VD: Vanilla Demigod

[TimBentley]

1750(0)-The extra shield I got for Konigsberg was corrupted anyways
Send settler north
Send War Delta towards Mayan territory

1725(1)-zzz

1700(2)-found Frankfurt, start on worker
Gamble and war alpha pops barbs
Maya founded city on wines

IBT-warrior survives attack
Zimbabwe builds Oracle

1675(3)-zzz

IBT-Maya start ToA

1650(4)-zzz

IBT-Leipzig rax->warrior
Hamburg worker->rax (feel free to change)

1625(5)-lower science to 90%

IBT-Berlin settler->settler

1600(6)-Can't get alphabet in 2, set science to 70%
I'll send this settler east

IBT-Leipzig warrior->warrior

1575(7)-A bit of a miscalculation last turn; set science to 90%

1550(8)-Not much more to explore, so Tank Killer starts home
Science to 40%

IBT-learn alphabet, start on writing at 80%
Leipzig warrior->warrior

1525(9)-switch Berlin to curragh

IBT-Maya helps by moving warrior out to the north
Berlin curragh->rax
Konigsberg worker->granary (feel free to change), I think maybe it could be a 3-turn worker factory

1500(10)-switch Leipzig to curragh

Notes: switch Berlin to game next turn
I didn't settle yet in case you disagree with the location
You may want to lower science for if Maya demands all gold
Berlin could be a 6-turn warrior-settler factory; at size 4 it would make the warrior in 2 turns at +4fpt, then the settler would be produced in the next 4 turns (+2fpt, +3fpt, +3fpt, +4fpt)

 

[floydmcw]

Got it. Will play tonight.

 

[Gato Loco]

Well, that emply peninsula's a bit of a disappointment. Could it be that we're alone on this whole continent with the Maya? By the way, what does everyone think about the timetable for attacking them? I'm for doing it as soon as is practical. Being agricultural and industrious (and having an AI bonus) means they'll out-build us if we try to go for a land grab.

 

[floydmcw]

1500: I agree with the placement of the settler, and settle it. Munich founded, starts on worker. This gives us six cities. F11 lists us last in population and land area, next to last in GNP and shields. We make $22 per turn and produce 15 shields per turn.

Maya are up three techs (Poly, Iron, Masonry), we are up Alpha. They won't trade us a tech for Alpha, so I leave them be. Following Tim's suggestion I dial down science a notch in case Smoke-Jaguar comes knocking with a bill.

IBT: Berlin expands. We can have horses whenever we want them. I'll send a worker over when one becomes idle.

1475: War Alpha ventures southwest and spots a second gems. Southwest of that is bare tundra. War Delta climbs a mountain and spots a delta -- a rich river delta in flood plains. He will probably be stuck in that little hole of cultural influence for awhile. Tank Killer heads home.

1450: Liepzig pops a curragh and starts a temple, for happiness. (We'll need more curraghs but we may as well let our current two scout in opposite directions and see what happens to them.) Frankfurt worker -> curragh.

Berlin grows and lux must be set to 2.

War Alpha spies a goody hut in the tundra. Tank Killer meets no fewer than seven Mayan warriors. War Delta heads east into Mayan territory.

IBT: Smoke-Jaguar whines about the warrior.

1425: Nothing much. War Alpha creeps up to the goody hut. This frozen peninsula is pretty close to the eastern curragh. A curragh can't cross the gap but a galley could.

1400: The warrior wraps his scarf tightly around his face, strides shivering into the goody hut -- and finds a friendly settler, who wants to "join our despotism." (I've always found that phrasing rather weird. "You're despotic? Well come oppress me then!")

War Delta climbed a mountain next to Calakmul. The edge of Mayan territory is visible to the north.

IBT: Mayans boot Warrior Delta ... back into the interior gap.

Rome builds the Colossus.

