Useless vs. Must-Have City Improvements

[WackenOpenAir]

@WackenOpenAir:

* A river has the same effect as an aqueduct, has no construction cost and zero upkeep
* You only need a granary for your settler factory/-ies
* You only need barracks for your warrior/spearma,... ...modern armour factories
* Harbours are essential once you go overseas as a harbour means you benefit from all your luxuries and have access to all your resorces...
* A courthouse will double your production at max corruption. Add a police station and you produce three shields, not one, per turn --> Forbidden Palace in 67 instead of 200 turns...
* Temples are just as useful as libraries in pushing out your borders and will help in beating corruption by WLTKD, something libraries don't do

-You cant have every city at a river.
-Barracks are only need for units yes, but units are such a good investment, you want to build them almost everywhere. (if your goal is an optimal game, in my book that is win as fast as possible. Every victory condition benefits from fast and early conquest)
-you really shouldnt be doing anything in those fully corrupt cities.
-granary and harbor are indeed needed only in some cities, but their role is so important there that i think they deserve a high notation.
-Temples can sometimes be used for border expansion, but that is pretty rare. In good cities you rather have a library. Bad cities are not really important anyway.

 

[gmaharriet]

-Temples can sometimes be used for border expansion, but that is pretty rare.

Agreed! I build them when I'm about 10-20 tiles from domination and my next victim is on another island/continent and I'm too lazy to load up for another invasion. Cash rush a few temples and press "enter" 4 times.

 

[Aceman101]

In order from most to least usefull.

Aquaduct

This is very important, but I tend to not build it because it costs too much shields and I don't really need cities that are over size 6 in the ancient and middle ages. Only my core cities which I use to produce units.

Barracks

This is definetly one of the most useful city improvements .

Granary

I don't really build these much. Only in my settler factories.

Harbor

This is very important. I have one on every high-shield-producing coastal town. Because I like naval units and i'm gonna want veteran ones.

Marketplace

This is also very important. I build it in all my cities that produce a reasonable amount of wealth.

Factory

I think this should be further up the list because without it, It would take so long to produce any industrial or modern aged unit or improvements. And especially naval units. This is what makes the game exell.

Library

This is in about the right spot. As well as science Lib's also make three culture per turn which is better than a temple.

Courthouse

This can be very important in those pesky towns that are corrupt, though it doesn't help a great deal. However a police station a couthouse and police officers can almost fully reduce corruption. But if the town is corrupt than normally players would irrigate all the squares around it (I do). To get more food. So corrupt towns can support many police officers if the tiles are irrigated.

University

I don't build this too often because I think it has only the same research effect as a library and it costs too much shields. I do build them in m y core cities though.

ResearchLab

I never build these because I would be building the internet.

Temple

This is one of my least useful city improvements. To get culture I would just build a library. I think bank should be in front of this.

Bank

Although this costs much it has its uses. I build them in my core cities that produce high amounts of wealth. I need at least eight of these so i can get eight stock exchanges to get the wall street.

Cathedral

These are one of my least favourite improvements. But if a town is in major civil disorder I ocassionally build them. But if I have lots of lux and all my citizens are happy I would never build it.

Colloseum

This is even worse than a cathedral. I would not build these at all.

City Walls

Now, I agree with you that these are the worst. People always build them. I never build them because...
(a) they knock down if the city is over pop 6.
(b) It makes hardly any improvements in defense.
(c) Say a spearman was defending the town it would only increase the spearmen from 2 to 3. And you wouldn't have these in a town that is producing musketmen because you need more than 6 pop to quickly build the musketman.
(d) I would rather build an archer than waste my shields on this wall.
(e) Most cities don't need defenders on them. The objective is to intercept enemy attacks not wait for them to attack.

These are just some of my opinions .

 

[AznWarlord]

My three most important buildings are the Barracks, which let you upgrade and builds veterans which totally dominate the regulars that AI's build, the Granary, which lets you spit out Settlers and workers before your city is stuck at size 1, and temples, because those religious neighbors are stealing all my new cities! The temple does not suck, it saves your cities from conversions, and it lso lets you cities convert. No way I'm gonna have a town with a square border.

 

[MAS]

My three most important buildings are the Barracks, which let you upgrade and builds veterans which totally dominate the regulars that AI's build, the Granary, which lets you spit out Settlers and workers before your city is stuck at size 1, and temples, because those religious neighbors are stealing all my new cities! The temple does not suck, it saves your cities from conversions, and it lso lets you cities convert. No way I'm gonna have a town with a square border.

A temple cost 60 shields, you could build 2 horseman with that, and you could use those to conquer/raise your culturally hostile neighbors.

Interpret your neighbors as a culture terrorist, from there, you should be able to reason that they should be destroyed.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Sorry AznWarlord,

Try being a little more open to advice if you want to improve your game

Temples really do suck bad and agricultural really does rock every other trait by a large margin.

 

[Sashie VII]

The temple does not suck, it saves your cities from conversions, and it lso lets you cities convert

I build temples, and I don't think they suck either.

But, conversions are non-factor when you should be conquering the enemy when even their corrupted border towns have culture.

 

[Tomoyo]

If I were to rank the improvements, it'd be really similar to Wacken's. I would probably switch Harbor and Marketplace just because Marketplaces are useful in more cities than Harbors are, though Marketplaces wouldn't be so hot without Harbors, and vice versa.

