Venice discussion

[JSMCAG]

But per civ doesn't make sense either. They say how you have two per city. But if you have ten cities, you'll have less than two per city. How do they decide which cities don't get two?

I don't think it's 9 per city either, though, since I think the East India Company is partially credited for the total number and that might be city specific.

Uh? I'm pretty sure it's global, just like Happiness (hence being displayed on top).
You have on your disposal X number of trade routes you can have. Each trade route can start in any of your cities (just "rebase" the caravan/cargo ship there), and they can go to whatever other city they can reach.

There's really nothing more to it than this... It seems pretty obvious, really.


It's kinda similar to Strategic Resources even. If your civilization has 5 Iron, then any city can build swordsmen. Once you ran out of iron, you can no longer build more swordsmen.
Likewise, with ITRs, if you have a max of 5 ITRs, then you can establish ITRs from any city. Once you ran out of avaiable ITRs, you can no longer establish new ITRs...

 

[Louis XXIV]

I thought they said each city got two. I remember that in the PAX demo, although I might have misunderstood.

 

[Yzman]

But per civ doesn't make sense either. They say how you have two per city. But if you have ten cities, you'll have less than two per city. How do they decide which cities don't get two?

I don't think it's 9 per city either, though, since I think the East India Company is partially credited for the total number and that might be city specific.

Your civ has a certain amount of them. It is up to you to decide which trade routes would be the most lucrative to you. They don't decide, you do. They have shown you can choose which city the trade route comes from meaning your siberian outpost city probably won't get a trade route.

 

[Talcove]

I thought they said each city got two. I remember that in the PAX demo, although I might have misunderstood.

I think they meant that you can have nine trade routes, but that one city can only start two of them. Nine trade routes, and two can be assigned to each city.

 

[JSMCAG]

I think they meant that you can have nine trade routes, but that one city can only start two of them. Nine trade routes, and two can be assigned to each city.

I distinctly remember a screen shot where Marrakesh had, like, six trade routes going for Polish cities (and one for the City-State of Hong Kong). There was only one Trade Route going from another city - Rabat, I think...
I think it was in the leaked 78 screenshots, but I can't find those now...

 

[Talcove]

I distinctly remember a screen shot where Marrakesh had, like, six trade routes going for Polish cities (and one for the City-State of Hong Kong). There was only one Trade Route going from another city - Rabat, I think...
I think it was in the leaked 78 screenshots, but I can't find those now...

... Maybe one city can only have two incoming trade routes from the same civ? Idk, it's all just speculation until, either, we get confirmation, or until the game is released.

 

[Yubnub]

Here are all 78 files hosted on imgur http://imgur.com/a/9MBW9#0

 

[JSMCAG]

Here are all 78 files hosted on imgur http://imgur.com/a/9MBW9#0

Thank you! Here, have a cookie for your troubles!

The image I was talking about is this one - from a max number of nine Trade Routes, 8 are being used, with six departing from Marrakesh, and two from Rabat.

It really doesn't seem to be any kind of restriction to International Trade Routes, except for the number of them and their range. It's also possible you can't have two different ITRs going from the same city and going to the same city (so, for example, only one trade route going from Marrakesh to Warsaw).

 

[Louis XXIV]

I think they meant that you can have nine trade routes, but that one city can only start two of them. Nine trade routes, and two can be assigned to each city.

Interesting. I stand corrected. That makes more sense anyway for balance reasons given that the effects of trade routes appear to be quite powerful.

I'm surprised we haven't gotten enough info to make this clear yet, though.

 

[gunnergoz]

Thank you! Here, have a cookie for your troubles!

The image I was talking about is this one - from a max number of nine Trade Routes, 8 are being used, with six departing from Marrakesh, and two from Rabat.

It really doesn't seem to be any kind of restriction to International Trade Routes, except for the number of them and their range. It's also possible you can't have two different ITRs going from the same city and going to the same city (so, for example, only one trade route going from Marrakesh to Warsaw).

That limit of 9 trade routes may be situation dependent and not a hard limit in the game itself.