1375: Berlin warrior -> settler. The newly built warrior moves east to cover Munich. Berlin has 5 pop so lux to 20. Tank Killer moves south to help hold the tundra city.

1350: Done irrigating the flood plain.

1325: Hamburg rax -> spear. Switch Liepzig to settler as it's about to grow to 4.

Saw someone pink! (Not that there's anything wrong with that.) It's anInca warrior/settler pair. Inca are up Iron, Mason, Poly but will trade Iron for Alpha straight up. They even add their 36 gold. The Inca have nine cities.

Iron's not easy to come by. There's some to the south of the Mayans, and some off in the empty section to our east.

1300: Lots of workers free, but I don't road the horses just yet. We're not ready to build 30-shield units.

IBT: Ottomans build pyramids.

1275: Berlin and Liepzig pop settlers. Lux back down to 10.

Settlers three, where should they be? Feel free to yell at me for making
decisions, but I don't like cooling their heels for two whole turns to let someone else decide what to do with them. I looked at the dot map for guidance and decided on the following:

- Berlin's settler will go next to the horses. This has the potential to be a nice early city, with grassland and forests, and it's near the capital so corruption will be low.

Liepzig's settler will wander north or east of Konigsberg, I'll leave it up to the next player.

The barb settler will squat on hills next to the gems. There's not much to make of that spot but there are whales, the hill offers defense from barbs,
and it's on our side of the coast. This city is called Hiedelberg; it starts a warrior, but that could be a harbor later or worker or whatever someone wants.

(It won't be a worker for awhile, as Hiedel will take 20 turns to grow.)

Change Hamburg to a warrior. Send a worker out past Konigs to work the flood plain; kind of an exposed position but nothing awful happens.

1250: Munich worker -> warrior. Settler reaches destination north of Berlin. I leave the other settler and his escort to the next player, which is a nice symmetry.

Word up for the next player:

- Tank Killer needs to join his brethren in Heidelberg.
- We get Writing in 5 turns and a running a -1 deficit.
- Berlin can alternate warriors and settlers, as Tim suggested. Don't forget to raise lux when Berlin grows to 5.

Some screenshots, starting with our lands:

The eastern lands, and our new city:

And our Meso-American neighbors:

 

[plarq]

My points:We need to grab the flood river N to Heidelberg.Build city towards that direction.An early war with Mayans is great,since he can't get us in 20t given that he's no Iron.Build some horse,raze Quirigua and his expansion will be slowed down.The land seems promising for an early domination.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Ouch, we need to stop the Mayans from expanding ASAP. They have lots of room to expand. Should we also head towards Iron, the most important resource in the game? Otherwise, attacking with Longbows is pretty futile. I would push north with cities in order to block the Mayans, then backfill.

 

[Gato Loco]

I'm up next, but I don't see the save. Also, I'd like people's opinions about researching map making next. I think a few galleys would be very useful for the Mayan war since walking (or riding) all that way would be quite a pain. Plus we can unload right next to their cities and skip the long march through hostile territory.

Edit: Oops, I only see one coastal city we could reach. Anyway, I think we need either galleys or a road. I'll try to grab that iron next to their territory and build a road to it.

 

[floydmcw]

1250 BC

As for strategy, I agree that we should hit the Mayans, but I think we should aim at ravaging their homeland and securing iron. Quiringa isn't of much use to them.

We should go for Literature after Writing. It's a tech that the AI neglects, and we might be able to leverage one tech from each of Maya and Inca.

 

[Gato Loco]

Got it. I'll play tonight. Too bad we aren't industrious, with all the roads we're going to build.

 

[plarq]

I'd like to build some Lib(Not Glib) to boost our research,if we can get GL in Mayan war,we'll rush FP on the golden river N of Heidelberg.

 

[Gato Loco]

Ok, I only got to play half the turns. I'll play the rest tomorrow.

