VD: Vanilla Demigod

[Ginger_Ale]

Turn 0 - 1000 BC
Change Cologne (Iron city) from a Temple to Barracks -> this city is 3 tiles from an Incan, so we don't want this to be under cultural pressure, plus the barracks will have no use in this city of high corruption.
Change Konigsberg from a Granary to a Settler in 1, timed with the growth. This city is food plentyful, so a granary at 2 spt uses up precious shields.

IBT: Mayans demand 21 gold, we cave.
Konigsberg: Settler -> Settler

Turn 1 - 975 BC
Micromanage Berlin to time the settler with growth, at not cost to shields or gold.

IBT: Berlin: Settler -> Settler

Turn 2 - 950 BC
Turn luxury tax down to 10%.

IBT: Munich: Barracks -> Archer

Turn 3 - 925 BC
Send out a suicide curragh.

IBT: Leipzig: Archer -> Horse

Turn 4 - 900 BC
Curragh survives another turn and moves 2 more West.

Turn 5 - 875 BC
Buy Literature from the Incans for 47 gold (we had 2 turns left).
Curragh moves 2 more west. Science to Code of Laws due in 11.

IBT: Hamburg: Archer -> Archer

Turn 6 - 850 BC
Curragh survives yet another turn! It ends its turn 2 tiles away from land (we can spot an orange border). F10 tells us it's the Ottomans. *crosses fingers to survive 1 more turn*
Have to put luxury tax to 20% as Berlin grew.

IBT: Berlin: Settler -> Library

Turn 7 - 825 BC
Our curragh died.
Stuttgart is founded.

Turn 8 - 800 BC
Inca learned Code of Laws (Maya still don't know it).

Turn 9 - 775 BC
IBT: Nuremberg: Barracks -> Warrior (for cheap MP).

Turn 10 - 750 BC
Notes:
> Settler is in place to found a new city (fishing village once we get Map Making + Harbors).
> Northern curragh will try another suicide mission. The chances of surviving is 1/2 ^ 4, or 1 in 16. We were close last time.
> Spear in the middle of the desert is heading towards Cologne for defense.
> The great government debate: should we try Feudalism? I've never tried it, but since our cities won't be big in size, Republic will kill us with unit support, and Monarchy won't be good either. I'm fine with doing any government, but WE NEED TO GO TO WAR ASAP.

 

[floydmcw]

PS: We can sell to the Incans for gpt even if they have the great library.

Literature is a prerequisite for building the Great Library.

 

[floydmcw]

I jumped to your first post from an email notification and didn't see your turns. Don't mind me, I have the flu and am quite groggy.

Too bad about that curragh. Maybe we should probe some other crossing rather than try for the 1/16 shot?

 

[Gato Loco]

Feudalism? Actually, this may be one of those situations where it's actually a good idea. What I don't like about feudalism is the war weariness without a commerce bonus, as it becomes harder to deal with the unhappiness by raising luxuries. That and the pop-rush. Anyway, I've been thinking about battle plans and I noticed something:



If we occupy both of the mountains indicated we have a kill zone spanning the entire border. I think it's worth getting a barracks in Cologne and upgrading some warriors for swordsmen to park on those mountains. Assuming we're still going to use horses, they should be able to sweep up the three cities in our target area, with archers or somesuch taking that last one. Hopefully the AI will have neglected those outlying colonies like it usually does.

In the longer term, we've got to think about the Incas. They're very advanced, probably as the result of a golden age. Once we beat up the Mayans, I think we should then bury the hatchet and eventually ally with the Maya and use them as a buffer zome between us and the Inca. This means honorable warmongering. No razing, no capturing cities we don't intend to keep, and of course no sneak attacks.

In any case, we need money, for upgrading or for an alliance. Is it time to lower science? We also need horsemen more than anything else.

 

[plarq]

I'm up now.Possibly play later.

