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Version 2.5beta patch

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. Jeanluccresson

    Jeanluccresson Chieftain

    Oct 10, 2008
  2. 0100010

    0100010 Prince

    Mar 31, 2008
    No UI, first time no Civopedia or UI, applied the provded fix and could see the Civopedia from the main menu, but still no UI in game. Tried the file from the post above and still no UI.

    Am running on Vista
  3. dasvidania

    dasvidania Warlord

    Oct 30, 2007
    Hi all, my problem whith this beta is that i don't hear any music, i'm the onlyone to have this problem?.

    Bye :)
  4. Black Whole

    Black Whole Dancing Condor

    Dec 21, 2005
    Theatre of Dreams
    I solved the missing UI problem in that way (I hope that it is solved): I have the BUGPath file from Jeanluccresson and very important disabled Start as Minors. Somehow, it blocks the initializing of BUG ang therefor there is no interface.

    EDIT It worked for me now with Start as Minors enabled, though the feature itself doesn't work. Just weird.

    For zappara:
    There is a traceback call at the first turn of the game:
    Spoiler :

    File CvEventInterface, line 30, in onEvent

    File BugEventManager, line 251, in handleEvent

    File BugEventManager, line 264, in _handleDefaultEvent

    File RevolutionInit, line 88, in onGameStart

    File RevolutionInit, line 167, in onGameLoad

    File StartAsMinors, line 56, in init

    File StartAsMinors, line 106, in onSetPlayerAlive

    AttributeError: 'CyPlayer' has no attribute 'SetIsMinorCiv'
  5. Domino369

    Domino369 Warlord

    Mar 16, 2007
    Sry, double posted for some reason :S
  6. Domino369

    Domino369 Warlord

    Mar 16, 2007

    Production decreases look kinda bad, but then again, I can see how it did unbalance the game so +1 on this.

    Alright I guess, can't say much for historical accuracy tho lol

    Am very glad for this :3

    Aww, will this be fixed?

    Haven't tried it yet, but am about to. Been looking forward to this. DLING!!!!
  7. wrestler235

    wrestler235 Chieftain

    Apr 1, 2008
    My error that keeps appearing at the startup of a game is that the xml file needed to init BUG is missing, so the init fails, thus creating no UI. Anyone know how to fix that?
  8. James009

    James009 Warlord

    Nov 13, 2002
    I didn't see this thread at first... oops. Anyways...

    Wow, quite a lot of civic changes here! Now I have to relearn the whole game, lol. Actually, I enjoy the new system because its a LOT more realistic. However, it needs some minor work...

    First of all, there isn't much of a difference between Government and Power. In fact, many are counter to one another (Despotism and Senate, Federal and President) and some are very similar (Aristocracy, Oligarchy, and Patrician). I would suggest that you use them in a different system such replacing Power with Executive (or government) and Government to State.

    I know this has to be VERY difficult to balance and get perfect, I'm not even sure if my idea makes sense but here's what I'm thinking.

    Government -> Executive:
    This represents where your civilizations chief executive's source of power comes from, aka the head of your government. This would be the Emperor, Despot, King, or elected leader's means of power and what they can or can't do. For example, a Monarchy (King) has strong military powers (exp bonus) and means to control his subjects (troops create happiness).

