Vanilla peaceful cultural win

walkerjks

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Oct 29, 2005
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Many thanks to Victoria for providing a great nuts and bolts guide to culture wins. In addition, she is responsible for suggesting I build early theaters which is a key part of this strategy.

In this article, I will sketch out a strategy to win a peaceful cultural by turn 250 (or before). Turn 250 is a bit arbitrary, but it is where I consistently finish and it's early enough that religious or space AI victory is highly unlikely (even on deity) This was developed over the course of 20+ at Emperor, Immortal, and Deity difficulty levels using a variety of civs. My fastest win is turn 162. My slowest go to around turn 250. Typical immortal games where I get to pick the opponents run turn 200 to 220. After I won my first cultural win, I started to ask myself "is this or that bit of conventional wisdom really necessary" for virtually every aspect that is taken for granted as best strategy. In many cases, the answer was "no" and wins became faster as I simplified things.

A few highlights:

Speed - Standard, though this should work (with win turn scaled accordingly) at any speed. Numbers in this article are based on standard speed.

Civ - Any. Obviously some civs have specific bonuses that help with cultural wins. But I've become convinced that you can win a cultural victory by turn 250 with no civ bonuses at all.

Oponents - Any, though if you want fastest wins, you should leave out Kongo and Russia (due to them sucking up great people) and any civ that tends to go for culture as a priority (America, Greece, and China come to mind).

Difficulty - Any. As this is peaceful, the biggest challenge at higher difficulties is deterring attacks and grabbing enough space for 10 decent cities (though I've won with as few as 6). I do tend to reroll starts where I am too crowded by a neghboring civ at the start. Alternatively, you can go the non-peaceful route and bash your close neighbor in the ancient era.

Map - Any.

Map Size - Standard and larger. Smaller maps have the risk of the AI winning a religious victory.

Wonders - None (unless you're China)

Religion - None (unless you're Russia or Arabia)

Spies - None

Districts – Campus and theater, primarily. Commerce and harbors when there's nothing else to build. Situationally entertainment. Industrial or encampments almost never get built.

I'm assuming readers already understand the value of building at least 3 early slingers and how to defend themselves.

OK, so how is it done? In short, you want to expand wide fairly quickly. By “wide”, I mean lots of cities, not necessarily spaced out – with cities that end the game in the size 5 to 10 range mostly with 2 districts each, they can be crowded and there is no reason to avoid settling as close as 4 spaces away.

Other than the first builder, I generally don't build any more early builders. I might purchase some, as needed to take advantage of resources. I almost always purchase the first trader.

Pick divine spark as your pantheon. I can see the argument for something like dance of the aurora (combined with Jesuit education) if playing Russia, but divine spark should be the default in most cases.

Science is worth more than culture (culture will catch up once great writers start appearing), so early focus should be on science. As a result, the first 2 to 4 cities that have appropriate campus adjacency bonuses (+2 or more) get campuses first. You don't necessarily have to follow this up with libraries yet, but get two campuses to both get the boost for recorded history and to take advantage of the natural philosophy civic. These campus cities get a theater as the second district. Every other city gets theater as the first district.

At least some cities should build an ampitheater immediately after the theater district. Basically, you want book slots available whenever great writers are recruited.

When feudalism is finished, I build an average of 1 builder/city. These are used to pick up any additional luxuries that have come into my borders and to mine hills and lumber mill river forests. This essentially sets me up for high enough production to knock out the museums, archaeologists, and (some) broadcast centers. This is also a good time to review city population placement. Since I don't tend to build granaries, or irrigate much farmland, many cities are stuck at 5, 6, or 7 population. That's ok, but it does mean you should shift priorites to production over population growth as higher food production is destroyed by the housing shortages anyway. .

