Hinin's Tweaks for VP

[gwennog]

France Rework by Hinin, compatible with VP 3.0

I greatly prefer this version to the current one in VP. That's why, while waiting for @Hinin 's return, I offer you this compatible version.

 

[igloo hong]

ludokino

 

[CromulentRomulan]

In case anyone else is like me eagerly awaiting the reworks Hinin made to Civs in this mod and is particularly interested in playing either Ottoman or Shoshone I'm attaching my efforts to modularise and make both of them work with 3.0
I'm not a modder just a cludge reverse engineer. Shoshone looked the easiest to start with. The Ottoman's was a rework I was very interested in playing so I also got it working (sort of, see end note).
I've just made changes to the SQL where fields no longer present were being updated, causing the SQL to escape and crash. I couldn't work out how to make the Ottoman bath 3rd/4th UC replacement grant -1 unhappiness for boredom and illiteracy. Which in my playthrough of them was fine, the building is pretty great as it stands with all the buffs it provides.
I really like what you did with the Ottomans - the UNW is enough to make an authority->statecraft path for Ottoman's as appealing as opening with progress, and that in turn opens up the industrial policy tree choices nicely too.
Gwenog thanks for fixing the France mod, playing that was what sent me chasing the Ottoman's experience. I like the rework of France compared to existing, but I think they are too strong. I don't really have a sense of how to balance all the food/production benefits that France is getting so I don't know if the power imbalance lies there. I can say with confidence that the additional UU, the cannon, is too powerful. Quick study with the France espirit d'corps attack bonus is too potent, you can get range cannons way earlier than anyone else. So France's conquest ability is boosted at the same time that the rest of their kit is made less swingy so I think its too much buffs.
Keep up the great work G&H - your individual Civs and your collaborative entries are always a joy to play and really explore the design space of the game

 

[gwennog]

Thank you for Hinin but also for me and for your work.
I completely agree on your analysis of France, playing against (putting it in AI) is a lesson of humility , Hinin will have to reduce that power. The Food/Production bonuses are too high in my opinion but the concept is still very interesting.
Source on, @Hinin himself , he should slowly return to civ. I hope.

 

[black213]

Thank you for Hinin but also for me and for your work.
I completely agree on your analysis of France, playing against (putting it in AI) is a lesson of humility , Hinin will have to reduce that power. The Food/Production bonuses are too high in my opinion but the concept is still very interesting.
Source on, @Hinin himself , he should slowly return to civ. I hope.

I recommend nerfing the UA from +2 to +1

 

[gwennog]

I recommend nerfing the UA from +2 to +1

I agree, and food +2 instead of +3.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

FAO anyone wanting to play the reworked trio of Byzantium, Arabia and Persia the Machrek rework civs work straight out of the box. If you follow the way that Gwenog modularised France you should be able to pluck them out for playing

 

[CromulentRomulan]

I've now had the chance to sample each of the Machrek rework Civs and wanted to relay my thoughts to @Hinin . Worth noting for anyone interested in trying them out that all of these work straight out of the box, no changes to their SQL files required.
I agree with the rationale behind the kit swap of Arabia and Byzantium, and both of those kits are among the most enjoyable in VP so playing them is a blast, especially so Arabia when playing with pineappledan's more beliefs mod. It's refreshing to play Arabia with the progress tree and with the aforementioned expanded beliefs there are some crazy combos with their unique buildings. You can go progress and still have very high pop cities. I played Arabia mostly defensive but I'd be interested in what their military could be like with the potential to upgrade quick study camels into Hashemite Raiders, which you could in theory do just with the resources provided by the Great Sooq over a number of turns. It could provide a formidable raiding force.
The strength (bordering on OP) of the Machrek reworks unique units is a theme tbh. Iran's Grivpanvar is the maybe the best unit in the game. If you manage to keep any of these units around to upgrade into landships (and with armor plating your odds are good) their starting promotions make them steamroll any opposing force. Especially so with the Tortobak Toptshi providing ranged support. The only drawback to that unit is their shorter window before they obsolete but having 3 range and ability to snipe from mountains is broken strong. I think a reconsideration of how strong these UUs are in tandem is merited. This iteration of Iran is one of the few civs (alongside Sweden and Songhai) where I feel like hero worship is worth risking as a founder belief because of how much steamroll potential you have and how rewarded you are from Golden Ages.
Byzantium does indeed meet its stated design goals of a defensive scaling Civ. I played them tradition into culture victory with a WLTKD centric religion to combo with their 3rd/4th unique Circus Maximus. Varangian Guard are really good, too good IMO. They seem to have inherited the free company ability to pillage without movement cost, given that pillaging is a dimension of the game that the human player outclasses the AI in I think that gives them far too much offensive ability when added to their other unique promotions so I'd consider removing it. Also its unclear if its intended that they should have this ability. On the topic of unintended interactions was it intended that the Aplekton can be built on resources without improving them? I know that some UIs suffer from the morocco kasbah bug where they can be built atop things they weren't intended to. In my game I could build atop bonus and luxury (without connecting them) resources but not strategics. I think following the maoi approach of improve with no connection is fine, it can be a boon for the Aplekton to gain a little extra yields from the underlying resource. I liked its utility, the extra vision can be helpful in permitting you to goad the AI to DOW (or agree to X turns of peace) you because more of their troop movements are in LOS. The adjacency yields complement a tall GTPI focused playstyle. Their downside is that they cannot function as canals, again unsure if intended

