Uses for 'worthless' wonders?

[Softnum]

I'm wondering what people think of the less-used wonders. Like, what's the Chicken Pizza (Chichen Itza) for? Does anyone build the Hagia Sophia? What other wonders do people consider useless?

 

[WTBCzero]

Hagia Sophia is useful when you have just conquered/settled a area with large amounts of jungle/useless improvements.


And of course everyone builds the Chichen Itza since it's such a useful wonder.

 

[Cosmichail]

Chichen Itza increases your city's defenses/walls and is good for GPriest point. Hagia Sofia is one I never build. Speed up workers sure but by the time I can build Hagia Sofia I really don't need it and investing hammers just for that is again useless.

Although Colossus is great for extra commerce it's lifespan is just too short especially if you need astronomy. Kind of useless but a cheap build.

Killer combo with Great lighthouse though but that's only good if you have neighbours with open borders. AW games TGL has no use.

 

[svv]

I build Hagia Sophia when I can because it's Great Engineer points.

In fact, all wonders have some use as great person points. Specialists have a more immediate impact on gp points, but you don't have to feed wonders.

 

[Elrohir]

They're great for when you have stone or marble, whatever speeds it along, and or you're industrious - you can build them up until one turn before completion, then build other things. When some dumb AI builds it, you're flush with cash!

 

[Evanesce]

Specialists have a more immediate impact on gp points, but you don't have to feed wonders.

That's a good way to say it

On Emperor, Continents/Pangaea, the AI puts off Colossus for a long time; sometimes it's still available when I have a city that can build it in 7-10 turns, so... GP points, culture, and extra commerce is good for such a short build, even with its short life span. On Archipelago, it's definitely one of the best wonders and worth shooting for. I've even neglected Astronomy for a little bit to keep the commerce bonus going (not too long, though).

 

[Sisiutil]

While no wonder is categorically "useless", some offer such minimal benefits that they're not worth building.

Chichen Itza is probably the least useful wonder in the game. The reason for this is the AI's tendency to pillage rather than attacking cities. There's no sense in hunkering down inside the city walls when all your tile improvements are being ruined, especially those cottages that took so many turns to become villages and towns.

I'm actually rather fond of Hagia Sophia; it's a "nice to have" wonder in my book. I usually play Epic speed and run the Slavery civic for most of the game, never switching to Serfdom, so it provides a nice boost to my Workers (assuming I have a lot of tiles to improve). The Great Engineer points are also very nice, especially if I can build it in a city with another GE wonder like the Hanging Gardens.

I almost never build Notre Dame, the Sistine Chapel (unless I'm going for a cultural win), the Great Lighthouse, the Temple of Artemis, the Parthenon, or Versailles. They are all nice to capture, however.

 

[jerVL/kg]

The best use for crappy Wonders is generating cash by NOT completing them. So, build Chicken Itza or Sistine Chapel to within one turn of completion, take it out of your queue, and once the AI builds it you get a 1gp refund for every hammer invested -- +50% if you're Industrious, and +100% if you have a 1/2 cost resource!! The question, as always, is if the city has more important needs that you're wasting on building a wonder...

Hagia Sophia is a great wonder, IMO. It gives Engineering points (very rare) and the worker-speed bonus always comes around just about the time I need to run Serfdom anyway. Chicken Itza? Not so much. The +25% culture bonus is useless since it can be catapulted away, and when was the last time you actually had to defend your cities from invasion, anyway??

I like Notre Dame, especially on a map where happiness is an issue. (I'm fond of build/rushing it on a newly conquered continent, to deal with "Return To Our Motherland" penalties.) Sistine Chapel has fairly good synergy with Mercantilism, as newly founded cities will be able to run a citizen specialist with +2 culture, equal to giving your civ the Creative trait. Angkor Wat can be great with the right strategy, if you're Spiritual and have lots of religions to build cheap temples & run priests with +1 hammer. You'll spam lots and lots of Great Prophets with this tactic, though.

Colossus tends to be a weak wonder, even on Archipelago maps. Typically, I always work the land before the ocean, and I've got Astronomy by the time I get around to working coastal tiles. However, I'm currently playing a game where I started on a cold, isolated rock of ice & snow, with practically NO areable land whatsoever! Lots of ocean, though -- Colossus is keeping my economy alive, in that game!