Every city should be building an archaeology museum when the civic is complete. Every town with a complete archaeology museum should be building an archaeologist when the civc is complete. In most cases, I like to buy my first archaeologist in a lower production city to get an earlier jump on getting a themed museum. Build broadcast museums post-radio. There are gaps between finishing a theater building and the next item becoming available. Use these turns to build traders (if routes are available), finish libraries and universities, build commercial districts or harbors, or do Campus Research or Theater Square projects (campus research is almost always better re-computers). Post-broadcast center, build whatever makes the most sense, though the game should be about over anyway.

I typically build (or buy) 1 art museum, typically in a low production city, but sometimes 0 (if I have few cities or never got a relic to fill the capitol slot) or rarely more than one. What to do with all those great artists? Use the art to trade for any books you missed out on (or to get a stolen book back). You can also occasionally get somewhat insane gpt deals for great art. Trading a painting for, effectively, 1000 gold is a good deal. That's getting an archaeologist out in the field 15 turns earlier than if you had to build it or half a broadcast center (or a settler + builder to chop a theater district if you find yourself short on cities late in the game). If I end up theming an art museum, great, but mostly the museum is for placing and trading art.

If you find yourself gold rich late in the game, consider buying a complete city. 4000 gold will get you city all the way through the archaeologist. 650 gold for a settler + 350 gold for a builder to chop 3 forests for the theater district + 500 gold for an ampitheater + 1000 gold for an archaeology museum + 1500 gold for an archaeologist gets you 2 more book slots (16 base tourism) and another themed (any additional museum after the first 6 or so is likelyk to be a themed museum after moving some artifacts around) archeological museum (27 base tourism). For 1500 gold less, you can buy the city with an art museum instead if you have kept great people around who can theme an art museum. You can repeat this as many times as you have gold for. It doesn't matter if this city doesnt grow or has terrible production – it's a straight gold for tourism swap.

Research priorities are pretty straight-forward, though there is some tweaking of order in order to maximize boosts, but, in general, it:

Writing -> Machinery -> Radio -> Computers while picking up printing somewhere in there (earlier if you have the boost, immediately after computers if you don't). Archery comes when appropriate as well. You'll miss lots of boosts, particularly in top part of the tree. That's ok. Computers is expensive without a boost, but you can still have it by turn 170 or so if you follow the campus strategy and prioritze science over culture on the cards.

Civics is a bit more complex, as exact order often depends on availability of boosts, but in general:

Drama & Poetry -> Political Philosophy -> Feudalism (possibly picking up Recorded History first) -> Exploration/Humanism (in either order) -> Natural History -> Humanism (occasionally reversed Natural History) -> Opera & Ballet/Cultural Heritage (in either order) -> Suffrage (only if you get this in time to boost computers) -> Space Race -> Social Media -> whatever makes sense (this has been, in the past, suffrage, globalization for production boosts, or reformed church to match my government up with most of the AI, etc). As with science, boosts will be missed, particularly with commerce (medieval faires, guilds, and mercantilism) when you prioritize theater districts over commercial. The extra culture from earlier great writers should make up for not getting these boosts.

Early on, once you have a pantheon, use the cards that boost production most (whether units or settlers or general hammers). As the game moves on, generally use the cards that maximize science + culture (with a slight nod to science). Gold is secondary. These could be adjacency cards, or district building bonuses or trade bonuses or the suzerain bonus card. It's highly situational. For a brief time post-feudalism, get those extra builder charges. Once computers is hit, replace the science cards with tourism cards. As the tourism civics are hit, replace any remaining culture cards with gold cards.

City states are pretty straight-forward as well. Focus on science over culture over commerce. Stockholm is worth fighting over, while generally nothing else is. Some games I am suzerain of a single CS (Stockholm), while others I have 5 or so. Use the Raj (+2 everything per suzerain) appropriately (which many games means not using it at all as other cards provide more science and.or culture).

Government is Chiefdom → Classical Republic → Merchant Republic → whatever (whatever matches up with the most civs – Sometimes it's sticking with Merchant Republic, sometimes it is changing to Democracy, and sometimes it is (ugh) Theocracy).

