Upgrading comp for Civ4

[Zelpo]

Howdy folks

Running (what is now) an older system on XP OS:

P5B-E mobo
E6300 proc
EVGA 8800 GTS 320MB vid
Corsair XMS2 2x1 GB DDR2 ram
Seasonic 600w ps, Seagate 320GB HDD (7200rpm), Antec900 case (fans on medium)

Would like to upgrade while I can on current motherboard.
Note: I don't OC, but also not opposed to it. I'm just lazy and use the plug & pray method, hook stuff up and hope it works. Not much of a bios dabber, again not opposed (for example: bios updating)

I play Civ4 way more than I should, and this game is the limiter on my system. Can't play large maps as computer lags hard between turns. My goal is to play this game on any size map without issue/lag.

Okay, my thoughts and please pick this apart because I haven't kept up with the tech for the past year so I really don't know:

Proc
Probably my biggest limiter. Keeping the FSB the same speed as the Asus (1066), my options (for dual core, which I think Civ4 doens't even take advantage of but I do have multiple web pages, word docs etc up at any one time): E7400, or more speed: what's the advantage/disadvantage to running something like a E8600 which is faster but has a different FSB speed at 1333 ?

RAM
Dang that Corsair I use is on the cheap right now. Even though XP can't take advantage of a full 4GB, should I stick a couple more of these in just to get >3GB ?

Video card
I'm lost on this one. My head swims just trying to figure it out. I'm thinking ~$400 is my price range on this item. Suggestions?

Thanks for your time!

Matt

 

[Genocidicbunny]

If you really want to, you can buy a new proc, but probably the best option for the next year is to find a very good cpu cooler and OC the hell out of that proc.
Also, the E8500 is better than the E8600. The price premium for the increase of .17gHz isnt worth it. And both are just as overclockable, but as a recent Toms hardware article showed, you need some beefy cooling to get it over 4.25gHz

if the RAM is cheap, get it. It'll affect your civ playability the most, especially on large maps.

Your video card is plenty powerful. Its not worth blowing another 300 to get a new one. Wait a few months to a year, and then upgrade it.

 

[GVBN]

P5B-E does support 1333mhz, download the latest BIOS update here

 

[Jazzmail]

I don't believe civ4 can actually use more then 2GB. Civ4 doesn't benefit from dual core or quad core either.

There's basicly nothing you can do to make in better except, maybe get higher clock speeds.

 

[Zelpo]

If that's the case, I just can't understand WTH I'm doing wrong with this computer ?? I read plenty of threads about people running huge maps, dozens of civs, etc. About the best I can do is a standard map late game, 6-8 civs ... unless I feel like 2 minute lags between turns.

My focus is the processor. From what I'm reading, I can adjust the FSB speed with the Asus mobo utility program, enabling the option of the E8xxx Wolfdales.

Anyone here running a barney-badass computer, huge maps lots of civs w/o lag issues between turns?

Another option is get a VelociRaptor and run Civ4 straight off of that?

 

[Comraddict]

I agree with everything already said. Lagging between turns means CPU is doing lots of work and can't finish quickly.

yes, CIV IV benefits from high clock speed, it can be dual core or quad core, doesn't matter as long as you have sufficient clock speed, say 2.4GHz in Core 2 duo terms.
Graphics? one that you already have is going to run CIV IV good as any new and expensive. I've got 8800GTS 640 and runs great on 1920x1200, not any different than my new Radeon 4870.

 

[Macha]

That system should be more than enough. Until recently I played civ on a computer with a Pentium 4 and a geforce 5200 on highest maps with 18 civs without lag. Are you running something else at the same time of Civ? (e.g.AV scans, Music)

 

[Genocidicbunny]

A format and reinstall of Windows may help a lot. At least it did for me.

 

[Zelpo]

I'm actually thinking about a reinstall of the OS. It took all night to defrag a 320GB drive (80 free), that doesn't seem typical ime.

Another option is to OC the E6300 and see where that get's me.

I do run other apps when playing, usually Firefox with a few pages up, including Pandora.com. With a dual core CPU, I didn't think that'd make too much of a difference. So I started playing Civ4 without anything else running, still lags.

 

[GenMarshall]

So I started playing Civ4 without anything else running, still lags.

That's what I am afraid of with a dual core processor

 

[GoodGame]

You might try increasing the paging file size, and even adding a second hard drive to run that. Going through Windows Task Manger and deleting un-needed, large processes might help some also. Defraging the drive would help as well; If it took a very long time, then you might have your hard drive too full---try to leave it about 30% empty. Taking it off the internet and pausing your anti-virus scans would help too.