    I also have some suggestions for rebalancing the systems of governments:
    • Despotism is good
    • Chiefdom is great!
    • Communist could perhaps use a unhealthiness penalty :yuck: due to government control of everything (or lack of food). Look at the Soviet Union in the '80s for inspiration.
    • Democracy-I think you should switch some of the benefits between Democracy and Republic.
      • Democracy should get the +25% commerce :gold: because of more civilian involvement with the markets and government, maintain the 15% culture :culture: bonus, lose the espionage :espionage: benefit (should be more open to foreign espionage), get the 3 happy :) bonus, gain the military unit cost, and keep the great person birth rate :gp:
      • There should be a small maintenance cost associated with the number of cities
      • You could also maybe throw in a small science bonus here (or in Republic, Parliament, or Senate)
      • Also, a Democracy should have higher military costs (+1-2 gp)
    • Republic- A Republic system is still open to democracy but decisions are more so made by those elected. Again, lots of switching of benefits with Democracy.
      • Should gain the +15% commerce :gold:, gain 10-15% culture :culture: (not as much as Democracy), get the small espionage :espionage: bonus, get only 2 happy :) bonus, keep the great general emergency bonus :gp:, and keep the exp bonus
      • There should be a small maintenance cost associated with both the number of cities and the distance from the capital (both half as much as Democracies but equal in total)
      • Also, a Republic should have higher military costs (+1gp) but not as high as Democracy
    • Federal- First, you should consider renaming this to Representative Democracy (though Federal does work so long as it's explained. This is a sort of hybrid between Democracy and Republic and the benefits should be similar. Secondly, I'd combine this with Presidency (redundant) to include the bonus to military.
      • I think the unit costs should be eliminated (non-military), maintain the military unit costs :gold:, have one or two happy bonus :), a culture benefit (in between Republic and Democracy), and a 10% great general emergence :gp: bonus
      • Also, there should be a small economic benefit (like Republic and Democracy)
      • A Federal system should have maintenance penalties. Try to reduce or eliminate the maintenance costs (just like a Republic or Democracy its hard maintain over a large territory). Try to combine the Republic and Democracies costs into this one... as in they are equal in total.
      • In conclusion, a Federal Government or Executive system (Presidential) would be a mixture of the Republic and Democracy.
    • Monarchy is good but maybe it should have a +1 unhappiness :mad: associated with it (people disliking the rule) to promote the use of military garrisons
    Power -> State:
    This represents your state and how it is run. I'd rename it from power to State to make it a little more clear. This could be how your legislative system is run or the inner workings of your domestic government.
    • Oligarchy- Perhaps this should be renamed to Barbarism as in you have no real system for domestic control. Things just get done. I find it too simular to the Aristocracy and Patrician systems.
    • Aristocracy is done well
    • Patrician is done well
    • Bureaucracy is good
    • Senate- The Senate and Parliament should be very similar.
      • Should have a 10-15% war wariness effect :o, get rid of the 10% food trade :food: bonus (doesn't make much sense) or change it to economic :gold: or production bonus :hammers:, add a 10% economic bonus :gold:, and add a 10% military bonus :strength: (Senates can be good at making armies. See US, Athens, Romans)
      • Also, maintain the maintenance cost
    • Parliamentary- Again, similar to Republic but is focused more on domestic concerns and responsive to the people.
      • Everything is great but add a +15-25% maintenance cost for number of cities (not as high as Republic).
    • Vassalage is good but what if food added to military production?
    • Remove Presidential system merging it with Federal

    I have a lot less to say here because I simply I like the way you did these :)
    • Barter is a good place to start and appropriate
    • Slavery is good
    • Mercantile really represents itself with your settings.
    • Laizze Faire is good
    • Planned is good
    • Corporatism is good but maybe you should get some bonus to trade (+1 trade route :gold:)
    • Keynesian- I would rename this to Regulated Free-Market or just Regulated. I know the great John Maynard Keynes created it but he created the theory, not the practice. I'd argue that we are talking about the economic system of a "Regulated Free-Market" economy and not the theory of it. Its also more clear that way to people who have no idea who John Maynard Keynesis.
      • You got a great set up here but perhaps you should spread out the town production :hammers:. I don't know if it transfers to cities... you know?
    • Green is nice and healthy for the eco-minded civilizations


    I really like what your doing with the new civic system, however, it just needs some revision. It's more realistic and lets you see how different societies are run.

    My main concerns are with the Government and Power civics, specifically with Democracy, Republic, and the Federal systems.

    Anyways, I do enjoy your mod, its the best one on the market!
  9. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

    Mar 23, 2008
    As one of the architects for the new civic system, I must say I am very impressed with how they are working thus far. However, there are some minor tweaks I see that should be addressed. I'll take it civic by civic, column by column.

    Chiefdom: It seems slightly overpowered with all the military bonuses. Perhaps a small (25%?) maintenance cost penalty from distance to palace?

