VD: Vanilla Demigod

[Gato Loco]

First the bad news. I took so long deliberating and taking notes that I only played one turn today. Now the good news:

150 BC – Preflight:
We’re in a precarious position, but stopping the war now means giving up Quiringua for the time being. I’ll have to check first to see if we can continue the war. If the onslaught is almost over we could get some breathing room. First I’ll counterattack the troops in our territory and see how that goes:

Uaxactun horseman attacks redlined horse – wins w/o injury, goes E
Swordsman near Salzburg – N,attacks jav to east, wins without injury
Horse near Uaxactun – SW,SW,attack Jav S, wins redlined
Horse near Uaxactun – SW,SW,attack Jav S, wins with 1 damage
Sword near Uaxactun – W,W,attack MDI NW, wins redlined
Cologne elite archer attacks jav in swamp, dies, jav is vet with 2 hp left.
Sword near Cuello – attacks jav north, flawless win, promotes to elite.
Sword near Cuello – attacks jav north, wins redlined.
Archer near Cuello – N to defend redlined sword.
Spear near Uaxactun – NW to defend redlined sword.
Uaxctun horses - E,SE to hill overlooking Quiringua
Uaxctun warrior – W,W,W to defend Cologne
Redlined horse – E to safety
¾ horse – W to safety in mountain

Since we’re in need of some luck, I’ll roll the dice, hold on a turn, and try to take Quiringua with the 4 veteran horsemen. It’s a long shod, but we need a lucky break, and the AI does tend to neglect outlying, unconnected cities.

MA3 – into Uaxactun as MP
Worker near Bermen – road
3 Workers near Bonn – road
Sword near Bonn – NE,E,N
Curr 3 – S,W
Catapult – N,N,N
RG2 – irrigate
Worker near Hanover cut forest, switch Hanover to harbor to receive the cutting bonus.
Worker A – NW,NW,NW to help with mountain road.
Other workers near Hamburg – N,N,N, we ‘ll need manpower to clear the Cologne swamp.
Hamburg Sword – NE,N,N
Sword near Konigsburg – NE,N,N


Give Munich a scientist, switch build to archer for MP. Munich is the only unhappy city, so the Lux slider isn’t warranted yet.
MM Leipzig from forest to irr. Plains so it can grow. Sword still due in 3.
MM Konigsberg desert to FP. It’ll groe in 3, then we can go for shields.

IBT - We lose an archer, a spearman, and a swordsman. They don’t attack Cologne.
Berlin Sword -> Sword
Frankfurt horse -> Horse
Heidelburg Harbor -> worker (to road gems)

130 BC - Quiringua Assault:
Horse 1 – Kills a spear, takes 2 dmg, promotes
Horse 2 – Does 1 damage to a spear, retreats, spear still on top.
Horse 3 – Takes 1 dng, kills wounded spear
Horse 4 – Takes 2 damage, kills horseman, promotes, captures city!

Ok, now I was tempted to raze Quiringua because of the flip risk. However, there is an Incan settler to the SW who would probably steal the spot before we could settle it. So I kept it. It has 5 pop, all resistors. I’ll load in lots of troops to fight resistance and try to starve/whip it down.

Smokey the Bear will now get us to the middle ages for peace, all our gold, and 6 gpt. Tomorrow I'll probably wait another turn to make peace, hoping to kill a few more units and drive down the price further. The longer the Maya stay at war, the more of their golden age they waste on units. The only trick is to end the war before those units reach us. What really worries me is the flipability of Quiringua. If it flips while we're at peace, we can't get it back. If we stay at war, we can park troops next to it to keep it in our hands. I'll try to whip a library.

 

[floydmcw]

Well done. The flip risk can't be that bad; when you whip a library you'll kill two birds, er Mayans, with one stone.

I would like to humbly suggest that those javs won't be so harmless if they pillage our road.

 

[Gato Loco]

Continued:

Cat near Cuello – N,N, bombards jav for 1 hp
Horse S,S of Cologne, attack wounded jav E, dies
Sword S,S of Cologne, attacdk wounded Jav, wins

Peace with Maya + 397 gold + 3 gpt in exchange for currency, construction, and philosophy. We get Monotheism (Lutheranism?) for free. Unfortunately, all three neighbors have it. If we’d gotten engineering we’d have made off like bandits. I research Monarchy at 40% because we really need a government change. I also switch several builds to economic buildings.