 

[plarq]

Preturn:I change all temples to libraries.We're SCI,right,library is cheaper and more cultural.Whip Library in Heidelburg.Change Nuremburg Taxman to a Scientist.
IBT:Maya boots us,those Mayan Settler pair gone mad through the swamp,hell with IND trait.Leipzig Horse->Warrior,Heidelburg Library->Barracks
Turn 1,730BC,build Bonn on spot.Start Granary(can be changed anytime)Chop Frankfurt for Barracks.
IBT:3 Mayan Settler pair heads east,into Uxact__ city,Munich Archer->Archer,
Turn 2,710BC,nothing.
IBT:Berlin Lib->Archer
Turn 3,690BC,Mayan learned Philosophy.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 4,670BC,turn down science,CoL next turn.
IBT:CoL->Map Making.Berlin Curragh->Horse.Nuremburg Warrior->Warrior,Bremen Warrior->Warrior.Kyoto SoZ,Veli MoM,we're really backwards.
Turn 5,650BC,Trade CoL to Mayans for Math +9g,it looks both MesoAmericans lacks Currency to MA.
IBT:Konigberg Settler->Settler,Hamburg Horse->Horse
Turn 6:630BC,Incans start colonalize islands.My Curragh follows.
IBT:Frankfurt riots.Stuggart worker->worker
Turn 7:610BC,nothing new.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 8:590BC,Bonn hired Scientist.Build Austrian Salzburg near Bremen,hope Mozart will join us.
IBT:Frankfurt Barracks->Archer,Munich Archer->Archer,lose Curragh.
Turn 9:570BC,Nothing,but I'm confused if we should attack Maya now or not.
Stop here,next player can play 11t.
Notice:Road Forest in NW Berlin,and make 10spt out of Berlin.
We can fight either Maya or Inca,whack tech out of them.
Are horses enough?I don't see if we have money to upgrade warrior to swords(If we save money,AI will demand them away.)
Pop rush Library in Cologne.
Curraghs,more Curraghs,we can build curragh in Berlin,since shields will be wasted anyway.

 

[TimBentley]

Got it.

 

[TimBentley]

570(0)-do some MM, switch reg warrior builds
whip library in Cologne

IBT-Nuremberg warrior->horse
Cologne library->rax (future harbor)
Hannover worker->worker

550(1)-zzz

IBT-Berlin riots due to mismicromanagement
Bonn worker->worker

530(2)-zzz

IBT-Leipzig horse->horse
Hamburg horse->horse

510(3)-zzz

IBT-Berlin horse->settler

490(4)-lux to 30%

IBT-learn map making, start currency at min (for now, at least)

470(5)-zzz

IBT-Bremen worker->library

450(6)-zzz

IBT-Berlin settler->horse
Konigsberg worker->worker

430(7)-Declare on Maya, didn't realize we have no embassy with Inca
kill two spears, warrior to capture Uaxactun

IBT-Maya lose a warrior
Leipzig horse->horse

410(8)-lose three archers to a single spear before a horse kills it, spear and jav taken out without too much trouble capturing Cuello
Build embassy in Cuzco, no reasonable MA deal


IBT-Hamburg horse->horse
Salzburg worker->worker
Inca start Sun Tzu's

390(9)-kill some warriors

IBT-Maya lose three warriors
Frankfurt galley->horse
Munich horse->horse
Chichen Itza builds the Great Library

370(10)-kill a warrior

IBT-Horse retreats, then jav kills it
Berlin horse->horse
moving MP caused Munich to riot
Hannover worker->worker
Inca start Sun Tzu's

350(11)-Kill a warrior

Notes: Change the build in Uaxactun, obviously
Settler is waiting for galley to settle across water
Send the galley to other continent

 

[Gato Loco]

Good start to the war. With the Great Library in Mayan hands, we have a potential tech punching bag on our hands. I'd try, if at all possible, to take out their iron and then just keep bashing on them, making peace for tech when they offer it, then booting units until they redeclare. And of course as long as we can keep their colonies separate form their core they're fair game no matter how advanced the Maya are. Of course there's also the all-out attempt to capture Chichen Itza, but I bet that's a pipe dream. I'll do more thinking when I have time to look in detail at the save.

p.s. Will somebody please pillage that road through the swamp?

