Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rise of Mankind' started by zappara, Mar 20, 2009.
But that's what they are for! At least in previous incarnations of Civ
One thing I would love to see is the return of the mastery victory - when you actually played the full length of the game and then got points for what you had achieved at the game end
You've said elsewhere you were considering more corporations so I've brainstormed a few myself. I don't use corporations much as my games seldom make it into the modern era, so the stats I suggest for them may me a little ridiculous.
Consumes: Cotton, Silk, Fur, Sheep, maybe hemp and/or oil products
All Cities: +2 G per resource consumed
Consumes: Ammunition, Steel, Sulphur, Vulcanized Rubber
All Cities: +1.5 exp for each resource consumed
Allows production of Mercenary Unit(s)
Consumes: Ancient Temple
All Cities: +2 C, +2 S for each resource consumed
Gideon's International (feel free to rename it: somebody suggested Faith Inc.)
Consumes: Ancient Temple, Hit Musical, Hit Single, Hit Movie
All Cities: +2 for each resource consumed, increases spread of state religion for each resource consumed
Hastens production of missionary units
Fast Food Inc
Consumes: Cow, Potato, Coffee, Wheat, Salt
All Cities: +.75 Food, +.5 +.5 Unhealthiness for each resource consumed
Consumes: Copper, Gold, Oil Products, Silver
All Cities: +.5, +2 S for each resource consumed
Depending on how many mech units you want:
Main Battle Mech (advantages against other mech units)
Interceptor Mech (Can intercept planes)
Amphibious Assault Mech
Special Forces Mech (has advantages in jungles, desert, snow, and other extreme conditions)
Insertion Mech (can paradrop)
War-In-A-Can Class Mech (super powered Mech: National unit)
Also there was one thing I think we settled on in the civic forum and that's that mercantilism needs reworking. First, I think it should require Guilds, Optics, Currency, and Engineering.
My explanation was...
As far as Mercantilism, this sort of economic control can only exist after borders have become somewhat solidified and infrastructure which allows internal and international trade becomes more dependable. It also requires the presence of a gold and silver monetary system and the exportation of manufactured goods. Let's assume glass as the first manufactured good, the compass is necessary for long distance travel and explorers, machinery and guilds for manufacturing, and engineering (which allows +1 movement on roads) to represent a good infrastructure.
And Guilds requires Machinery .
Aw... that was my favorite strategy from Civ2!
This is cool. Let's see if i can think of any.
Consumes: Elephant, Deer, Fur, Whale
All Cities: +2 C, +2 S for each resource consumed
Consumes: Coffee, Wine, Apple, Lemons, Banana, Glassware (possibly potato, wheat, rice or sugar too if you want more alcoholic beverages)
All Cities: +.75 Food, +.5 +.5 Unhealthiness for each resource consumed
I also think that some leaders should have favorite religions ...
Augustus Caesar - Hellenism
Hatsheput - Amun-Ra
Montezuma - Nagualism
Pacal II - Nagualism
These currently had no favorite religion. I am not sure if they left blank for a reason.
Not sure about the bunuses for it, but a Real World one (Has been around for a while now):
Hudson Bay Company:
Comsumes: Fur, Deer (any other resource that has a fur coat)
All Cities: ?
You guys seem to be better at suggesting bonuses than I.
Civ games, including RoM, are very much about war mongering and too little about CIVILIZATION...!!!
We care so much about specific abilities of units, promotions, UU, strategic locations of units, etc. The units are designed and planned to so much detail, NO TWO units are similar to each other...
On the other hand, ALL universities in the world of RoM are the same, having exactly the same effect on research.
But in reality, Harvard University for instance is not the same as another local university in the world.
The same goes for banks, bazaars and pretty much every building.
Isn't there a way to model these kind of differences? Perhaps, there can be a process that increases the fame of libraries or universities, that in their turn "attract" the best scientists around the world, having an additional impact on research and EVEN REDUCING the research output of opponents (because you took their best scientists). The "fame" of the university persists for the years (turns) to come, even if research spending decreases.
Could there be concepts like "industry", "tourism", "food", and other NON-WAR conepts in the game, that can play an IMPORTANT role? The "car industry" for instance in one country could be much better from another country, bringing in a lot of money and expertise in engineering type of technologies. "Tourism" and "food" industries could have similar effects on trade income and the artistic kind of technologies.
Road network, as another example, is the SAME in all countries (in RoM), but in reality this is far from true, and better roads and autoroutes play an extremely important role in the economy of each nation.
I just think that the game has so much detail (albeit still not realistic enough) in the WAR side of it, but NO detail at all in the PEACEFUL side. Something needs to be done.
I don´t really have a whole lot of experience in modding/game designing, however, I don´t think such a thing is possible at the present time. Okay, maybe it would be possible, but the game would be so complicated in the first place, that no commercial benefit could be drawn from the effort of designing it for any company. Which leaves a modder/modding-team to do it, but honestly, I think this would exceed anybody´s ambitions and resources in the long run.