Three horsemen outside Quiringua go inside and fortify.
Worker in Quiringua goes W,W
Curr 3 – S,W
Switch Berlin to Harbor. We need one somewhere, and Berlin is using most of its land.
Switch Leipzig to Market. We need economic infrastructure.
Switch Nuremburg to spear for MP
Switch Frankfurt to harbor. It looks like a good “fishing” spot to help our economy.
Berlin sword – NE,NE,NE
Worker A – Road
Frankfurt Horse – SE,SE,SE,E,N,N
Workers near Konigsberg – NE,NE,N
Sword near Konigsberg – NE,N,N
Sword near Salzburg – NE,N,N
Sword near Salzburg – N,N,N
Sword near Nasca – N
Sword near Cuello – NE
Cologne Warrior – E,E,E MP for Uaxctun
Redlined horse – NE,NE into Uaxcutun
Uaxactun warrior and 5 workers – SE

IBT – 4 Quiringua resisters quelled, civil disorder, hire 4 scientists to starve the city.

110 BC - Workers near Uaxactun build a road. One leftover goes NW,W and starts clearing a swamp. Grasslands will make the cities productive and give a better kill zone.

Now that we have wines connected, time to check happiness. Lux turned down to 20%. I also get to put a couple scientists back to work.
Leipzig MM to get +2 food. We want it at size 7 before we go to monarchy.
Switch Konigsberg to courthouse. It’s way too corrupt.
Curr 3 – S,SW
Cat and 2 swords near Cuello – NE,N
Redlined sword – N,NE,NE
Warrior near Uaxacutun – E,E,fort. We’ll need MP when yhose horses move on.
3 Workers on hill – road
Worker – SE,irrigate near Stuggart
Sword Near Leipzig – NE,NE,N
Horse near Bonn moves to S of Cuello
Bremen switch to Harbor. That’s what it needs.
3 workers near Bonn – E,E,N
Workers in Salzburg – N,N,N
Swordsman near Salzburg – N,N,N
Sword near Cuello – N,N,NE
Other Sword near Cuello – N
Horse and warrior fortify in Uaxacutun.

IBT - Quiringua ends resistance, starves to size 4
Munich Archer -> Worker
Jav moves onto mountain near Uaxactun. Sneak attack?
Zulu and Inca building Knights Templar

90 BC – Whip Quiringua library (2 pop), hire 2 ent to starve down to 1
Redlined Sword near Uaxactun – E, fort
Elite Sword near Cologne – N,E,E
Sword near Cologne – N,E,fort
Cat near Cologne – N,W,fort
Sword on road – N,N,W to Cologne
Sword near Cuello – NE,N,N
Sword off road – NW
Cuello workers – N,NE,stop under sword for protection from sneak attack
Horse near Cuello goes to Cologne
Worker near Bremen – SW,S,S
3 workers near Salzburg – N,mine
Sword near Bonn – N,N,N
2 workers near Stuggart – W,W
worker near Stuggart – E
4 workers near Uaxactun – NW,W,clear swamp
Curragh 3 – SE,S
Archer fortifies in Munich
Turn Sci to 50%

IBT - A line of Javs is tryiong to bet through our choke. They aren’t sneak attacking yet.
Berlin Harbor -> Marketplace
Hamburg Settler -> Sword
Quiringua starves to pop 1, builds library -> Courthouse
Nuremburg Spear -> Harbor

70 BC - 2 workers near Munich – irrigate
Spear in Nuremburg – fortify as MP
Curr3 – E,S
Cologne horse – fort
Cologne sword – N to act as lookout
Uaxactun elite sword – NW onto mountain to block javs
Sword near Cuello – N,N,N
2 workers near Cuello – N,N,clear swamp
Sword near Cologne – NE,fort to block javs
Sword near Bonn – NE,NE,E
Worker near Bonn – S,S,S
Hamburg Settler (Hamburgers) – NE,N,N
Settlers on hill near Hannover – NE
Settler near Hannover – irrigate
MM Hannover from fish to hill for faster harbor.
Worker near Stuggart – road