 

[Mizo]

I am quite dumb when it comes to getting the Civ reworks to properly work on my side. Can someone modularise Rome and the Machrek rework?

 

[ildivincodino99]

The Egypt rework also works, it's better flavored than vanilla VP

England, Rome and Greece are still not working, but you managed to make working more than half civs Hinin meant to rework, so it's still a good job

 

[CromulentRomulan]

The Egypt rework also works, it's better flavored than vanilla VP

England, Rome and Greece are still not working, but you managed to make working more than half civs Hinin meant to rework, so it's still a good job

Does the Egypt rework function simply by adding its files and database changes to the modinfo file or was additional edits required?

 

[CromulentRomulan]

@Hinin the flavour changes made to Morocco's disposition result in them making some very odd policy tree choices. I've seen them open with authority pretty often and one game they went tradition, artistry, imperialism then freedom

 

[ildivincodino99]

Will these tweaks ever be updated to 4.2.7 version officially?

 

[Deeexxx]

We can only hope so, really loved these tweaks. Hopefully they will get updated one day

 

[gwennog]

Hello, really not sure that @Hinin will come back to this mod for a while. Waiting for his return, I am willing to update the parts that interest you but not in a single tweak. By separating each part (civs, units,...) I want to do the job well and quickly provide things that work with 4.2. Tell me if you are interested and an order of priority in what you like the most.

 

[Deeexxx]

Hello, really not sure that @Hinin will come back to this mod for a while. Waiting for his return, I am willing to update the parts that interest you but not in a single tweak. By separating each part (civs, units,...) I want to do the job well and quickly provide things that work with 4.2. Tell me if you are interested and an order of priority in what you like the most.

For me personally the Ottoman change was number 1 and if i recall the name correctly the "Machrek" update ( Arabia/Persia/Byzantium/Egypt) were the most exciting. But i honestly enjoyed every part of the mod back then so whatever is most doable for you works. Thanks a ton in advance. Cant wait to play this again

 

[Dragonfabri]

Can confirm the above! And since Hinin is working on a lot of stuff currently, here's the civs that work, no balance or code changes needed, with 4.0+
This includes Arabia, Byzantium, Persia and Egypt. I'll leave the updating of things thst actually need updates to real modders, but this can save you some time i hope!

 

[ildivincodino99]

Hello, really not sure that @Hinin will come back to this mod for a while. Waiting for his return, I am willing to update the parts that interest you but not in a single tweak. By separating each part (civs, units,...) I want to do the job well and quickly provide things that work with 4.2. Tell me if you are interested and an order of priority in what you like the most.

Thank you in advance, Gwennog!

In my opinion, the most prominent and nice feature of the Tweaks were the ones about civs: nowadays, we have missing Greece, Rome, England and Inca that

Semi OT: Hinin on the VP Discord posted a new version of this mod (although it was done pre 4.x I suppose), does it work that version?

 

[Deeexxx]

Thank you in advance, Gwennog!

In my opinion, the most prominent and nice feature of the Tweaks were the ones about civs: nowadays, we have missing Greece, Rome, England and Inca that

Semi OT: Hinin on the VP Discord posted a new version of this mod (although it was done pre 4.x I suppose), does it work that version?

if that version ends up working could you upload it and link it here?

 

[ildivincodino99]

if that version ends up working could you upload it and link it here?

No, another person on Discord asked Hinin, and he said that is not compatible.