Venice's Great Galleas
- Thread starter Goldkoron
- Start date
If there was a meaningful option to sack cities in the game besides genocidally whiping out half the population then maybe that would factor in but for gameplay's sake I'm thinking Venice can capture cities and make then do the puppet dance.
I think they need a a UU, but that is in line with my thinking they will be more warlike than not. Too bad they couldnt have just made the city state buying thing part of thier UA and then they could have both but that might have been overpowered.
I think they need a a UU, but that is in line with my thinking they will be more warlike than not. Too bad they couldnt have just made the city state buying thing part of thier UA and then they could have both but that might have been overpowered.
Terrible idea! I'm glad they didn't add a UB.
Explain how a UB is a terrible idea? If the UB is not meant for mass distribution through a dozen cities?
Ulthwithian
King
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 733
Goldkoron: Going by the precedent that every Civ gets a UU (which is distinct from a UGP), no, they should not.
From a strategic perspective, unless a Canals UB (and what would it replace, the Gardens?) would make their trade routes immune to plundering, it's very doubtful that they should not get a UU that would help to protect their trade routes in some form.
From a strategic perspective, unless a Canals UB (and what would it replace, the Gardens?) would make their trade routes immune to plundering, it's very doubtful that they should not get a UU that would help to protect their trade routes in some form.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Well, I don't think it's entirely inaccurate to represent the Latin Kingdom of Constantinople as a Venetian puppet city.
Ulthwithian
King
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 733
Goldkoron: Why the aqueducts? What would it do? (It probably should replace the Harbor.)
But you're arguing the wrong way around. Before you can argue FOR a UB, you must argue why Venice should NOT get a UU, bearing in mind that Mongolia shows that a UGP does not exempt a Civ from the requirement that they should all get a UU.
As far as it being 'known' for its canals, so what? Many Civs are 'known' (generally incorrectly) for certain things; that doesn't mean that they either will be in the game, or that they should be in the game.
E.g., Japan is 'known' for its megacorporations (keeretu), animation, and other things (Economic Miracle?). Does that mean that Japan 'should' have UBs/UIs/UUs for all of those things? No.
But you're arguing the wrong way around. Before you can argue FOR a UB, you must argue why Venice should NOT get a UU, bearing in mind that Mongolia shows that a UGP does not exempt a Civ from the requirement that they should all get a UU.
As far as it being 'known' for its canals, so what? Many Civs are 'known' (generally incorrectly) for certain things; that doesn't mean that they either will be in the game, or that they should be in the game.
E.g., Japan is 'known' for its megacorporations (keeretu), animation, and other things (Economic Miracle?). Does that mean that Japan 'should' have UBs/UIs/UUs for all of those things? No.
Really the only UB I would want from Venice would be a harbor that gave ships more XP.
But this is all Pie in the Sky because they made a unit for Venice complete with art and in game design and they will not just discard that.
Really what we should talk about is what, if any, changes to thier Great Galleas they should make.
But this is all Pie in the Sky because they made a unit for Venice complete with art and in game design and they will not just discard that.
Really what we should talk about is what, if any, changes to thier Great Galleas they should make.
Ulthwithian
King
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 733
Rajjah: I could certainly get behind a discussion on how to improve the Great Galleass. I am very sympathetic to the suggestion that they get something that they upgrade with.
Personally, I think that it would be cool to give them Logistics, and make them otherwise normal Galleasses, but that's just me.
Personally, I think that it would be cool to give them Logistics, and make them otherwise normal Galleasses, but that's just me.
Ulthwithian
King
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2012
- Messages
- 733
That, in a world, would be broken. And I'm not joking in the least.
Getting 3 Range on Naval Ranged units is the exact point where you can more or less curbstomp any coastal city. And you want to give the Venetians that from the very beginning? No. If you want a defensive promotion for the Great Galleass, adding movement is much better than adding range. Or adding Sight Range.
Not range. And it wouldn't matter if I couldn't permanently take cities. The entire coast would be in flames. Extort everything you want, and when they disagree, destroy them.
KrikkitTwo
Immortal
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2004
- Messages
- 12,418
The Galleass not carrying over any benefits fits Venice well... once oceanic trade started up, they fell into decline. They were a sea power not an ocean power.
It was the worth the suggestion, increased movement speed would perhaps be better, Venice could subtly compete with Elizabeth in ship movement speed.
synulia
Chieftain
Just a thought. Instead of a Great Galleass, Venice could get a new National Wonder, a replacement for the Iron Works, the Arsenale de Venezia. It could give bonus xp to ships constructed in Venice, and would make sense with the one city style that Venice is forced to adapt to.
Venice is already different enough from other civs, I do not see a reason against an additional different thing, a UNW
Maybe it should be a promotion that gives them a bonus to combat in shallow waters?
headcase
Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn
If it were to be defensive, it should be extra combat strength (NOT ranged strength) or extra ranged strength in friendly territory only, or extra sight, since that will help defend routes. Or weaker but costs less hammers gold (thanks Rajjah), so they can spread out and defend all the routes\puppets.
Related question: If a civ pillages your route but you don't see it, does the game still tell you who pillaged it?
I like the UU ok as is, besides the name.
Also, Venice gets naval bonuses besides that UU. The UA allows double the trade routes, and sea routes are more lucrative than land routes. It also gives an MoV at optics, which is more incentive to build navally.
Related question: If a civ pillages your route but you don't see it, does the game still tell you who pillaged it?
I like the UU ok as is, besides the name.
Also, Venice gets naval bonuses besides that UU. The UA allows double the trade routes, and sea routes are more lucrative than land routes. It also gives an MoV at optics, which is more incentive to build navally.