IBT - Mayan units try to go around out blockade
Munich worker -> Library. We need more culture

50 BC - Hamburgers – NE,N,N
Curragh 3 – SE,S
Elite Sword Fort on mountain near Uaxactun
Sword near Cologne – NE
Cologne Spear – N
Lone sword in swamp – fort
Worker near Cuello – E
Sword near Salzburg – N,N,N
3 workers near Bermen – NE,N,N
Workers near Leibzig – SE,S
Other worker on plains – irrigate
Munich worker – E,cut forest
Workers near Hannover – irrigate, one starts road

IBT - Stuggart Galley -> Harbor
MM Stuggart for +2 food
Wait! Stuggart has a settler?

30 BC - Stuggart Settler enters galley, galley moves E,N,N
Switch Leibzig to FP. Why didn’t I realize this earlier?
2 Hannover workers finish the road, one boards the galley, one moves SE
Curr 3 – E,E
Spearman and sword near Cologne fortify
Sword near Cuello – NE,N,N
Workers near Munich road and mine
3 workers in Cuello – N,NE,N
Worker near Cuello – road

IBT - Quiringua’s borders expand. It is now free of cultural overlap.

10 BC - Set Sci to 40% L
5 workers near Uaxactun move W,W,N to mountain north of Cologne.
Hamburgers – NE,N,NE
Galley – SE,S,stop
Curragh 3 – E,S
Sword near Cologne – W,NW
RG1,3,and companion – N,clear swamp
Worker near Stuggart – N
Worker near Hannover – cut forest
Workers near Hannover – S

IBT – Mayan units veer off, declining to attack a fortified sword in the mountains.
Hannover Harbor -> Courthouse
Inca builsing Sistine Chapel

10 AD - Workers on mountain near Cologne start fortress. Yes, forts aren’t that useful, but this looks like a good place for one to minimize the risk of Maya occupying the mountains above Cologne
Hamburgers – NW,W,SW
Workers near Munich build road
Workers near Munich – W,W,W
Workers near Stuggart – Cut forest
Worker near Hannover – Cut forest
Galley – E,E,E, disembark worker into Heidelberg
Curr 3 – E,E

IBT - Frankfurt Harbor -> Sword
MM Frankfurt onto water for +1 trade

30 AD - RG1 – N
4 other workers near Cologne – NE,N
Hamburgers – E,E,E
Workers near Hamburg – SW,S
Workers near Berlin – NW,cut (looking for BG)
Worker near Munich – Mine
Galley – N,N,N,disembark settler to east
Heidelberg worker – S
Curr 3 – E,S
Scientist in Hannover, switch production to MP archer
MM Berlin, Leipzig, Hannover so Leipzig won’t riot

IBT - Cologne Harbor -> Barracks (Cheap, and units gotta heal somewhere.)
Inca get Sun Tzu. Maya get Knights Templar. Oops.

50 AD - Lux back to 30% for Belin and Konigsburg
3 Workers near Munich mine
Workers near Stuggart and Hannover irrigate
RG1 – road
Workers near Uaxactun – build fortress
Hamburgers – SE,S, I’ll leave the final decision to somebody else.
Worker near Heidelberg – road
Curragh 3 – E,S
Rogue Settler – NE
Galley – W,W,W