I don't like capturing Versailles since the AI rarely builds it in a convenient location. It's one of the wonders I'll rush with a great engineer, once I figure out where it belongs. Sometimes I'll rush the Parthenon too, if I get an early GE with nothing else to build -- but usually, that turns out to be a waste.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I would build the Hagia Sophia if I have lots of jungle and I have the resource. It's actually quite efficient as long as you have a decent number of workers.

The Colossus is not a wonder I would like to build. I'd rather work cottages for them to grow into towns. Why would you want to work water tiles anyway? Only in a watery map, perhaps, but then you'd rather get Great Lighthouse and Temple of Artemis in that case.

Parthenon: very hard to pull off. You need to be a really dedicated specialist-economy player and are able to run caste system and pacifism with a philosophical leader. You also need to be able to take advantage of all those tech lightbulbs on mad conquest. Plus you need workers to slowly transition to cottage economy. Hmm... maybe a great engineer to pop the Hagia Sophia?

A few wonders where I would like to be enlightened upon:

Angkor Wat: how many priests do you have to run for it to break even? What do you want to do with all those Great Prophets anyway?

Spiral Mineret and University of Sankore: It gives you like 7 gold/14 beakers a turn at most for a 550 hammers investment, and that's if you wasted all your hammers on temples. If you need to charge interest for hammers spent now and gold gained later, and if 1 hammer is about 2-3 gold, the payoff won't even cover the "interest".

 

[Sisiutil]

I would build the Hagia Sophia if I have lots of jungle and I have the resource. It's actually quite efficient as long as you have a decent number of workers.

The Colossus is not a wonder I would like to build. I'd rather work cottages for them to grow into towns. Why would you want to work water tiles anyway? Only in a watery map, perhaps, but then you'd rather get Great Lighthouse and Temple of Artemis in that case.

Parthenon: very hard to pull off. You need to be a really dedicated specialist-economy player and are able to run caste system and pacifism with a philosophical leader. You also need to be able to take advantage of all those tech lightbulbs on mad conquest. Plus you need workers to slowly transition to cottage economy. Hmm... maybe a great engineer to pop the Hagia Sophia?

A few wonders where I would like to be enlightened upon:

Angkor Wat: how many priests do you have to run for it to break even? What do you want to do with all those Great Prophets anyway?

Spiral Mineret and University of Sankore: It gives you like 7 gold/14 beakers a turn at most for a 550 hammers investment, and that's if you wasted all your hammers on temples. If you need to charge interest for hammers spent now and gold gained later, and if 1 hammer is about 2-3 gold, the payoff won't even cover the "interest".

A very good point about HS if there's a lot of jungle.

The Colossus is situational. If you have a lot of seafood tiles for your cities, and you get Metal Casting early enough (say from the Oracle), it can be worthwhile provided you also have copper. In most of my games it takes under 15 turns to complete, if that, so why not? You may get a Great Merchant from it too, and a trade mission would definitely cover the investment! I never delay Astronomy for its sake, however; the GPT you can get from overseas trade will more than make up for its loss.

SM and UofS are awesome with a leader like Ramesses. He's Industrious, so all wonders are cheap for him, as are the forges to help build them. Add in stone and Organized Religion and you can build both of those wonders 200% cheaper than normal! Plus he's Spiritual, so for him, temples are cheap as well, and they become super-buildings giving you 1 , 1 , 1 , and 2 for a very cheap outlay. Plus the wonders don't expire until very late in the game (with Computers), so you can enjoy these benefits for a very long time, especially compared to Cinderalla wonders like the Parthenon, Colossus, and Temple of Artemis.

 

[oyzar]

I figure Chichen Itza might be usefull agianst humans and sistine chapel is actually nice when going for domination victory as you can run mercantilism and get free creative trait(of course you mostly build a theater first in captured cities anyways so its kinda outshoune by the massive culture from the artist but its something at least/ or you just have eifel tower which let you run artists right off the bat).

