusting the rules, I'm favor of barring an action across-the-board (i.e., restrict the ability of anyone to gift missionary units to anyone,) rather than imposing that restriction on just the AI players. (After all, how would a human player react to receiving an unsolicited and unwanted missionary for a foreign religion that he would now have to pay maintenance costs for?)

    On your second point, I would always rather improve the AI rather than adjust the rules to account for AI quirks. That said, it isn't clear to me that (a) this is a problem worth worrying about, or (b) that in a cost-benefit analysis, the marginal utility we'd get out of an improved AI would be worth whatever sweat that you (Bhruic) would have to put into to. So I'm inclined to think that if (a) is true, then the easiest solution is to eliminate gifting of missionaries for everyone. If (a) is not true, then that's that. (Naturally, all this is said from the perspective of one who surely isn't going to do any heavy-lifting on the coding....)

    At the end of the day, I just believe that it's better to keep the rules even for everyone (human and AI) unless forced up against the wall (as the designers apparently were by vassal states, for instance.)
     
  19. jkp1187

    jkp1187 Unindicted Co-Conspirator

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2004
    Messages:
    2,494
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Quite so. I missed the conditional. Apologies!
     
  20. chad187

    chad187 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    347
    Does this automatically install the patch. Im currently in the middle of a game using the earth 34 civ mod will this make it so my colonies wont get declared war on as soon as i create them?
     

Share This Page