Notes - I planned to found new cities where indicated on the map. The one near Piedas Negras is meant to build a library, stealing a tile from its neighbor and allowing swords to rush the city the same turn we declare war. The other one is just meant as a good city space sometime in the future once we connect it and get monarchy. All the resources on the continent are taken, so we‘ve got to take what we can get.
-The galley should shuttle a couple defenders for the new city, then try to find the route the Zulu came over on. It’ll be a suicide route for us, since they only got across with the lighthouse. I should have built more galleys, but there are so many things that need building. Perhaps the Munich library can be switched.
-What to do about the Knights Templar? Do we dare start another war? Would we rather ally with the Maya against the Inca this time (if possible) rather than face a bunch of crusaders? I actually like the idea of hitting the Inca becasue they're so far away and can't defend their colonies, as long as we can make sure the Maya don't join in on the wrong side. Maybe we should try trading something with the Maya to reduce the change of their attacking. But what? Would gifting them a couple gpt at the start of the war make it harder for the Inca to bribe them?
-Please maintain the wall of swords. As long as it holds no advanced units can reinforce the Mayan colonies, leaving them vulnerable. At war, retreat to the mountains and splat anything that tries to pass. The ZOC from the forts might help once they’re completed.
-Be sure not to let the Maya have a road to their colonies. Pillage roads in our territory if necessary to cut them off.
-Eventually I suggest that we found a sacrificial city on the bananas that lie between us and the Maya. Then road the jungle to the north, and we can make a desperate rush for the Mayan iron to knock it out at the start of a future war. A knight or two would be ideal for this if we ever get them. The city could then be abandoned if necessary. I know it looks like a flip risk, but with a library, it wouldn’t have too much border overlap.
-I’ve started a number of civilian builds. Yes, this could be unwise, but we really need to keep up our economy if we aren’t going to be at constant war. That market in Berlin has to be a good idea at least. Aqueducts might be a good idea soon in certain cities. In any case, feel free to cancel my build orders. Old builder habits die hard.
-I’ve started the FP in Leipzig. I’m not quite clear on the Vanilla vs. Conquests corruption models, but I think that the first priority is to get the FP built anywhere you can to increase our OCN. The palace could always be moved later if convenient.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I got it, thanks for the detailed notes you gave. I assume we will be buying techs from now on, and not researching them?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Turn 0 - 50 AD
Found Dortmund in place. Start a library for cheap culture.
Rush a temple in Uaxactun. It cost 1 population, but was under heavy cultural pressure.

IBT: Hamburg: Swordsman -> Swordsman
Heidelburg: Worker -> Worker
Uaxactun: Library -> Harbor
Bonn: Spear -> Harbor

Turn 1 - 70 AD
A Mayan city (Pierdas Negras) expanded borders, so we can't settle the second city there, so I move the settler to a better location.

IBT: Berlin: Market -> Sword

Turn 2 - 90 AD
Found Brandenburg, production to Library.
Set out a suicide curragh.

IBT: Munich: Library -> Aqueduct
Nuremburg: Horse -> Sword
Hannover: Archer -> Archer
Our curragh dies.

Turn 3 - 110 AD
Nothing.

Turn 4 - 130 AD
Move units to swordsmen wall.

IBT: Berlin: Sword -> Sword

Turn 5 - 150 AD
Galleys continues east around our coast to get to suicide spot.

IBT: Frankfurt: Sword -> Sword

Turn 6 - 170 AD
We connect the Gems, and turn down luxury to 20%, Monarchy in 4.

IBT: Hamburg: Sword -> Sword

Turn 7 - 190 AD
Luxury back to 30% as 2 important cities grow.

Turn 8 - 210 AD
Monarchy is in 1, -23 gpt of our 47 gold.

IBT: Mayans and Zulu are at war!
We get Monarchy and revolt. 9 turn Anarchy.

Turn 9 - 230 AD
Nothing.

Notes: We have 7 turns of anarchy left. Then, I would try to get Feudalism, upgrade our swords, and attack the Mayans. The galley is close to the coast in the east for a suicide run.

 

[plarq]

9 turn Anarchy

The worse RNG case I've seen with non-religious civs.We can stop research from now but i like LK's idea on self research in higher level.The trading price is bloody,stinky,ridiculous high for human players and constant demands make money dangerous.

 

[floydmcw]

I've never seen anything longer than 7.

Y'all should check your .ini file for a line like

PleaseF*ckMeRepeatedly=1

Once we get the gems city hooked up things won't be so bad. Of course the next hurdle is whether or not we have saltpeter ...

 

[Gato Loco]

A few things to consider:

-Once those workers finish roading the swamp, the Maya will have access to the horses near Piedas Negras, probably letting them build knights. They will also be able to build pikes/MDI in P-N. Do we really want to do this? We don't want to trade with the Maya becasue we're going to attack them, and we can't trade with the Inca because the route will break as soon as we declare on the Maya.