 

[floydmcw]

Got the save, will play today.

Note that the Mayans are in a GA, so we may have our hands full.

 

[floydmcw]

Okay, I loaded and inspected the save and have some questions for group discussion before I play my turns.

1. I assume the goal is to take Mayan cities in the southeast. Quiringa, the next city, would give us wines. However some of these cities are fairly large, size 5 or 6, so we would run into flip problems.

I plan to take Quiringa with 8-10 units and sit on it until it's starved down.

2. I'd like to get an alliance with the Inca, but ouch -- 24 per turn! We'd best hope they are just as reluctant to join with the Mayans against us .

 

[Gato Loco]

Yeah, 24 per turn is too much. I'd suggest razing/resettling the bigger Mayan cities, but that would be a bad idea if we ever plan to ally with the Maya in the future and want to avoid making them too terribly mad. With the Maya golden age in progress, maybe the best thing would be to starve/tax Quiringa and sit tight at our border, absorbing the Mayan GA onslaught accross the swamps while perhaps sending a pillaging expedition into their territory. That iron is temptingly close, and it looks like their only source. Our best shot at neutralizing their tech lead is to deny them access to their fancy middle age units.

Finally, what are our golden age plans? If we eventually capture the great library (years from now, of course), that's half our golden age right there. Do you think we'll ever have a shot at Leonardo or Sun Tzu? Or should we wait for panzers?

Fianlly, I'm starting to regret that we didn't go for monarchy. Is republic really worth all these years in despotism?

 

[floydmcw]

A frustrating set of turns; I was hamstrung by a lack of defensive units and our strategic position is poor.

Change some builds to spears, to cut down on horse losses. Check all cities.
Pillage the northernmost swamp road with a horse, who may well die as he pulls up next to two jav throwers.

IBT: Jav attacks horse, who does not retreat and dies.

330: Liepzig horse -> horse. Koenigs worker -> catapult. Bonn worker -> spear. That's enough workers for awhile.

Move workers onto swamp to hook up Cologne.

Is this settler really going to wait 15 turns for a galley? I guess there's not much else to do. Frustrating that Stuttgart would be 3x as productive with a single MP, but we can't really spare it.

I switch Stutt to an archer; that will provide an MP, a bonus military unit, and we'll still get a galley in 15 turns total.

No fighting this turn. Let the Mayans come to me.

Rename some units; it's difficult to try to see what I have in a city and to parse stuff like "Sneaky."

IBT: More mayan javs move up.

310: Berlin spear -> horse. Hamburg spear -> horse.

Maya are building Sun Tzu, in case you were in the mood for good news.

Lose a horse popping the jav next to Uaxac. Lose an elite and a vet, but kill three javs
next to Uaxac's mountain (a vet promotes).

IBT: More Mayans comin' down.

290: Frankfurt warrior (for MP) -> horse (gained a shield/turn). Cuello riots (oops).

Horse pops a jav and runs.

IBT: Horse comes out of Quiringa and we're lucky to win. Other Mayas from the north do not come south; they head west.

Inca blackmails 28! Oh, yes sir! Please, may I have another!

270: Cologne is roaded and we have iron! I switch all horse builds to swords.

IBT: Mayans might be gathering for assault on Cologne. They're two squares away.

250: Berlin, Liepzig, Nuremburg all produce swords. Bremen warrior (MP) -> spear.

IBT: Mayans descend on swamp next to Cologne. Fine with me if they want to attack our hill city. A horse comes out of Quir and, losing against a warrior, backs off.

230: Stuttgart archer -> galley.