Temples are one of the most pointless improvements. The only things they do are increase culture and allow you to build a cathedral. They don't actually help your happiness. You can get the content face it gives you by spending the maintenance gold on the luxury slider. Expanded borders are pretty, though, so I build them a lot.

 

[Sashie VII]

The only things they do are increase culture and allow you to build a cathedral.

True

You can get the content face it gives you by spending the maintenance gold on the luxury slider.

True

Expanded borders are pretty, though, so I build them a lot.

Also true

I know they're not great, but I just like them nonetheless.

 

[Desertsnow]

I build more Temples, Universities and Banks and fewer Courthouses than either Wacken or Aceman, but otherwise, my list would be similar to Aceman's. Walls are generally a waste, and Colosseums are not worth the expense except maybe in huge cities and incorrigibly disorder-prone towns. I agree with both though, in that I build plenty of Barracks and almost always an Aqueduct either immediately or at least soon after it becomes available; these are, I believe, among the most important improvements to build.

 

[ahamid13]

but what about having temples and colosseums to spark a 'we love the emperor' day? i like it when the masses chant my name and throw flowers at me as i pass the roads on my gold chariot.. and i think it's certainly doable to have these two in your more established cities, at least up to Monarch level..

 

[seanos08]

I never build walls. Marketplaces are critical in cities over size 6 if you have 3 + lux. And I am obsessed with building barracks. Libraries beat temples for culture. I only build temples if I am religious or really need a cathedral.

 

[Pyrrhos]

1. Granary, Temple & Barracks. Essential in the very early stages of the game but not in every town, nor thereafter.

2. Marketplace. Not only the money but most importantly the escalating every additional luxury provides. A marketplace & three or four luxuries will do the job of temple + cathedral + colloseum AND the lux tax slider...

3. Harbour

4. Factory

5. Mass Transit System

The rest are optional.

 

[AznWarlord]

I never build walls, and courthouses only in cities very far away from my capital. The Temple is the one I put in my core city as early as possible, so the border expands massively.

Barracks is a must in every town, war is definately unavoidable for me, most of the time, someone else is declaring it.

Agricultural is mainly useful for big cities, and the main point of having big cities is for more shields. But that shouldn't be a problem if you actually mine your lands, which I usually end up doing. This is why I go with industrious as the best, since workers work faster, you get the shields and food that Agric. gives, by allowing faster mining and irrigating, plus getting rid of the extra pollution that you get is a piece of cake. Large cities getmore shields, so even if thy do grow slower, you're still getting aout the same shields, plus faster workers (a road gets laid down in only 2 turns under industrious, very useful for connecting cities and getting resources).

 

[Sashie VII]

Barracks is a must in every town

Not so. If they're not producing units then you don't need it.

 

[AznWarlord]

Well, that's just in case, I hate making regular units, they just suck so much. Especially in the first turns, I'm making veteran 4 hp bar units, and th AI's got a bunch of useless 3hp bar regulars.

 

[Sashie VII]

What i meant was they are not needed in every town. Some towns will be too corrupt to produce, some would focus on something else other than military, and some could produce artillery units.

 

[darski]

I think people are not making allowance for the ways others play the game. I want a cultural victory so a temple is early on my list of builds especially if I am playing Babs as they are only a 15 turn item in a decent city,

Regarding barracks, they are very helpful in a likely war zone because they heal units faster.

One question that I never see asked about these building improvements is what do you do for those 100,000 turns when there is nothing to build and nothing to do if you skip all these things. I usually build everything in every city just because there is nothing else to do. I guess that is what wealth is for eh?

 

[Sashie VII]

I think people are not making allowance for the ways others play the game.

Hey, the greats said temples are useless but still I love them

Regarding barracks, they are very helpful in a likely war zone because they heal units faster.

A few border towns, my point was not every town.

I build wealth in IA to finance steals and deficit research.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I think people are not making allowance for the ways others play the game. I want a cultural victory so a temple is early on my list of builds especially if I am playing Babs as they are only a 15 turn item in a decent city,

Regarding barracks, they are very helpful in a likely war zone because they heal units faster.

One question that I never see asked about these building improvements is what do you do for those 100,000 turns when there is nothing to build and nothing to do if you skip all these things. I usually build everything in every city just because there is nothing else to do. I guess that is what wealth is for eh?

I do respect other playing styles, and thats why i often add a disclaimer to my advice. Everything i post and say in civ is focused to win as fast as possible in the victory condition of choise. Winning in as few turns as possible is always my goal in civ.

All victory conditions are best served by a strong early conquest phase. Even if your goal is space or UN and thus research to modern age, units are often more valuable in early game than libraries because extra cities simply help you better than libraries in existing cities. Even if those extra cities are corrupt. You can make scientist farms in these newly conquered area's (in c3c where the specialist makes 3 beakers)

So, i never have nothing to build. Regardless of my victory condition, most of my core cities will be producing units troughout most of the game. Only the few needed aquaducts, a few granaries and harbors. Conquest/domination should be won by knights this way and there is no need for libraries or markets. In science games, my core builds libraries in the middel ages. The best cities build them in early MA, the lesser core cities build them halfway into the middle ages.

Civ is a pretty badly balanced game. Conquest is too strong for a good game balance. Libraries provide science, markets provide happiness, granaries provide food etc... conquering enemies provides it all and usually more (wonders, luxuries, population) than any of those buildings could provide.

Indeed, temples are important if you aim for a cultural victory. That is pretty obvious of course. If you are not aiming for these victories however, they are really, really crappy.