    Despotism: I think some small science or commerce penalty would be good to add. We do not want everyone to use Despotism the whole game. It should be a fully militaristic civic without much peacetime gain except defense and production.

    Monarchy: Looks good. I originally didn't like the military garrison bonus since it makes Fascist less unique, but it makes it a good balanced civic.

    Republic: Almost perfect, but please make it available sooner (Democracy? Writing?). Roman Republic? Remember that not all republics are constitutional republics, or even democratic at all. Just look at the People's Republic of China, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the French republic, and the Roman republic even. But in all cases, the previous government was disposed to create a government backed by the people, which is what Republic represents. It is not intended to be the new civic equivalent of Representation, which I believe Democracy fills well.

    Democracy: Looks good, except I would remove the happiness bonus or make it just +1. Remember that under majority rule, the minority is usually oppressed, so society is not all fine and dandy.

    Fascist: Looks good.

    Communist: I'd add +1 production from Workshops to balance it, as the upkeep costs are very high,

    Federal: I like this idea. It is Representative Democracy, but it is a federalist style where the local and state/provincial governments have power over their territories and the federal government simply oversees. It makes having a large land area possible.


    Oligarchy: Personally, I don't like this civic. It is too powerful for a beginning civic, and its function is very similar to Senate, which is a representative body that does not have to be democratic (is often more aristocratic), which is essentially an oligarchy. Remember that nobles had the political power in Sumeria, so Aristocracy makes sense as a starting civic.

    Aristocracy: If possible, I would make the extra gold come only from Nobles. Otherwise it is good.

    Patrician: Great.

    Bureaucracy: I would make it available with Civil Service as originally, but otherwise perfect.

    Senate: It should be made available with Democracy, as that is historically what the mid to late Roman Republic had.

    Vassalage: I would remove the GP rate decrease, as historically it was manorial Feudalism not the practice of Vassalage that kept people from succeeding. I would also add free units to represent the demand for people to join the military in order to get land and power.

    Parliament: Looks good.

    President: This one needs a little work I think. Generally a strong executive creates warmongering. One only needs to look at Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Harry Truman, LBJ, and more recently George W. Bush. I would make it more of a militaristic civic, while Parliament (which also represents a Congressional system) should be the more peacetime civic (a weaker executive often leads to less war and more concentration on domestic issues, as shown with Coolidge, Eisenhower, Ford, ETC.) I'd keep the Great General, but rework the rest to be more militaristic. Remember that Hitler, Stalin, Mao Zedong, ETC. had a strong executive branch of government.

    James009, this new civic system was mostly created in the Civic Mini-Mod Discussion thread near the top of the page, which is where the rational comes for the Government and Power civics. Government is the actual governmental infrastructure and what political philosophy it is based upon while Power signifies who is actually in power in the government.

    Oligarchy = ruled by a few individuals who happened to take power in the beginning
    Aristocracy = ruled by nobles
    Patrician = ruled by the wealthy (think Republican Rome)
    Bureaucracy = rule by bureaucrats (think Imperial China)
    Senate = ruled by less democratic representative body (intended in beginning to also mean Oligarchy)
    Vassalage = ruled by the ruler and his vassals (people who give military support for political support in return)
    Parliament = ruled by a parliamentary representative body
    President = ruled by an executive body
  10. zappara

    zappara Mod Designer

    Dec 19, 2003
    No, but the patch includes new map files that are converted to v2.5beta settings. Old wont' work because of the starting civic changes.

    Aye, that's on my check list once I get to updating that package (after v2.5 release).

    Fixed few religion civic option bugs.. thanks for this report ;)

    At the moment it doesn't change it in any way. I haven't had time to look through that mod component's code.

    Can you post exact error message and possibly also log files? Helps me track down those buggers.

    This was a bug, and will be fixed.

    Hmm, sounds like an error where BUG mod component can't read some folder or filename correctly because it has some odd letters (non-native english operating system?). If you could post log files here, I could look into more precisely.

    I hope I included the correct BUGPath file in the fix zip... I'll have to check it... :crazyeye:

    Thanks for the report, I'll run some tests and try to fix it.

