Venice's Great Galleas

[wigwam]

It would make more sense as a Venetian replacement for the Heroic Epic.

A shipyard/factory unique in human history makes more sense as a poem than as a Wonder?

 

[BrokenSky]

Maybe if Venice's UB were actually a unique wonder (not a replacement) then maybe it might come close to being balanced, but for a civ with one city a UB would be almost useless. The galleass should have a different name, but really if you want something that will last more than an era, and do more than a jot, then maybe a fort replacing improvement which makes a culture ring around it like a citadel to represent a colony?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

I'll admit that something like an UB/UNW (unique national wonder) would be awesome, but the Galleas may be okay too. 20 ranged strength early on is quite powerful.

I think an unique Arsenale which would replace Heroic Epic could be awesome. It could do something like "extends all the promotions and +XP an unit produced in Venice would have to all rushbought units in puppets". Brandenburg+Arsenale+Alhambra+all the +XP/strength buildings/polcies = buy super powerful units with +XX XP and Rough Terrain Bonus on the other side of your empire.

Oh and while an epic hardly seems fit to be replaced with an Arsenale, there's other examples like that. Can you say Floating Gardens make any sense replacing a watermill, or does papermaker replacing an ancient-era library, coffee house replacing a windmill, satrap court replacing a reneissance era bank?

But the Galeass seems nice too, if it's not too much more expensive (although it'd be best if it came with a free promotion which went over after the ship upgraded)

 

[Deggial]

Do we know already everything about the "Great Galeass"? Arioch states at his website, that there is still one unknown promotion. Why is everybody asuming, that this promotion is not inheritable? Well, maybe it is not - but we don't know, so far!

The Great Galeass as Venecian's UU is perfecly fine. Historically, the Venecians "invented" this ship class as a powefull trade-ship to be protected against the increasing pirate mischief. If at all, it might be a little bit unlucky that the galeass is a generic ship in Civ5 already and available for all nations. But as we have to live with this, a "Great Galeass" works well enough.

 

[sukritact]

I'm surprised there's any talk about the Great Galleass being bad flavorwise. It's very historical although the name could probably be improved.

Now the Merchant of Venice? That sounds ridiculous!

 

[wigwam]

The "unknown promotion" is almost certainly the same malus the regular Galleass gets—can't go into open ocean.

 

[Viregel]

I'm surprised there's any talk about the Great Galleass being bad flavorwise. It's very historical although the name could probably be improved.

Now the Merchant of Venice? That sounds ridiculous!

The Galleass itself would be fine as a UU if it wasn't already in the game, and the Great Galleass isn't exactly a historical name, as you mentioned. I agree on the Merchant of Venice as well, it's as if Firaxis only watched The Merchant of Venice and skipped Othello, where it showed that Venice expanded be an empire. The Venice civ just doesn't live up to its historical glory. At one point, they owned most of the major east Mediterranean trading points, as opposed to just trading with them.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I have seen historical records that refer to Venetian ships as a Great Galley (from what I gather, they just mean a really large galley), so I wouldn't say it's entirely not historic, just mostly that way.

 

[Tagma]

You all might want to head over to zacminor's Venice/Shoshone playthrough thread- some eagle-eyed viewers of his video have noticed that the Great Galleas is CHEAPER than regular galleases, and can perform both melee AND ranged attacks!

 

[Gucumatz]

Different game speeds account for the production cost diff. If you watch the video Zac says the Great Galleass costs more hammers/gold to produce than a regular galleass and people disagree on the melee promotion

 

[headcase]

The "unknown promotion" is almost certainly the same malus the regular Galleass gets—can't go into open ocean.

I remember reading it only had 3 movement points (not sure if that was a typo or something). If so, the promotion could be "twice as fast in shallow water".