-A couple cities are going to starve before the Anarchy ends. Just let them go into civil disorder a few times to save food.

-The Maya are in Feudalism. This means that a quick strike at a bunch of units at the start of the war could run up their war weariness. Pillaging horsemen are also an option. It also means that if we park a stack outside a large city and start killing things, they'll probably kill off a bunch of pop rushing a defender.

 

[floydmcw]

Should we give the next guy (plarq, I think) some extra turns? Say 15 instead of 10? Playing 10 turns of which 7 are anarchy doesn't sound like much fun.

 

[floydmcw]

No word from plarq for three days. Tim, can you take over?

 

[TimBentley]

I won't play until this evening, so if he doesn't respond before then, I'll play.

 

[plarq]

I'll take this,sorry team,I didn't notice

 

[plarq]

Preturn:Seems bad,we cannot keep Frankfurt size 6 unless rioting.Anarchy in 7t.We have average military against Inca,figure that(Inca is way advanced,so we can simply extort them.)
Check shows Mayans and Zulus have Knights(Mayans have its own horse),Incans only got horses.Imagine,but I cannot prevent Incans buying Mayans into a war.
Turn 1:Nothing,galley east.
IBT:Maya want to expand peace,ok.Even I set "always negotiate deals" OFF.Quirigua Deposes,lose 2 horses 1 warrior.Bad RNG luck!Now Dortmund is in danger of flips.Whole nation riots.
Turn 2:Only Inca is target that we can soften.
IBT:Zulu ships cross Ocean!Incans start Leo's(That late?).
Turn 3:Zulus doesn't have Magnetism(Galley move 4).Gem online.I was tempted to sell only iron to Inca,take Theology,and research PP in min,do we?
Zulu doesn't have Theology,which is a chance for a 2fer1.

 

[plarq]

AFAIK,Incans have Astronomy(Copernius),so trade route cannot be cut off easily by Mayans.And long riot will destroy city improvements,shall we starve down Berlin and Frankfurt a bit?

 

[floydmcw]

Quirigua Deposes,lose 2 horses 1 warrior.Bad RNG luck!Now Dortmund is in danger of flips.

With one more unit would we have been safe from flips (4 x the population of Quiringa)?

Or is it more complicated than that?

 

[plarq]

Mapstat shows needed garrison is 70+,imagine.

 

[handy900]

Interesting choice of acronym there.

lurker's comment:

 

[floydmcw]

Mapstat shows needed garrison is 70+,imagine.

Maybe not such a bad RNG result then.

To answer your question about anarchy, yes, we had planned to starve cities occasionally to prevent 9-turn anarchy.

 

[plarq]

OK,I'll trade iron to Inca to fill the tech hole.
Starve berlin and Frankfurt,we have extra workers.

 

[plarq]

Incans:I buy Theology,19g and a ROP by our iron.The RoP is a shield against DoW.He turns Polite.Turns out that Maya lacks Education.Theology and 3g get us Engineering from Zulu.Left us a handy sum of 100g.Start min run on Printing Press.Note:we have extra gems,and Mayans are trading theirs to Incans,so it'll be a potential gem trade with Inca or Zulu sometime in the future.
For the Saltpeter thing,I wonder if they actually researched Gunpowder?
IBT:Zulu and Maya sails.Frankfurt reduced in size.
Turn 4:300AD,Riot all cities using all extra citizen as scientists,PP in 15t. Remembering that rioting city cannot be adding workers(the "Calcutta Blackhole" exploit which is banned in GOTM recently).I forget the plan of "more rioters".
Suicidal Galley Reach "the other" continent,we see Ottoman,he's still ancient,lack Currency!Wow!I sell Currency to him for 18g,he won't give up Republic.As I prayed many times,he got Feudalism as freebie and I use two tech to obtain it.
From F3,we see Mayans fought Zulu before,Zulu fought American and Japan before.
IBT: Whole nation riot.Zulu archer approach Heidelberg,Mayans start Leo's(That late?)
Turn 5:Nothing but rioting.
IBT: Finally...I'd rather use Monarchy,I don't want to see another 9 turn Anarchy,I'm scared.But I'm tempted to use Feudalism,the 5 unit support is we needed most.