VENICE vs AUSTRIA: Battle of the City-State Acquisition Civs

[Quitzz]

Another malus to Venice is that they have to puppet which is inferior in every way to annexing.-

Not rly. Venice still can buy everything in puppets. Also Venice shouldn't care about any buildings for national wonders since puppets doesn't count.

 

[PhilBowles]

Not rly. Venice still can buy everything in puppets. Also Venice shouldn't care about any buildings for national wonders since puppets doesn't count.

Yes, it can buy a whole lot of units with no experience in puppets because they don't tend to build barracks...

Buildings are useful for more than just national wonder counts - it can be frustrating having a perfectly-sited trade city and be unable to build a harbour or caravansery, for instance. It also means, of course, that not only do you pretty much have to put Venice somewhere where it can act as a production city, you can't build more than one wonder at a time. Oh yes, plus Venice needs all three tourism NWs.

Bear in mind also that you can't choose how specialists are assigned in puppets - happily for Venice puppets like to favour merchant specialists, but it's still a weakness where science is concerned.

 

[shaglio]

Yes, it can buy a whole lot of units with no experience in puppets because they don't tend to build barracks...

Or you could just buy the barracks and then start buying units.

 

[GhostSalsa]

If your starting position with Venice is "only decent" you will have a bad game

Yes that's the big catch. But only if you're willing to play that kind of start. Since Venice is themed and designed around a network of coastal properties then I just consider starts where I don't have neighboring CS as bad programming and load up again...

 

[KmDubya]

The bad thing with the puppets is that their border expansion rate is less than it would be if they were annexed and you can not buy a tile. How many times will the AI culture expand into a worthless ocean or coast instead of grabbing a nice hill or even a resource or natural wonder?

 

[reddishrecue]

In acquiring CSs, I think Venice could have an upper lead with Serenissima because all Venice needs is the Great Merchant of Venice to puppet a CS while Austria with Diplomatic Marriage requires alliance with a CS, plus 5 turns of alliance and a merchant's fee of approximately 200-500 gold. Diplomatic Marriage probably lost its touch from Gnk in BNw because making gold required less production than it does in BNW since now a civilization needs active trade routes to make the much required gold that used to be made naturally in GNK to purchase the CSes. Venice on the other hand, only needs to make sure the merchant gets to the CS' borders and simply make the purchase.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

In acquiring CSs, I think Venice could have an upper lead with Serenissima because all Venice needs is the Great Merchant of Venice to puppet a CS while Austria with Diplomatic Marriage requires alliance with a CS, plus 5 turns of alliance and a merchant's fee of approximately 200-500 gold. Diplomatic Marriage probably lost its touch from Gnk in BNw because making gold required less production than it does in BNW since now a civilization needs active trade routes to make the much required gold that used to be made naturally in GNK to purchase the CSes. Venice on the other hand, only needs to make sure the merchant gets to the CS' borders and simply make the purchase.

they only need to make the first free merchant do that. after that you have to dedicate citizens to market/bank slots to get any more if you plan to get more than one CS. Austria does have to jump thru a few hoops but getting allies with CSs is much easier now through tons of quests they offer and saving 500g by then is easy. i still vote for austria for personal preference. settle as many cities as you want and marry CSs in a fortuitous/timely manner can be more hugely advantageous VS using GMs for puppets with a modest advantage. one of my favorite games came from liberating CSs Mongolia took to marrying them and using them to conquer Genghis. Venice wasnt capable of that kind of fun, haha.