useless AI in svn version

[Noriad2]

Currently playing latest SVN - large map/deity/nightmare.

The AI was slow to expand in the beginning but became faster in the classical era. I know most civs on the planet (got a lucky break spotting a ship from another continent across 3 watertiles with my tracker) and for a while, I got the message that an AI civ founded another city roughly every other turn. I have 10 cities, 5 AIs are larger than me, largest is 19 cities.

I must say that the new education system makes the game much more difficult at the highest level, requiring continual large investments to prevent going negative. It made me fall behind several dozen techs and it is really hard to catch up.

 

[MacCoise]

Yes, Education system is very challenging

 

[BlueGenie]

They take a 'long' break from expanding more after they have three cities. This is caused by BlueGenies civic changes because i did not notice it that much in test games after reverting those changes.

I am still testing that out, have not had much time to play though and as I test on Eternity (as Joe states that these problems are not around in lower speeds and because we do have a bunch of players that like the slower speeds).

For testing purposes
I have reduced the PreMaintTribe to -60% City maintenance (total -85% during Anarchism now only)
I have increased starting free units in A_New_Dawn to 25 (partly for testing purposes but also for opening up for the AI to be able to handle more units without excess costs, for the player to be able to save more animals for later use in PreHistory/Ancient, ),
I have set PreMaintTribe to obsolete at Chiefdom tech. I would like to have the PreTribeMaint reduced in -Maint strength over time, by tech unlocking, so by the time it obsoletes it is down to -20%, but do not know how to do that.
I have gone through and reduced all (except Crime) cost buildings by a third (the negative gold commerce changes that in an option are set to City Maintenances). This because I do not build them anyway so does not make a difference for my game but want to see if it affects teh AI, if with lower City Maintenances it is more happy to expand.

I fear/think partly why the AI does not expand is because it is cheaper to stay in Anarchism with 3 cities than going to Chiefdom so it gets stuck on 3 cities as the 4th is way, way too much for it to handle. Trying to force it's hand (and unfortunately everyone else's too) to jump on Chiefdom Civic as soon as possible, see if that makes a difference at all.

Cheers

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

With the latest SVN and "no positive traits" I can't keep up with the ai in tech or cities any more. They don't stop at 3 cities either. I am not sure about the gatherers building improvements. They are building routes but still are not improving all their resources.

 

[Noriad2]

For testing purposes
I have reduced the PreMaintTribe to -60% City maintenance (total -85% during Anarchism now only)
I have increased starting free units in A_New_Dawn to 25 (partly for testing purposes but also for opening up for the AI to be able to handle more units without excess costs, for the player to be able to save more animals for later use in PreHistory/Ancient, ),
I have set PreMaintTribe to obsolete at Chiefdom tech. I would like to have the PreTribeMaint reduced in -Maint strength over time, by tech unlocking, so by the time it obsoletes it is down to -20%, but do not know how to do that.
I have gone through and reduced all (except Crime) cost buildings by a third (the negative gold commerce changes that in an option are set to City Maintenances). This because I do not build them anyway so does not make a difference for my game but want to see if it affects teh AI, if with lower City Maintenances it is more happy to expand.

I fear/think partly why the AI does not expand is because it is cheaper to stay in Anarchism with 3 cities than going to Chiefdom so it gets stuck on 3 cities as the 4th is way, way too much for it to handle. Trying to force it's hand (and unfortunately everyone else's too) to jump on Chiefdom Civic as soon as possible, see if that makes a difference at all.

I think that Anarchism is overpowered, not just to Chiefdom but to later civics as well.

In my current Deity/nightmare game (SVN 8196) I reached the Middle Ages with 14 cities, and +200/turn cash income without building wealth. So I thought *what the heck* and changed to Republic. My income dropped to minus 600 and later to minus 750 per turn as I started conquering. Luckily the AIs are swimming in cash so I get additional income from powerselling resources, techs and workers, so I can continue to benefit from the Forums that come with Republic.

Perhaps the 25% maintenance reduction from Anarchism could be reduced, and the Palace could be given a maintenance reduction (regardless of civic) to compensate? That way the income drop from going out of Anarchism would be reduced.

 

[MacCoise]

With the latest SVN and "no positive traits" I can't keep up with the ai in tech or cities any more. They don't stop at 3 cities either. I am not sure about the gatherers building improvements. They are building routes but still are not improving all their resources.