Bring the elite archer and a second spear into Cologne and sit tight. Splat the redlined Mayan horse.
The leading sword is across the river at Salzburg.

IBT: Two Mayan attacks cannot damage the spear, who promotes! However two more Mayans move south along the mountains.

The Incans choose this time to boot me.

210: Hannover riots (damn it, I checked F1 before ending the turn). It's got a cheap MP on the way.

IBT: A reg horse kills our elite horse. :-( Also, a Mayan MI shows up.

Sight the Zulu, who land a settler to the south of the gems city.

190: Three swords. Cuello worker -> lib.

Zulu appear to be up all techs and have ~12 cities.

IBT: Lots more movement. Are now six javs on mountains south of Cologne.

170: Liepzig produces a sword, Koenigsburg a catapult.

I'm not attacking javs in the mountains. I set up a sword block on the mountain NW of Cuello.

IBT: Mayan MI kills the elite spear. :-( He's wounded, so we may want to splat him.

The galley sinks.

150: I leave the 120th turn to the next player. Some warnings/suggestions:

- Splat the redlined horse next to Uaxactun.
- You may or may not want to go for the wounded MI in the mountains.
- Splat the javs on the road north of Cuello.
- Either splat the jav next to the worker (there's a sword next to Bremen), or pull the worker back to safety.
- If we're going to attack Quiringa, then take the spear and some other units and road the desert next to the Mayan hill. Then put units on the hill and storm Quiringa. Good luck.

Most important: We can get Philo for free if we make peace, and Constr for 300ish gold and 5ish per turn. That's probably our best option.

The war theater:


The save.

 

[floydmcw]

The next player may also want to upgrade a few warriors, which I completely spaced out on. Not that we have that many warriors to spare -- even at 30% lux we have serious happiness problems.

Are we really going to try for Republic? I can't imagine what our Lux would have to be then. Wouldn't Monarchy and its 3 MP be a better govt?

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I'm fine with Monarchy, since we do have a small (under 7 population per city) empire. Glad to see we met the Zulu ... they probably have an island closeby.

We do need peace asap. MDI vs. Spears is not good.

Roster
floydmcw - just played
Gato Loco - UP!
Ginger_Ale - on deck
TimBentley
plarq

 

[floydmcw]

Yeah, we should be able to get Monarchy for peace; maybe not for free but at a discount.

Oh, one other reminder: When the galley is built to take the settler over by the gems city, put a worker on it so we can road the gems. We have a lot of workers and they're not doing much. The other workers should road those mountains so we can block them next time we're at war with the Maya.

 

[Gato Loco]

Got it. I can't guarantee I'll have time until thursday, but I'll try to get a couple turns in today or tomorrow. I'll try to get monarchy and revolt, as we're getting left in the dust in despotism. Then I'll get some swords together for a future assault on quiringua.

 

[Gato Loco]

Ok, I took a look at the save, and here's what I see:

We can get all required techs for the next age for peace, 355 gold, and 16 gpt. If we do this we should hope that we can start a boot-war soon.

We can get construction and currency for peace, 366 gold and 6 gpt.

We can get monarchy for peace, 366 gold and 7 gpt.

We can get an Inca alliance for 366 gold and 5 gpt

We can't get any gold for peace, as the Maya appear to have none.


So, what are people's thoughts? The Maya are about halfway thriough their GA. If we can get an alliance and hold on a little longer I feel that they will eventually crumble. This will probably result in the Inca taking much of the Mayan homeland and us geting the colonies to the east if we can hold on long enough. Or it could result in us getting whomped during my turns while the GA is still active. Cologne (and our iron) is in serious trouble.

 

[TimBentley]

If you go for peace, I would suggest getting all required techs and seeing what you can do with the free tech.

 

[plarq]

Free tech gambit?Well if we're bankrupt...but war cannot continue.We can't get strong troops to deal with MDI and Pikes.But don't drain our gpt.