 

[VainApocalypse]

Consider three things:

1) The screenshot is late game; the player is researching Telecommunications.

2) According to the tech tree, no technologies after Penicillin add additional trade routes. The Internet is reported to have a cultural effect.

3) According to Arioch's archive, no wonders, resolutions, policies, beliefs or unique abilities (that we know of) add trade routes. There are only ones that add to trade yield and range.

Conclusion: It is not certain that 9 is the maximum number in the game, but there is no reason to believe that anything higher can be achieved by those who are not sufficiently Venetian. 18 may be their limit.

At the same time, it's hard to fathom that nothing in the game would add trade routes. If there is something we don't know about that adds a trade route: a wonder, belief or policy, Venice's max may push well into the 20s.

 

[Sir Parsifal]

However, there are three unknown effects on the Tech Tree which the player who is researching Telecommunications has not necessarily researched yet: Globalization, Railroad, and Combustion. Any of those might add bonus trade routes, and ten is a lot nicer of a number than nine.

 

[VainApocalypse]

However, there are three unknown effects on the Tech Tree which the player who is researching Telecommunications has not necessarily researched yet: Globalization, Railroad, and Combustion. Any of those might add bonus trade routes, and ten is a lot nicer of a number than nine.

Since the UN has been removed, the effect in globalization probably unlocks the vote for world leader.

Thematically, it seems highly plausible that railroads might add a route, in which case the numbers for impoverished Civs and the racially superior Venetians would respectively be 10 and 20.

 

[Sir Parsifal]

But it doesn't seem that any of the other votes are unlocked by technologies: for instance, World Ideology voting is unlocked at Radio, but there is no new effect there.

 

[Bechhold]

So you can only puppet CS or any type of city AI included?

 

[Talcove]

Since the UN has been removed, the effect in globalization probably unlocks the vote for world leader.

Thematically, it seems highly plausible that railroads might add a route, in which case the numbers for impoverished Civs and the racially superior Venetians would respectively be 10 and 20.

The World Congress featurette indicated that the vote for world leader starts when you enter a certain era. The information era picture came up when they said that, so it implied that once you enter the information era the vote for world leader starts.

 

[Arachnofiend]

However, there are three unknown effects on the Tech Tree which the player who is researching Telecommunications has not necessarily researched yet: Globalization, Railroad, and Combustion. Any of those might add bonus trade routes, and ten is a lot nicer of a number than nine.

There's an unknown effect at Railroad so this is entirely possible.

 

[Yzman]

So you can only puppet CS or any type of city AI included?

You can puppet any city. People seem to only be looking at the CS, while you can in fact use an army to take enemy cities to puppet as well.

 

[VainApocalypse]

You can puppet any city. People seem to only be looking at the CS, while you can in fact use an army to take enemy cities to puppet as well.

To elaborate. The Merchant of Venice allows you to puppet city states peacefully. It does not allow you to puppet other cities peacefully. For them, you will have to use force.

 

[Calouste]

Consider three things:

1) The screenshot is late game; the player is researching Telecommunications.

2) According to the tech tree, no technologies after Penicillin add additional trade routes. The Internet is reported to have a cultural effect.

3) According to Arioch's archive, no wonders, resolutions, policies, beliefs or unique abilities (that we know of) add trade routes. There are only ones that add to trade yield and range.

Conclusion: It is not certain that 9 is the maximum number in the game, but there is no reason to believe that anything higher can be achieved by those who are not sufficiently Venetian. 18 may be their limit.

At the same time, it's hard to fathom that nothing in the game would add trade routes. If there is something we don't know about that adds a trade route: a wonder, belief or policy, Venice's max may push well into the 20s.

There is an achievement for combining a Caravansary, a Harbor, Petra and the Colossus in one city. We already know from screenshots that Petra and the Colossus both no longer give gold to tiles, so they must have a trade route related bonus. As there are already extra gold bonuses to trade routes available via policies, the Market and the East India Company, and the Caravansary and the Harbor extend the range of trade routes, the most likely benefit for the Colossus and Petra would be an extra trade route.