The way I used to play was science and commerce first, and then culture (no later than the second district anywhere). Trade routes are nice. There's a lot of flexibility in determining whether you need food or production (internal routes) or gold/culture/science (external routes). I estimate that abandoning early commercial districts for early theater saves me 10 turns or so off the win time. Yes, I no longer have trade routes with everyone. Sometimes, I end the game with 3 trade routes total. I find the tradeoff worthwhile if I know I am going for culture from turn 1. If you want to hedge your bets on victory condition, building commercial districts in the non-campus cities first is probably wiser (but slightly slower).
 
I must say that you need to keep track of roughly how many Artifacts are in the map, especially with England. 10 English cities means you need 60 Artifacts, which is about the same number of existing Artifacts in a Standard map. I know it because I did it after conquering English cities, which screwed up my Artifact counting.

Don't you need lots of Commercial Hubs too? It seems pretty gold-intensive, in my opinion, buying all those Museums and Archaeologists.
 
Don't you need lots of Commercial Hubs too? It seems pretty gold-intensive, in my opinion, buying all those Museums and Archaeologists.

In that game I had 6 cities, 3 coastal. so 6 commercial and I managed 5 harbors in the end due to proximity to the sea and a lake. The one you start with and I think I got one more from a merchant so yes roughly 13, 15 when being mercantile.

Also using a harbor / commercial / city centre adjacency you get +4 gold extra (commercial gets +2 for next to a harbor) England never starves for gold.

With regard to Artifacts... 6 English cities I used and 1 given city and also there are plenty of shipwrecks around. You do not care at all about theming, everything themes which is nice. 10 Cities will slow your victory down unless you can get them by turn 100 in which case they speed you up but with England its all about 6 slot museums... 6 cities is just fine. I think I bought 3 of my archaeologists... cities are just pumping projects by that time so can spare a bit of pump.
 
England seems the perfect choice when going such a route. Cheap Harbors for extra trade routes, 6-slots Museums and powerful Privateers/Redcoats if the need arises.

My playstyle is more aggressive and wider. Before turn 100 I usually end up with about 10-15 cities, depending on how many poor victims are in the vicinity.
 
Victoria is great at higher difficulty levels where you need to play a slightly longer game (you may need 400+ tourists, rather than 200 at lower difficulty levels). The oversized museums with no theming issues is the biggest advantage, but the coastal bias allows for more seaside resorts. And the cheap trade routes. Teddy Roosevelt is the other very good long game civ as the extra doubling of tourists is huge if the game is going past turn 200. And yes, Victoria is very nice if you are trying to get cultural victory by bashing down the opponent with the most internal tourists.

I tend to ignore trade these days and don't worry about the boosts from 4 trade routes or 2 marketplaces. In my most extreme game (turn 124 on Prince), which followed a different strategy than this, I ended the game with 1 trade route only. Most of the time following this strategy I have 5 to 7 trade routes at the end.
 
So no wonders at all? Does the production cost of Cristo Redentor and/or Eiffel Tower outweigh other things you can do with the production, like projects or more cities? Or do you win so quickly because of great works that you don't really even need to rely on resorts?
 
So no wonders at all? Does the production cost of Cristo Redentor and/or Eiffel Tower outweigh other things you can do with the production, like projects or more cities? Or do you win so quickly because of great works that you don't really even need to rely on resorts?

Cristo is good and very important if you have a lot of relics or going to loose versus relics but is challenging to build on higher levels as the AI targets it.
Eiffel tower is far better than cristo for seaside resorts becase you can create a lot more of them and it tends not to be targeted.
No other wonder is worth the weight in production for a CV in my opinion unless you have time for the fun of doing it.
You definately need neither to win a CV.
You are correct in what you say @sa1vy the value of arch museums with computers and cultural heritage is plenty enough to win and you can get resorts without either. Naturally less cities = more need
 
So no wonders at all? Does the production cost of Cristo Redentor and/or Eiffel Tower outweigh other things you can do with the production, like projects or more cities? Or do you win so quickly because of great works that you don't really even need to rely on resorts?
I ignore religion, so at most, I have 1 relic (unless I am Kongo). I suppose as Kongo, if I get 5 relics via Kandy or martyrdom or trade I should probably chop Cristo. Relics can also be a big part of a Russia win, though Jesuit Education is probably better than triple relics. I haven't played a Kongo game in a while.