 

[illram]

If that's the case, I just can't understand WTH I'm doing wrong with this computer ?? I read plenty of threads about people running huge maps, dozens of civs, etc. About the best I can do is a standard map late game, 6-8 civs ... unless I feel like 2 minute lags between turns.

My focus is the processor. From what I'm reading, I can adjust the FSB speed with the Asus mobo utility program, enabling the option of the E8xxx Wolfdales.

Anyone here running a barney-badass computer, huge maps lots of civs w/o lag issues between turns?

Another option is get a VelociRaptor and run Civ4 straight off of that?

Like others said it doesn't look like hardware is the problem.

My system has the same mobo, 2GB ram and an ancient 7600GT with a C2D e6600 and I can run 24 civs on huge earth maps no problem, no lag, maybe 2 or 3 seconds between turns. Everything on high at 1024x768. Your system should be running same as mine if not better because of your gfx card. Our processors are not that different.

When you open task manager how many processes are running?

 

[Zelpo]

Too many! I've recently started to shutdown things like AVG, spyware prog, etc. when playing Civ4.

I think my plan of attack will be:

1. Reinstall XP
2. Update drivers
3. Real CPU cooler (stock right now), such as Zalman9500 or such
4. 2x2GB RAM, maintain dual channel this way even though I'll only get ~3GB
5. Attempt to OC the E6300 to at least 2.4

I'll benchmark before, after, and in between to confirm improvements. If I'm still not able to play a huge map late game, then I'll start throwing $$ at the problem.

Thanks for the replies & suggestions

 

[Jazzmail]

1. Reinstall XP
2. Update drivers
3. Real CPU cooler (stock right now), such as Zalman9500 or such
4. 2x2GB RAM, maintain dual channel this way even though I'll only get ~3GB
5. Attempt to OC the E6300 to at least 2.4

1. msconfig is usually all you need
2. always good to have recent drivers
3. only if 5 and you really know about overclocking
4. don't bother. it won't make any difference for CIV4 or any single app under winXP.
5. the low clockspeed of the E6300 is the main thing, but see 3.

 

[Zelpo]

Can you expand on the msconfig? I'm clueless.

Benifit to the E6300 being around a while: there is a wealth of info on the net on OC settings specific to the P5B-E Most of the work/testing has already been done, but I'm still in research-mode on OCing to ensure I don't fry anything & that I actually understand the cause-effect of changes I make.

 

[Jazzmail]

Do click
start -> run -> type "msconfig"

Let's you disable programs and services that run when you restart the comp. You can also undo the changes any time, by clicking the checkboxes next to the services again.

There are plenty sites to tell you what service you actually need, so you don't disable those. Just googling the names also tells.

In the last "startup" tab next to services, most people only need their anti-virus and firewall software enabled there.

 

[Macha]

@the above post
Also if your using IE and Messenger is listed, Leave Messenger. (Might show as msnmsgs or msnmsgr depending on version on your computer)
Disabling it can sometimes cause problems.

 

[illram]

There really is no need to OC your cpu for civ4. If you wanted to anyway go ahead but it looks like your problem is software related so your hard work may be in vain. Any hardware stuff you do will probably not help until you fix the slowdown that is occurring.

There are free startup analysis programs out there that can tell you what your startup programs are within msconfig. (I have about 40 tasks running at any given time for what it's worth.)

The following website is a searchable site that gives you an explanation for each program you see under your msconfig "startup" tab: (you may need to expand the "command" tab to see the full path, enter the last word you see at the end of the path, so for /system32/navsys.exe you would type in "navsys.exe."

http://www.sysinfo.org/startuplist.php

Very helpful site, also comes in handy for reading hijack this logs and finding malicious startup programs.

Get rid of all the unnecessary crap. Also try running CCleaner.

 

[Zelpo]

Thanks for the info.

I'm in the middle of a home remodel, and had to move the computer. Since it's in a different location I didn't have internet access and decided to do a reinstall of XP while my house is in shambles for a week or two. That oughtta clean it up a bit.

 

[Quintillus]

If it's lag between turns, it's either CPU or RAM. Leave Task Manager running while you play Civ and see what RAM peaks at (Commit Charge Peak on the Performance tab). If it's more than the amount of memory you have, it's running slow because you don't have enough memory, and this can really slow it down.

If the Commit Charge Peak stays below the amount of memory you have and the CPU is staying at 50% for a long time (100% on a single core), then the CPU's the bottleneck.

I really don't know which one it would be; I could play the Earth map that came with it (which I'm pretty sure is Huge) with 18 civs on XP with 1 GB RAM and a 2.66 Pentium 4 (1.45 Core equivalent, approx.) and only about 30 seconds between turns with high development. It certainly is possible that there's something else slowing it down, but Task Manager should help a lot in revealing causes.

If the video card were a problem, you'd be noticing it while it's your turn, too.