Useless vs. Must-Have City Improvements

[Desertsnow]

but what about having temples and colosseums to spark a 'we love the emperor' day?

I prefer Temple and Cathedral for this, though I don't build too many of the latter unless I'm religious.

I never build walls, and courthouses only in cities very far away from my capital. The Temple is the one I put in my core city as early as possible, so the border expands massively.

Barracks is a must in every town, war is definately unavoidable for me, most of the time, someone else is declaring it.

I think people are not making allowance for the ways others play the game. I want a cultural victory so a temple is early on my list of builds especially if I am playing Babs as they are only a 15 turn item in a decent city,

Regarding barracks, they are very helpful in a likely war zone because they heal units faster.

I agree on both counts. Temple for early cultural expansion, as I'm very much a builder myself, but Barracks for strength and quick recovery. I'll sooner or later (usually sooner) see a stack of units lurking around my borders, wearing the colours of that 'gracious' neighbor. *grumblegrumble*

 

[Sweetchuck]

I don't build walls. I generally start out by building temples (because that gets the radius expansion clock working). I tend to build my cities 6 tiles or so apart, so I'm looking for that quick expansion.

Barracks and harbors are the next must. Barracks to allow unit upgrades and harbors to get cities connected since I'm building them faster initially than I can build roads, considering other tile improvements needed - too many tasks, not enough workers at first.

The more luxes I can get spread around, the better off I am - is how I figure.

 

[Aceman101]

Well, that's just in case, I hate making regular units, they just suck so much. Especially in the first turns, I'm making veteran 4 hp bar units, and th AI's got a bunch of useless 3hp bar regulars.

Then get Sunztus and you'll get barracks in every city . And you don't need a lot of barracks in the ancient ages (Well, I don't).

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Sun tzu is way too late for barracks. Sometimes you could have achieved domination or conquest victory by the time it becomes available.

On top of that, it is way too expensive to build it yourself.

 

[Pyrrhos]

Sun tzu is way too late for barracks. Sometimes you could have achieved domination or conquest victory by the time it becomes available.

On a small map, yes. Never on a large to huge!

 

[RFHolloway]

I agree on both counts. Temple for early cultural expansion, as I'm very much a builder myself, but Barracks for strength and quick recovery. I'll sooner or later (usually sooner) see a stack of units lurking around my borders, wearing the colours of that 'gracious' neighbor. *grumblegrumble*

Library is better than a temple unless you are relegious and not scientific. For 20 extra shields you get 1 extra Cpt (higher Culture per shield ratio if you are going cultural). The one happy face is offset by the extra scientific income (you can afford to raise the lux slider, because your cities are producing more science.) The maintenance costs are the same.

For me the order is Granery (not everywhere but it is the most important to consider) Barracks (again only in those cities that I use it) Library (because I am usually going for cultural victory) Market place (to solve happiness once I get some luxuries) Cathedral (because by this stage I have built/taken the TOA) Colluseum (If I really get despirate and have enough units).

 

[darski]

If you play Babs you get a temple build right away and the library comes somewhat later.

I use the temple both for culture(mainly) and as a place holder while awaiting the pop for a settler.

 

[MAS]

I want a cultural victory so a temple is early on my list of builds

For a fast as possible cultural victory:

If you go for the 20K single city, then that one city should build a temple early. The rest should be managed the same way as Wacken described.

If you go for the 100K (or 160K for huge maps) nation wide.
You should first conquer till near the domination limit ala Wacken, then disband-rush and pop-rush (with feudalism) all the cultural buildings (thus also the temples) everywhere.

So Wacken is still correct.


That said, I admit I usually don't play exactly that way, I have my own set of variant rules I play by because I think it is more fun...

 

[darski]

What is funny is that I learned the "build the temple fast and often for culture victory" from right here at Civfan III.

Times change indeed.

 

[AznWarlord]

Me, I just simply need barracks. I can't stand regulars, 3 healths bars is way too little. Plus, if you have defending units in every city, which you should, you can upgrade them as soon as you discover the necessary techs.

I usually start my first move on a barracks, and crank out veterans to take out conscript barbs and regulars.

 

[Desertsnow]

This is exactly why I don't often build SunTzu (to completion at least); by the time it comes online, I already have barracks in a majority of my cities.

 

[Aceman101]

Sun tzu is way too late for barracks. Sometimes you could have achieved domination or conquest victory by the time it becomes available.

On top of that, it is way too expensive to build it yourself.

Sorry, I'm forgeting the fact that lots of people win in the ancient ages. But I always play through all the ages. So I would build it every time.

BUT I disagree with you that Sun Tzus is way to expensive. If you played through the whole game and made many new cities, AFTER Sun Tzus. It would add up to a lot more shields from seperate barracks being built in every city. Thus if 20 cities need barracks then that would add up to 800 shields. Now that is a lot more than what Sun Tzus needs.

But if you don't play the game that far then I agree that building barracks in each city seperately is the way to go. But like in all games you cannot predict how many turns it will take to win .

 

[downhill]

...Plus, if you have defending units in every city, which you should...

With CxxC spacing and roads, even slow units can get from city to city in one turn (post engineering or with no rivers to cross in pre-engineering days). For any city that cannot be reached in one turn by fast-moving units (either from existing visible units or out of the fog), it is unnecessary to keep units in that city at all times. After a strategic railnet is in place, one can be even more flexible with defenses.

Obviously, there are other reasons to station units in cities (healing, resistance suppression, flip prevention, MP-->happiness), but "a defender in every city" as a strict rule will significantly hamper offensive strategies and cripple ones treasury.

 

[Aceman101]

I ususally only put defenders in border cities.
Btw welcome to the forums, downhill.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I usually don't build a single defensive unit in my games. They are slow, they can't attack, they are just a waste. If i do build any, those are usually deployed in my opponents territory rather than my own.

 

[ahamid13]

wacken, do you follow tupaclives game? the one he played as King Tupac of Zulu.. in the latter stages he goes to war with infantry, even have an army of infantries.. what do u think about that?

 

[greygamer]

Library is better than a temple unless you are relegious and not scientific. For 20 extra shields you get 1 extra Cpt (higher Culture per shield ratio if you are going cultural). The one happy face is offset by the extra scientific income (you can afford to raise the lux slider, because your cities are producing more science.) The maintenance costs are the same.

I totally agree, Libraries are way more useful than temples, though they do require an optional tech though

 

[Norton II]

wacken, do you follow tupaclives game? the one he played as King Tupac of Zulu.. in the latter stages he goes to war with infantry, even have an army of infantries.. what do u think about that?

Keep in mind that he couldn't research optional techs in that game, so no cavalry. Also, he had to fight to get oil, so tanks were out for a while, too. Under those circumstances, infantry was the best offensive unit available.

 

[Aabraxan]

I tend to build my cities 6 tiles or so apart, so I'm looking for that quick expansion.

Does this mean that you're building cities with a CxxxxxxC ?!?

 

[Aabraxan]

Me, I just simply need barracks. I can't stand regulars, 3 healths bars is way too little. Plus, if you have defending units in every city, which you should, you can upgrade them as soon as you discover the necessary techs.

I usually start my first move on a barracks, and crank out veterans to take out conscript barbs and regulars.

You don't need defenders in every city. Station a few stacks of fast attackers around the perimeter of your empire and use them offensively. IOW, kill intruders before they can attack.

Besides, in your corrupt cities, even barracks take a long time to build. Build a few barracks in core, unit-producing cities, then send the units to the hinterlands for defense duty.