    I might not be able to fix Tectonics script so that it places Marsh - It's kind of hard for me to decipher source code made by others and then try to make additions to it without messing up the whole script (mapscript algorithms can be rather complex).

    Please post log files so I can check the errors.

    I think Oligarchy can represent modern day Military Junta as well as ancient power system (just my opinion). And the game begins few thousand years before Sumerians actually formed their civilization - ie. time when there yet wasn't any nobility. ;)

    Aristocracy, not possible since there's no xml tag to add commerce rates to single city specialist type. Edit: Like I mentioned in the first post in this thread, there's also some civic modifiers that AI player's don't use at all when calculating the value for each civic. Modifiers which aren't use in the algorithms are at least Improvement changes, building health modifiers - there was probably others as well. The file where this info can be found is CvPlayerAI.cpp (I think) - rather complex coding there and I didn't even understand how some calculations actually work (been 6+ years since I've programmed anything and I know only the basics). Maybe Better BtS AI mod group will check those calculations at some point...

    Keep posting those modifier suggestions as you play so I can keep tweaking them. :)
  11. ggalindo001

    ggalindo001 Warlord

    Jan 4, 2002
    Some (good) news. I have been one of those users that have had consistent CTDs in 2.x in the Modern era.

    When a new version of ROM is released, I usually run games (AI Autoplay) to see if the the CTDs have been fixed...usually getting constant CTDs in the modern era, even when I turn everything off.

    In this beta version, I have been able to run 5 games to completion (defined as getting to Future Tech x) -- with everything turned on, on Huge Maps, with full graphics, etc. No CTDs!

    Now I am going to play an actual game to test the civics and other changes. But my observation to date is that this is the most stable ROM release in the version 2.x series, and am now optimistic that the irritating CTD may be behind us.

    [EDIT] -- FWIW, I have also not had any of the UI problems that others have had.....

  12. lordrune

    lordrune Prince

    Jan 1, 2008
    That's really good news, that modern CTD crash that seemed to come along sometimes was a real downer for me in this game. If its been fixed - awesome! I'll give this a go this coming week.
  13. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

    Mar 23, 2008
    Good point about Sumeria. I am guessing the game starts immediately at the Neolithic Revolution, so yes Oligarchy would make sense in that case. However, I do think it is slightly overpowered for a beginning civic. For now on I'll make my proposed tweaks more organized. (+) means add and (-) means remove. (>) means make a change.

    Mind you I am doing this prior to gameplay in order to promote historical accuracy. After this I'll give input to my input as I play the game with the civics.

    Oh and add "Can build Agora" to Democracy and Senate (so you can build it and it will work with either).

    (-) experience point (too powerful compared to the other available civics and too powerful for a starting civic)

    (>) Available with Military Training or Bronze Working (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristocracy#History)
    (+) +1 experience for new military units

    (>) Available with Trade
    (+) +1 happiness from Bazaar
    (+) +1 happiness from Market
    (+) +10/15% war weariness

    (>) Available with Civil Service

    (>) Available with Democracy
    (+) +1 happiness from Agora
    (+) +1 happiness in 6 largest cities (assembly = some voice)

    (+) Free units

    (>) Available with Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_III_of_England)

    (>) Available with Representative Democracy (arguably the first "Presidential" system in America was the Lincoln administration, which came after the Nationalism of the 18th century. Before that America was arguably under a Parliament (Congress is modeled after a parliamentary system.))
    (-) War weariness
    (+) +1 experience point for new military units


    (>) Available with Democracy. ("If Oligarchy is rule by the elite, then Democracy is rule by the poor." Aristotle, Politics)
    (>) Just a minor tweak, but could you change the word "neo-liberalism" in the description to "modern liberalism?" My mistake in writing that.
    (+) +25% corporate maintenance costs
    (-) Unhealthiness penalty. Remember that Proletariat has the working class pretty much at the top of the social hierarchy, so anti-trust laws, labor rights, ETC. are enforced very heavily at the expense of industry. In fact, I would give a +1 health benefit.
    (+) +1 happiness from Colosseum, Guild Hall, School

    (+) +1 unhappiness from Agora (to make Proletariat and Bourgeois reciprocals)
    (+) +1 happiness from Factory, Brothel, Casino

    (-) science penalty (neuters it)
    (>) 20% production to 10% production
    (+) culture penalty

    Stunningly perfect. ;)

    (>) I'd take off the part of the description talking about Fascist and Communist as that was an intended effect that is impossible to do.