I don't go for Eiffel, because I plan on winning before I can research Steel. There is some time post-computers for research, but not enough time to go from Machinery/Printing all the way to Steel. If you are playing a long game (say deity with some culturally-inclined opponents), it absolutely makes sense to better prioritize Eiffel and Cristo.

I do build whatever resorts are available based on where I settled. I will also plant some trees as needed to bump those +3 appeal tiles to +4 to squeeze out some extra resorts. I haven't started removing mines to boost appeal, but I suppose I should. Another resort is better than a mine by the time you hit radio.

If I'm playing China, certain early wonders are nice to have and easily obtainable.

If I'm playing a France or China short game (described in Victoria's culture thread), wonders are essential.

Otherwise, it's no wonders at all unless an ancient era wonder is still available late and the city has already built a broadcast center.

In space games, I am perfectly willing to chop (and harvest resources) to get space projects done. For some reason, I am reluctant to chop to build archaeologists faster, to finish broadcast centers, or to build a wonder. I should fix this problem as it is fairly obvious that late game chopping results in faster wins.
 
Interesting strategy! Didn't quite hit 250, partly due to low production, partly because I was playing Kongo (inland sea, prince) and probably should have gone for more art museums given the GA points ability (built 3 art museums out of 10 cities, could have filled twice that given the unused GAs I had kicking around). Maybe should have built a couple more science buildings in the late game too, I spent a little time twiddling my thumbs and waiting for computers. I may try it again with England too. Thanks!
 
Kongo is a weird one, you get loads of GPP, way too many. Also when I have played Kongo I do not really get that typical Kongo growth that gives high science. It certainly can be a case of waiting for computers after the patch because one AI manages to culture trow to a degree properly.
 
Kongo is a weird one, you get loads of GPP, way too many. Also when I have played Kongo I do not really get that typical Kongo growth that gives high science. It certainly can be a case of waiting for computers after the patch because one AI manages to culture trow to a degree properly.

It was my first Kongo play and I hadn't done a serious archaeology game yet, so i didn't fully grok the issues with combining the two till I started the game. it was a good learning experience--especially that hammers still matter even in a culture game, even if you ARE well over 500 GPT by turn 200. Was nice not having to seriously mess with religion though, even if I didn't really go down the relic road. I'm also debating replaying the game from my turn zero save and seeing if art museums would have gotten me to a faster win.
 
I do have a question actually, do most of you guys, just intentionally disregard what the AI civs say when they ask you to lmove your archaeologists out of their lands. Or do you take a diplomatic route and just take like 1 and then promoise not to send your archaeologists there anymore
 
I do have a question actually, do most of you guys, just intentionally disregard what the AI civs say when they ask you to lmove your archaeologists out of their lands. Or do you take a diplomatic route and just take like 1 and then promoise not to send your archaeologists there anymore

You can send a bunch, take all the artifacts and promise to never send them there. You won't need to send them there again anyway.

But the penalty modifier is cumulative with each artifact, so depending on the number, you may well get some -15 modifier for that
 
Its about the situation. If the civ is strong and on a knifes edge with me, I may not even take 1.
To be honest, I now often just go for shipwrecks rather than go to the effort of making friends, opening borders then annoying the hell out of people. Just remember each artifact may be considered the same price as a seaside resort. Any good cultural victory now includes me planning my resorts very early. They just rock.
 
But without Open Borders how are you going to snatch that one artifact that lays in the only tile the AI's cultural borders didn't get? :D
 
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