1250 BC – Preflight:
2 Settlers. Western one founds in place, eastern one will found on the iron near the Maya. We need to secure it soon.
Science can go to 70% to avoid a deficit.
Konisberg – ok
Hanberg – ok
Leipzig – switch to warrior. We’re going to get iron. Why have archers?
Munich – Switch to barracks. Why build regular units? I’ll send a vet for MP fro now.
Frankfurt – ok
Berlin - MM forest to plains. The warrior is going to finish next turn so I’ll save the high-shield part of the cycle for next turn.
Heidelberg – Switch to temple. Once TK arrives it’ll have 2 MP and needs a border expansion. The temple is a prebuild for either a harbor or library, either of which is needed to get better food production.
Rename the warrior with the settler Escort
Rename the warrior crouching with two workers Guard? Are there barbs in the area?

Send Escort and his settler NE,N. They are heading for iron before the Maya get it.

IBT – Berlin Warrior (Maya Assault 1) -> Settler, MM back to forest.
Hamburg Warrior (Maya Assault 2) -> Warrior

1225 BC – Settler + Escort north
Worker near Munich – Road
West Settler founds Nuremburg -> Barracks
Warrior Der Leipzig – fortify as MP
Eastern Curragh – S,S
Curragh Der Inca – W,N
War Delta – N, sees another Incan city
Maya Assault 1 – N,NE,E
Maya Assault 2 – N,NE,N (I feel that settler deserves more escort)
Worker on sugar mines

IBT – Inca boots War Delta
Berlin Grows, turn lux to 20%, Sci to 50%

1200 BC – Escort, Settler, and Maya Assault 2 all north
Worker A mines tobacco (a tobacco mine?)
Maya Assault 1 – NE,NE,E
East Curragh SW,S
Curragh Der Inac – NW,N, sees another Inca city
War Delta – N, sees Mayan spice
TK – S

IBT - Leipzig Warrior Der Munich -> Warrior

1175 BC - War Der Munich – E,SE,S
MA2, Settler, Warrior – all north
Frankfurt worker finishes road, builds mine
Eastern Curragh SE,SE
TK – SE
War Delta – E, sees Maya City
Curragh Der Inca – NW,N, sees coast across the sea, too far to reach.
Workers on sugar named Road Gang 1 and 2, W,N,NE. We need an RG3
Guard? Also goes to Hamburg for MP duty.

IBT - Incas complain about Curragh, Maya are sending a settler somewhere…

1150 BC - War Delta – NW
Curragh Der Inca – S
Escort, Settler, MA2 all north
Rename worker on FP Road Gang 3, build road
RG1,2 – NE
Guard? - Fort
Warrior Der Munich – S
Worker near Munich move to Tobacco and help mine.
Eastern Curragh – S,S
TK – SW

IBT - Maya boot War Delta
Research Writing -> Literature
Berlin Settler, but oops, I forgot to MM so Berlin is now out of phase. Many apologies for wasting a turn. I’ll make a spearman instead of a warrior to get it back in phase
Hamburg warrior (Maya Assault 3) -> worker (we need more)
Lux to 0%
Sci to 70%

1125 BC - Maya Assault 3 – N,NE,N, as an escort for the road gang
Warrior der Munich – fortify
Road Gang 1,2 build road, RG3 – NW
Settler, Escort, MA3, all north
TK – fortify
E. Curragh, W,SW
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,W to a small island
New Settler, NE,NE,NE

The results so far:

Before I resume playing tomorrow, I'd like to throw a question out for discussion. How should we trade our new knowledge? The Inca will give either Polytheism + 2gpt or Masonry + 13gpt + 5g. The Maya will give both Masonry and Polytheism for Writing + 43 gold. The both also possess Monarchy. It's time for us to decide which government we're going for. If we want monarchy, we may be able to get it this turn and revolt for a relatively short anarchy. I like the idea of losing the despotism penalty so soon. I don't like the idea of being stuck with monarchy on a large, relatively empty island. If we don't go for monarchy, I plan to get both techs from the Maya and then as much gold as possible form the Inca.