    Eek. Needs a little work unfortunately. According to Wikipedia, these are the things Marxism composes of. Not sure if this brings up any new ideas.

    It essentially tries to eliminate social classes altogether.

    * an attention to the material conditions of people's lives and social relations among people
    * a belief that people's consciousness of the conditions of their lives reflects these material conditions and relations
    * an understanding of class in terms of differing relations of production and as a particular position within such relations
    * an understanding of material conditions and social relations as historically malleable
    * a view of history according to which class struggle, the evolving conflict between classes with opposing interests, structures each historical period and drives historical change
    * a sympathy for the working class or proletariat
    * and a belief that the ultimate interests of workers best match those of humanity in general

    What do the decreased maintenance costs represent? Otherwise perfect.

    (-) Production bonus
    (-) Quicker improvement building (for balance)
    (+) Can build Slave Market
    (+) +1 hammer from Mine, Shaft Mine, Quarry, Workshop
    (+) +1 food from Farm, Apple Orchard, Workshop
    (+) +1 commerce from Plantation, Winery, Olive Orchard, Silk Farm
    Putting slaves in all those improvements would increase productivity, but the sheer existence of slavery would not.

    I like the science penalty, since arguably it is competition that is the driving force of technological innovation. ;)


    (>) Available with Communism
    (+) Corporations have no effect
    (>) 30% production in all cities (imagine this combined with Communist)

    (+) Lower corporate maintenance costs.
    (-) Production bonus
    (+) +1 hammer from Workshop
    (+) +2 commerce from Well, Offshore Platform

    (-) Production bonus (the Town production bonus should be enough)
    (+) +2 happiness from Central Bank

    Not really a fan of Green since it doesn't exactly describe the type of economy, but nevertheless very good for the purpose it is intended to make. I think Green would make a better Society civic though.
  14. ggalindo001

    ggalindo001 Warlord

    Jan 4, 2002
    Keeping my fingers crossed as so far, I am 5 for 5 in completing AI Autoplay games. I think only Zap can really comment that it has been "fixed", it is just that everything seems more stable than before.

    About to start my "real" game to test the civics balance.

  15. Domino369

    Domino369 Warlord

    Mar 16, 2007
    I think the missing UI is strictly with the Minor civs option. Until the makers of the BUG mod can fix this, we're going to have to play without minors. Not that it's a bad thing, just reduces early game challenge a bit.
  16. Big Heb

    Big Heb Warlord

    Mar 23, 2008
    Seems like a filler, but looks good.

    Looks ok.

    Divine Cult: (Think Roman Imperial Cult and Egyptian worship of pharaohs rather than Mayan sacrifice cult.)
    (>) Available with Slavery ("I am the Pharaoh! I make the Nile River flood, so you must worship and obey my commands!")
    (+) No state religion (the state religion is worshiping the ruler)
    (-) +1 happiness in all cities w/ state religion
    (>) +1 experience from state religion to +1 experience in all cities
    (>) Obelisk to Monument
    (+) +1 unhappiness per non-state religion in each city
    (+) -25% war weariness
    (-) +2 happiness from Chichen Itza
    (+) +1 happiness from Palace
    (+) +1 happiness from Forbidden Palace
    (+) +1 happiness from Summer Palace

    Free Church:
    (+) +1 happiness with Sistine Chapel
    (+) +1 happiness with Hagia Sophia

    State Church:
    (-) Science penalty (Imperial China had Confucian state religion yet was a technological powerhouse)
    (+) Unlimited Priests
    (+) +1 unhappiness from non-state religion in each city
    (>) 20% commerce in capital to 15% commerce in capital
    (+) +1 happiness with Spiral Minerat
    (+) +1 happiness with University of Sankore