 

[aelf]

Spiral Minaret gives 2 gold per state religion building, which, as in the case of University of Sankore, includes monasteries (until Scientific Method). The real downside to these wonders is having to choose and stay in a particular state religion.

 

[Sisiutil]

Spiral Minaret gives 2 gold per state religion building, which, as in the case of University of Sankore, includes monasteries (until Scientific Method). The real downside to these wonders is having to choose and stay in a particular state religion.

This is true. When I pull off the SM/UofS combo, I remain in one of the religious civics (OR, Theo, or Pacifism) until very late in the game--until Computers obsoletes them basically. Normally I change to Free Religion shortly after Scientific Method obsoletes the Great Library and monasteries.

I learned this in a Ramesses game where I did the usual FR switch early, then wondered why my income dropped and techs took longer to research. I figured it out and switched to Pacificism 5 turns later. Good thing Ramesses is Spiritual!

 

[InvisibleStalke]

The problem with Hagia Sophia is that by the time it comes along I almost always have more workers than I need at that point - either captured through conquest if I have a large empire or because I have finished terraforming with a small empire.

The colossus is great when you are financial - each water tile is 4 commerce immediately - essentially like a pre-printing press town. You can site profitable cities anywhere you can find food - often in places you can't grow many towns.

I've tried games where SM/UofS beelining was involved to get a lot of cities with Roosevelt (Industrious/Org - helps you get these wonders and allows a lot of cities). I didn't really find it paying - building extra temples and monasteries where you don't need them didn't generate enough of a benefit compared to the other options available that suited the specialization of the city.

Ankor Wat I often consider - if I lightbulb philosophy and I'm playing a specialist economy running representation from the pyramids. It makes priests a very good research/production/cash compromise and helps the cities that are running lots of specialists still get some production without whipping.

Being able to run a lot of priests mid game is handy too if I haven't got my shrine established. By then my GP farm is operational and I want it pumping out scientists. Its also impossible to guarantee the GP type if its running the Great Library (hopefully). But another city with Ankor Wat running 4-5 priests will pump me out a Great Prophet - especially if I turn down my farm to whip some infrastructure.

If I get an occasional extra Prophet later - they are useful additions to my shrine city.

 

[Harbourboy]

The main benefit of building Chichen Itza is that it stops the AI from building it, thus providing a sort of 25% boost to all YOUR city attacks.

 

[LucyDuke]

The main benefit of building Chichen Itza is that it stops the AI from building it, thus providing a sort of 25% boost to all YOUR city attacks.

While true, this argument holds for all wonders. If you get it, they don't. If you eat all the Chicken Pizza, you'll be better off when attacking the civ that would have... though no better when attacking any of the other civs.

 

[Harbourboy]

I guess I was just responding to those people who said that Chichen Itza was useless because their cities never got attacked so they would never use the 25% bonus.

Contrast this with Hagia Sophia where you might not benefit from the faster workers, but also not get any benefit from denying them to your rival either.

 

[KMadCandy]

the main benefit of chichen itza is to let the AIs build it so that i can sing abba "chiquitita" to myself when i see the message, and later when i capture it. double bonus!

 

[InvisibleStalke]

The main benefit of building Chichen Itza is that it stops the AI from building it, thus providing a sort of 25% boost to all YOUR city attacks.

The main benefit of Chichen Itza is it gives the AI's something useless to build instead of something you might be building.

It goes obsolete with catapults (in practice) - so its effect on me warring an AI is neglible.

 

[cabert]

The main benefit of Chichen Itza is it gives the AI's something useless to build instead of something you might be building.

It goes obsolete with catapults (in practice) - so its effect on me warring an AI is neglible.

so true
And I usually have catapults before the big chicken is built.

Hagia Sophia is situational, but I built it often. It comes in a time where I have no better wonders to build, and I'm often in the mood to get one or 2 of those shiny things .

One I very rarely build is the pentagon.
Of course it's great to have 2 XP for every troop you build. But by the time this wonder is available, I have most of my troops already built (and most of the time, the game is over already = either I'm in a good position and I don't need it, or I'm in a bad position, and 2 xps won't help me much!).
I rarely come to this tech if I'm not aiming at space, and if I'm aiming at space, I won't be needing that many highly promoted units.