Also I've got another settler. I'm sending him toward the northern end of the desert river if no one minds. Especially if we're going monarch we need more cities for unit support quickly, and we need a high food city for more workers.

 

[Ginger_Ale]

I like the idea of going for Republic.

I would first do the Mayan deal, to be sure we get the two valued techs (which we could sell if we meet another continent), and then we can sell Writing to the Inca for some gpt. 13 gpt is huge - I wonder how they are getting all that.

Where is the settler going exactly? The river on our peninsula, or by the floodplain wheat? If it's on our peninsula, isn't that a bit tight for placement? I would place cities W of the Fish (S of the wheat) on our peninsula and the forest in the very south of our peninsula on plains. That gives our cities at least some room.

 

[floydmcw]

Isn't it going to be a long time before we get iron? We either have to get Mapmaking and build a harbor in the iron city -- and because it has poor food we can't pop-rush it easily, so we either wait 40 turns or hurry in Monarchy/Republic. Or, we build a long long road all the way through the desert and over at least two mountains.

Maybe we should just build a lot of horsemen and go to war with them? We can save the iron-built units for a later war.

 

[floydmcw]

Two more thoughts:

1. Maybe it's not such a bad thing if the Maya stick a settler on the iron. Let them go to all the work of building a far-off city and roading it while we build productive cities that make us military units to capture that Mayan city.

2. El Gato asked if there were barbs around the workers being escorted by a warrior. I don't know, but the time is coming when the barb camps erupt with horsemen. So a warrior on the edge of the cultural border can be nabbed without warning. We may want to send a unit or two into the corners of our peninsula to check for camps. (That's why I had started additional warriors.)

 

[Gato Loco]

@Ginger - The Settler is indeed going for our river. I like tight city placement. But I also like the fish coast square and could just as easily found that one first.

@Floyd - I don't like the idea of using horsemen. They're the least cost-efficient offensive unit of the ancient age, against an enemy who is getting a hefty AI build bonus. Can we really build enough horsemen to kill all the spearmen the Maya are bound to build? Also, if the Maya get the iron city, we've got to attack spearmen fortified on a hill - with horsemen at 30 shields a pop, while the Maya go after us with swordsmen. Plus the jungle and swamp near the Maya will negate the horses' movement advantage and leave them open to counterattack if they try to reach the Maya homeland. We might be better off using archers for this or shipping our horsemen around the jungle with galleys. If we do fight a horse war, I'd say we just aim to take Quiringa and any other cities they build on our side of the jungle, and maybe get a tech for peace. We've got to decide now since if we're going to use archers or horsemen, we should be building them instead of warriors.

After thinking about it, my plan would be to get a barracks in the iron city, set science to 0%, and spend lots of money upgrading the warriors as they pass through. However, this may be considered an exploit, since it's suspiciously like purposely disconnecting a resource for cheap build/upgrades. What rules are we playing by?

Of course we don't have to fight. We could also go for Republic and try to peacefully expand. If we're resigned to not having iron, this may be the best bet.

p.s. From my calculations it'll take about 22 turns for three workers to build a road all the way to the iron. They'll cross one mountain and one swamp.

 

[floydmcw]

Hi Gato, my reply:

@Floyd - I don't like the idea of using horsemen. They're the least cost-efficient offensive unit of the ancient age, against an enemy who is getting a hefty AI build bonus. Can we really build enough horsemen to kill all the spearmen the Maya are bound to build?

Horsemen aren't really so bad because they can retreat when losing, so they survive more than other units.

No matter what unit we choose, I can't see us defeating a far-off power. The best we can do is harass them, steal some workers and settlers, and hack up their infrastructure. Horses are perfect for this.

