v7 feedback

[Maniac]

I wasn't able to open it for some reason (the error indicated that it has something to do with the folder name of the mod, which should be "Planetfall" - mine is "Planetfall v7")

Ah woops. Yeah, I do all my modding and testing in the "Planetfall" folder, modifications which often breaks save games of the latest published patch. So I keep a seperate "Planetfall v7" folder so that I can still open saves from others.

 

[Maniac]

Did patch e change anything in regard to costs or inflation? Playing again on Emperor (as Believers), I had no problems to run 100% science for most of the game. I had maybe a few cities less and got lucky with some Great Tycoons I settled down in my capital, but in the last games I struggled not to get bankrupt (and science spending was most of the time between 0 and 30%), so it feels like something has changed.

Comments on the game without inflation always welcome!

I'm wondering if I should change Autarky back to -100% distance maintenance btw. That civic doesn't seem attractive anymore to me.

 

[Teodosio]

Comments on the game without inflation always welcome!

At last!

I'm wondering if I should change Autarky back to -100% distance maintenance btw. That civic doesn't seem attractive anymore to me.

This doesn't sound good to me. It's true that the Autarky civic seems a bit underpowered compared to the others, but perhaps you could add some other benefit.
For example, since "autarky" means "self-sufficiency", you could add a resource bonus for city tiles! +1 nutrient, mineral and energy in city square (NOT surrounding tiles), the same effect of the original SMAC's recycling tanks. Or perhaps just mineral and energy, without nutrient. What do you think?

 

[Maniac]

This doesn't sound good to me. It's true that the Autarky civic seems a bit underpowered compared to the others, but perhaps you could add some other benefit.
For example, since "autarky" means "self-sufficiency", you could add a resource bonus for city tiles! +1 nutrient, mineral and energy in city square (NOT surrounding tiles), the same effect of the original SMAC's recycling tanks. Or perhaps just mineral and energy, without nutrient. What do you think?

+1 nutrient is the Ascetic Virtues' bonus.
Regardless, I do not favour the idea of adding another benefit. I prefer bonuses which can significantly alter your gameplay. '-100% distance maintenance' achieves that goal better than '-50% distance maintenance and some additional benefit'.

So if -50% distance maintenance is underpowered, but -100% still overpowered, the solution lies somewhere in between those two numbers.

 

[Teodosio]

+1 nutrient is the Ascetic Virtues' bonus.
Regardless, I do not favour the idea of adding another benefit. I prefer bonuses which can significantly alter your gameplay. '-100% distance maintenance' achieves that goal better than '-50% distance maintenance and some additional benefit'.

So if -50% distance maintenance is underpowered, but -100% still overpowered, the solution lies somewhere in between those two numbers.

I have realized a thing: since with the latest patch you have removed "civic maintenance", and I think you have increased "city maintenance" to compensate, there is an issue. Now a civic that provides you with a -50% maintenance costs is much more powerful that before: previously it didn't matter how many reductions did you have (from civics or buildings) but you could never reduce civic maintenance, only city maintenance.
Now if you are smart about your civics and building choices you can almost bring your total expenditure to zero (except for units support). This is probably too much. I am thinking indeed that not only the bonus provided by "Autarky" is large enough, but that the bonus from "Hybrid" should be decreased, let's say around 25%. Otherwise there is really the chance of finding yourself in a zero-expenses economy

 

[Maniac]

Actually Planetfall has NEVER had civic maintenance. And since inflation has been removed, this means city maintenance and maintenance reducers have less of an effect now. I can always experiment with changing city maintenance costs if this proves a problem.

What exactly is the problem of a zero-expenses economy??

AFAIK the reason Civ4 added maintenance costs was to counter ICS and REX, ie Infinite City Sleaze and Rapid Expansion.

Should ICS ever become the dominant tactic for everyone, I can simply increase number of cities maintenance costs.

Regarding Rapid Expansion... depending on your map settings in Civ there can be a shortage of land, so there's race to grab as much land as possible before everyone else, even though this hurts your economy on the dhort term. In Planetfall however, there is the entire ocean to colonize. So personally I never feel the urge to REX. There's always room left to expand to should I wish to do so.


Regarding the Hybrid civic...
The ideal I'd like to achieve is a contrast between Terraformers and Hybrids.
Terraformers would have large populated bases with high-yield terrain improvements such as farms, boreholes and condensers which cause eco-damage. Hybrids would have more bases and control a larger territory, but their bases would be smaller, and there would be less terrain improvement, relying on the +1 mineral for fungus. Unfortunately at the moment the AI is unwilling to cooperate with this.

Anyway, the point is, I *want* the Hybrid civic to lead to an ICS playstyle. To do so, the civic should give a large reduction in number of bases maintenance. So rather than reducing that maintenance reduction, I'd look towards giving the civic a penalty to make it more balanced. Perhaps a Health reduction? Fits with the goal of smaller bases.

 

[Teodosio]

Actually Planetfall has NEVER had civic maintenance.

I should learn to talk less

What exactly is the problem of a zero-expenses economy??

I think a zero-expenses situation should be avoided since having maintenance costs cotribute to balance the game. Since, as we know, maintenance costs increase with cities and population, they provide a disadvantage to large civs compared to the smaller ones. It's a balancing gameplay mechanic, that introduces the general and classic "decreasing returns" effect.

Anyway, the point is, I *want* the Hybrid civic to lead to an ICS playstyle. To do so, the civic should give a large reduction in number of bases maintenance. So rather than reducing that maintenance reduction, I'd look towards giving the civic a penalty to make it more balanced. Perhaps a Health reduction? Fits with the goal of smaller bases.

I concur, a Health reduction would be good. Hybrid civs should have less population in their bases.