    (-) Unhealthiness
    (+) Can build Inquisitor units
    (+) +1 unhappiness per non-state religion in each city.
    (+) +3 happiness from King Richard's Crusade

    (-) +1 happiness in cities with state religion (impossible due to no state religion)
    (+) Happiness penalty to civilizations without Secular

    (>) Available with Biology (Darwinian evolution resulted in a massive boost for atheism)
    (+) Cannot build Priests (is that possible?)
    (+) +1 unhappiness per non-state religion in each city
    (+) +2 happiness from Theory of Evolution
    (+) +1 happiness from Einstein's Laboratory
    (+) +2 unhappiness from University of Sankore

    (>) No Upkeep

    (>) No Upkeep

    (-) Increased improvement growth
    (+) +1 happiness from Temple

    (>) Available with Currency (Civil Service would be government-provided)
    (>) Low Upkeep
    (>) +5% maintenance costs for corporations (money otherwise going to expand is going toward charity)
    (+) +1 happiness from Arena, Colosseum (private-funded entertainment)
    (+) +1 happiness from Circus Maximus (see above)
    (+) +2 happiness, +2 health from Red Cross

    Public Works:
    (>) High Upkeep
    (-) +1 base health
    (+) +1 health from Pont du Gard
    (+) +1 happiness from National Courier Service
    (+) +2 happiness from Three Gorges Dam

    (+) +1 happiness from School, Hospital, University (think Social Security, public education and federal grants)
    (>) +4 health to +2 health

    (>) +15% maintenance costs to +30% maintenance costs (isn't the tax rate really high in Finland?)

    (>) Available with Industrialism (I think corporate welfare started in the Industrial Revolution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Railway_Act))
    (-) +3 base health
    (+) +1 health from Corporate Chain (Sid's Sushi Restaurant, ETC.)
    (+) +2 health from Corporate Headquarters
    (+) +15% research in all cities
    (+) +25% maintenance costs from number of cities (corrupt government deals with corporations)

    They definitely need some tweaking, but I'll wait until I play through the game to do these. But I would rename Supremacy to Supranational, Transnational, or Post-National (whichever you like best) to depict EU/NATO/NAFTA/UN-style governing. There's also no Globalism/Glocalism?
  17. BadaBing

    BadaBing Chieftain

    Nov 24, 2005
    I fixed the missing UI problem by replacing \Rise of Mankind\Assets\Python\Revolution\StartAsMinors.py with \Rise of Mankind\Assets\Python\Revolution\Gameready\StartAsMinors.py
  18. wrestler235

    wrestler235 Chieftain

    Apr 1, 2008
    What do you mean by that? Did you replace the file in the gameready folder with the one in the revolution folder, or did you change the call location in some file?

    Also, how do i find the logs so I can post them?
  19. Nemesys

    Nemesys Chieftain

    Jan 26, 2008
    Hi Zappara,
    just some quick feedabck on 2.41 and 2.5:

    played with everything on except battle effects, stack attack and start as minors; great game experience, won by domination around 1830 on a custom game-standard map. No CTDs, no MAFs, no UI problems whatsoever. Still don't know if 2.41 solved CTDs bug because I won before the period in which the game usually gets unstable....

    updated and started a new game shortly after completing previous game: as before, everything on except stackattcak, battleeffetcs and start as minors. Custom game, using RoM Big and Small map, epic speed: currently around 1280 without any kind of problems, great...just a quick note: in 2.5 I noticed an outstanding reduction of Revolutions among various empires, compared with previous versions...this makes the game a little more boring since revs added new situations which could also be exploited by human player...by the way, do you know if there's somewhere in config files where I can set how easily revolutioin can take place?? this is the only thing I would look after, the rest is greast already!

    Hope it helps,

  20. BadaBing

    BadaBing Chieftain

    Nov 24, 2005
    Hi Wrestler,

    I copied the StartAsMinors.py file from the "Gameready" folder and overwrote the one in "Revolution". The game only uses the python file in the "Revolution" folder.

    Look at the first post here http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=296230 for instructions on how to enable logging

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