Also, if the Maya get the iron city, we've got to attack spearmen fortified on a hill - with horsemen at 30 shields a pop, while the Maya go after us with swordsmen. Plus the jungle and swamp near the Maya will negate the horses' movement advantage and leave them open to counterattack if they try to reach the Maya homeland. We might be better off using archers for this or shipping our horsemen around the jungle with galleys.

Yes, it would be tough to get that one specific city, but that's the only city we really want. All our other battles will be fought to our advantage to do the Mayans economic damage. Anyway they haven't built such a city yet.

If we do fight a horse war, I'd say we just aim to take Quiringa and any other cities they build on our side of the jungle, and maybe get a tech for peace. We've got to decide now since if we're going to use archers or horsemen, we should be building them instead of warriors.

Yes, definitely we need to make a decision now. Taking nearby cities for tech could work.

After thinking about it, my plan would be to get a barracks in the iron city, set science to 0%, and spend lots of money upgrading the warriors as they pass through. However, this may be considered an exploit, since it's suspiciously like purposely disconnecting a resource for cheap build/upgrades. What rules are we playing by?

I don't think this is an exploit, as it has disadvantages. Our warrior-producing capability will outstrip our upgrading capability; it costs 60 to turn a warrior into a sword, and we only produce 30 gold a turn.

Of course we don't have to fight. We could also go for Republic and try to peacefully expand. If we're resigned to not having iron, this may be the best bet.

I think we should fight because it's low risk. The least we would get is some slaves. The Mayans are too far away to hurt us.

p.s. From my calculations it'll take about 22 turns for three workers to build a road all the way to the iron. They'll cross one mountain and one swamp.

This is why I'm wary of going for the iron spot. Those 66 worker turns could be spent improving our own infrastructure, giving us money and shields. I don't want to spend so much effort preparing for a war that we fall further behind.

We should be able to play the Incans and Mayans off each other to maintain a balance of power. Destroying one of them would just turn the other into a superpower. In fact, shouldn't that be one of our goals, to get the Incas involved? Let them waste both their GA's in despotism cranking out units to be slaughtered!

 

[Gato Loco]

Floyd,
You make some good points. I don't think the war is low risk. We can defend ourselves, but at the cost of building lots of units, many of which will be destroyed, instead of building and expanding. This runs the risk of falling further behind and having a bunch of industrial age colonsits showing up on the empty peninsula. But anyway, if we're going to do it, I'll start making horses as soon as I het that horse roaded. I'm still going for the iron city. Upgrading a few swords and having a fallback position to absorb counterattacks is worth it. So for now it looks like the plan is to use the war to block Mayan expansion through the desert while siezing the land for ourselves. We've got to make sure we keep sending out settlers during the war.

Also, I think the Inca already started their golden age. How else do they get 13 gpt to trade us? If we're lucky I can sign a gpt deal which will bankrupt them as soon as the GA ends. Perhaps the neighbors are at war already? We don't have embassies, so we don't know.

p.s. I'm not sure how long I'll take. My computer is having problems and may give out. I'm attaching the half-played save just in case I lose my computer and can't finish it myself.

p.p.s. (then removed it because I finished the turns.)

 

[Gato Loco]

1125 BC - Maya Assault 3 – N,NE,N, as an escort for the road gang
Warrior der Munich – fortify
Road Gang 1,2 build road, RG3 – NW
Settler, Escort, MA3, all north
TK – fortify
E. Curragh, W,SW
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,W to a small island
New Settler, NE,NE,NE
Trade Writing + 43g to Maya for Masonry and Polytheism. Trade it to Inca for 11gold + 6gpt. GPT is preferred over lump sum because it’s less likely to be demanded. Once the Maya know it they won’t pay 13gpt anymore.
Science to 100%
Switch Leipzig to archer. We’ll use him in the coming war.

IBT - Japanese get ToA. Good thing it wasn’t the Maya. We couldn’t capture it and they’d get loads of culture.