What is "no positive traits?

Start with no positive traits? I always use that nut some CIVs don't expand...

 

[MacCoise]

Whats with all the Healers?

Latest SVN on auto play

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

We probably need to figure out where all those little shields come from and make some for the different build-up commands so we can see which healers are fortified, which doing disease work and which are healing other units.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Whats with all the Healers?

Latest SVN on auto play

The whole game has been played on the latest SVN?

I thought I'd been able to repair the incorrect calculations there - this is really strange! I'll go back and do some further profiling and figure out what the hell is causing the miscounting. Looks a little better than it WAS at least. But seriously something isn't right here and I'll figure it out as soon as I can.

 

[MacCoise]

The whole game has been played on the latest SVN?

I thought I'd been able to repair the incorrect calculations there - this is really strange! I'll go back and do some further profiling and figure out what the hell is causing the miscounting. Looks a little better than it WAS at least. But seriously something isn't right here and I'll figure it out as soon as I can.

No, Updated at some point I think but the healers were definitely built after update

 

[MacCoise]

This is from a game played 100% on latest SVN . Epic Speed I think, just in Ancient Era

WB shows lots of cities across the World building Healers

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is from a game played 100% on latest SVN . Epic Speed I think, just in Ancient Era

WB shows lots of cities across the World building Healers

Ok. Certainly one of my highest priorities is to fix this.

Out of curiosity - I've never actually setup an autoplay like that and I've been really wanting to learn how lately since AI work does greatly benefit from being able to. So I suppose now is as good a time as any to ask... can you or anyone else help me understand how to setup an autogame?

 

[Harrier]

Ok. Certainly one of my highest priorities is to fix this.

Out of curiosity - I've never actually setup an autoplay like that and I've been really wanting to learn how lately since AI work does greatly benefit from being able to. So I suppose now is as good a time as any to ask... can you or anyone else help me understand how to setup an autogame?

In game, just press CTRL SHIFT x, Then select the number of turns to autoplay. You can stop it at any time, if you want to - by pressing CTRL SHIFT x again.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I think you also need cheat mode enabled.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Do you have to do anything special so you can see around the full map like reveal all in the worldbuilder or something?

 

[Harrier]

Do you have to do anything special so you can see around the full map like reveal all in the worldbuilder or something?

IIRC - you just see what you would if you were playing the civ yourself. That is you do not get to see the AI moves. You are locked on to the part of the map you were on when issueing the command. The difference is the AI plays your civ. Much quicker than doing it yourself. It is usefull for checking expansion speeds, etc.

To see what has happened on the full map you have to go into WB yourself, at the end of a run.

Unless I am forgetting something.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Ok, cool that works. Thanks all!

 

[BlueGenie]

I think that Anarchism is overpowered, not just to Chiefdom but to later civics as well.

In my current Deity/nightmare game (SVN 8196) I reached the Middle Ages with 14 cities, and +200/turn cash income without building wealth. So I thought *what the heck* and changed to Republic. My income dropped to minus 600 and later to minus 750 per turn as I started conquering. Luckily the AIs are swimming in cash so I get additional income from powerselling resources, techs and workers, so I can continue to benefit from the Forums that come with Republic.

Perhaps the 25% maintenance reduction from Anarchism could be reduced, and the Palace could be given a maintenance reduction (regardless of civic) to compensate? That way the income drop from going out of Anarchism would be reduced.

You are probably very correct. The Anarchism should really have a zero or even a negative impact on City Maintenances, thus removing the -25% homeland, or even making it +25% homeland, and compensating with the PreTribeMaint, or some other means of reducing the very early maintenances for playability.

A Strongman's Hut perhaps that is auto-built everywhere (so not a national wonder) and starts with getting maintenances down to 0, and with researched technologies having that reduction reduced until down to next to nothing right before Chiefdom, on which it obsoletes.
That way Chiefdom would be a very valid option after all.

But, again, this is still under testing and I have little time to actually test. My previous testing is still undergoing and is showing some promise. I am miffed that I chose Tech Diffusion though because it is hard now to see how far ahead the AI actually is when I get +50-75% research every turn.

I am going to be unable to play or post for a while, a month or so, it would be great if others could do a little testing and discuss with the C2C team what they figure out.

Cheers

 

[Snofru1]

I´d like to confirm that the AIs produce Healers like crazy with current SVN.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I will be making sure that's corrected with the highest of priority.