1100 BC - War Delta – East
Curragh Der Inca – SW,W
Escort, Settler, MA2 – North
MA3 – north (barb hunting)
RG3 – irrigate
RG 1,2 – NE
Worker A and companion go W,W
New Settler – NE,NE,E
E. Curragh – SW,S
Sci 90%, Lux 10%

IBT - Frankfurt Curragh 3 -> Temple (Library prebuild)
Inca get hanging gardens the same turn they start it. SGL?
Zulu get the wall. Meh.

1075 BC - Curragh 3 – NE,NE
Worker A and companion West
Settler E,N
RG1 – road
RG2 – irrigate
MA3 – NW
Escort,Settler,MA2 – north
War Delta – NE
Curragh Der Inca – W,N
E. Curragh – S,E
Berlin producing on plains

IBT - Berlin Spear (Hoplite Wannabe) -> Settler

1050 BC - HW – NE,NE,NE
Worker A – Road
Companion – NW
Curr. Der Inca – N,E
Curr 3 – SW,W (Going to suicide)
Settler – E
E. Curragh – E,E
MA3 – W
Settler, escort, MA2 – north
War Delta – north, another Maya city

IBT - Maya boots War Delta again, but to a different place.
Leipzig Archer (Pointy Stick) -> Archer
Hamburg – Worker -> Spear

1025 BC - Pointy Stick – E,E,N
HW – NE,NE,E
Worker roads horse
Worker near Frankfurt goes SE,SE,SE
Curr. Der Inca – E,S
Curr 3 – E,E
MA3 – NE
RG3 – road
RG2 – S
Worker from Hamburg – NE
Settler – SE
E. Curragh E,NE
Settler founds Cologne on iron
Escort – renamed “Sneaky”, move north
MA2 – north
War Delta – south
RG1 – north

IBT - Inca building Great Library

1000 BC – War Delta – SW
Curr Der Inca – SE
PS – NE,N
HW – N,NE,N
Work Der Hamburg – irr
Settler founds Hannover near fish. This seems to be a less controversial choice.
E. Curr – NE,E
MA2 – fortify in Cologne
Sneaky – NE
RG2 – South
RG3 – SW
RG1 – road
MA3 – east
Curr 3 – N
Worker near Leipzig - Irrigate


Notes: Konigsberg is growing fast. Maybe we should whip the granary at some point?
One worker is still roading north. A few spaces of road will be better than none, especially if he reaches the mountains.
Horses are almost connected. Be sure to switch spear and archer prebuilds over when the road is done.
Keep an eye on Berlin
We’re benefiting from a 7gpt deal. It will expire in ~15 turns and we’ll need taxes again. When we get Lit, try to get more Incan gpt.
I didn’t get Monarchy because the war we’re planning doesn’t quite fit it. Better to have a late Republic if we aren’t at war perpetually.
Send more troops to Cologne, such as the archer and spearman.
Maybe Frankfurt should make another worker instead?
Next one up should get an embassy with the Inca. We’ll need it eventually.
Those Inca settlers will make nice human shields.

 

[floydmcw]

Gato Loco is undoubtedly correct deducing that the Incans are in a GA. They probably popped a bunch of huts that gave them techs. Such as:

We’re benefiting from a 7gpt deal. It will expire in ~15 turns and we’ll need taxes again. When we get Lit, try to get more Incan gpt.

Not if they're building the Great Library, we won't. We'll have to get what we can from the Mayans.

The Incans may be able to reach the Middle Ages soon. Don't all the barb camps erupt with horses when that happens? I'm looking for a siren smiley but can't find one. Be careful out there! Hold hands when you cross the street!

 

[Ginger_Ale]

Got it, will play tonight.

PS: We can sell to the Incans for gpt even if they have the great library. They get the techs for it the turn after 2 civs know it, so we are better off selling it to them, even if it's only for 1 gold if they have TGL since they'll learn it via TGL if 2 civs know it.