It is to some point true what you say, however, these mentioned concepts are basically combined in the Civ-concept of 'Culture'. While this may not allow very deep distinctions you also have to say, that in the course of history it was mostly wars that changed things dramatically. Great civilzations did - from my spontantious memory - always emerge due to military advantages. From this point of view the high grade of militaric distinction seems justified.
Also, on a more practical POV, military is something you can influence directly in a game. A development of universities e.g. would have to include a lot of random events or effects and a game that is built around RNG is hardly fun in the long run (at least as long as it is a strategy-game).
You are right about the practical side of it, etc.
I guess I am mostly referring to the period after the second world war (modern era in RoM). It is the economy and culture that play a very important role nowadays.
However, in a civ game, once you've built the cottages and road network, already from medieval times or even before that, there in hardly any developing of the infrastructure of the country and its land. I really miss that, I like the part of the game where you have to develop your land and infrastructure (and this part of the game is really strategic as you have to decide whether you build a cottage first or a mine and whether you "work" this or that cottage or whether you build a farm, etc.).
There is no (not at all really) such type of gaming at the later stages, it is all about war-mongering. I would like to continue having to make serious decisions about infrastrucure, even at the late game, which in my opinion reflects much better current reality in the world.
I don't have specific ideas yet, but I find we are discussing too much about whether a unit should have 20%-30% or 40% more cost, or should have this or that promotion available, or plus or minus 1 power, and there is absolutely no discussion for the PEACEFUL side of the game, it is non-existent in the later stages. NOT the fault of the mod of course, this is a fantastic mod, but perhaps for a new version there should be a priority on ideas for the PEACEFUL side of the game instead of yet more war-mongering.
I dunno what u tried... but im somewhat shocked to see that. I play on deity and im always way too advanced for AI, to counter it i give all my vassals all my tech. so the tech, diffusion gives the AI some of my knowledge. plus i never build the encyclopedia to give rival AI's a fighting chance in the mid game (not that i get past the early industrial due to CTD/crappy computer that makes each Ai turn last 3-6min).
Anyway from what i see u have too many cities! And no improvements... u have gems near Brule and you dont mine it? You clearly over expanded. U need a stable economy before building new cities or u will lag behind... Dont underestimate the power of the WORKER!
I know its a petty request and I havn't mentioned it until now because I figured Zap's getting around to it, but, could Vers 2.7 feature the Ethiopian Maceman and Pikeman from Varietas Delectat as the African heavy swordsman and heavy pikeman? You might want to enlarge the pikeman's shield and change the color of their cloths. Sorry for bringing this up but it's gotten really annoying to see my men go all Michael Jackson on me at the end of the middle ages. Also, any effort to darken the skin of later African units, as necessary, would be appreciated.
Here is the Hvy pikeman http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/ethiopikeman2_F36.jpg
And here is the Hvy Swordsman http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads/ethiohvyfoot2_wou.jpg
How about a world project that let's you build National Units like super soldiers,but limited to 1 or 2.
Once you lose it dead forever.
Juicers! or G.R.E.L'S!
please go back a page and click on those six youtube links,
It's mostly time issue - I do not have time to add everything even if I wanted so I've had to make some hard decisions what to add and what not. Culturally specific buildings is one thing that I have considered (more UBs for every civ) but I haven't had really time to do such research about them so I ended up just adding most general building types - RoM does have way more buildings/wonders than regular BtS game. Too bad Firaxis dropped 'Tourist Attraction' feature, it was nice in Civ 3.
Road network will get changed in v2.61 (originally planned for v2.7). Instead of 2 road types you will have option for 8 road types over time in next version.
Some civic still need some minor tweaking I hope for 2.7
Slavery is still a bit too powerful in 2.6, certainly more useful than before, and I understand the need to make it viable, but there needs to be more negative repercussion for it. Slave revolt events maybe need to occur with slightly more frequency. Maybe a +1 Unhappy per city in addition to the existing unhealth. There needs to be a viable early economy civic alternative to Slavery (other than Barter) for those who don't want to use it. As it is now, there is no reason not to use slavery prior to obtaining use of Free market.
Here are a few non-radical recommendations. Please note that I am only part way through a 2.6 game, do not know how many graphics changes there have been since 2.5.
Wonders (Great and National):
Add the Brandenburg Gate with changes to its powers
Add the Leaning Tower
National Sports League graphics change
No gold penalty from Amusement Park.
Manor graphic change
Butcher graphic change
Garrison graphics change (rebuilt version)
Shopping District graphics change
Aluminum Factory gives a 5% production bonus with power instead of the Engineer slot if there are civics which allow for infinite Engineers.
Can be used as a graphics change for any of the Nagualism buildings
Bazaar graphics change
Bunker graphics change
A somewhat more radical suggestion, Leaders to be added to existing civs (which only have one leader currently)
Saddam Hussein-Babylon or Sumeria
Franz Joseph-Holy Roman Empire
Thanks for the 2.6 update, and look forward to 2.7.
I disagree, i never use slavery and i dominate on (snail) deity, i rather have big scientific cities than small unhappy villages and they build wonders faster, so there is a reason to use barter instead of slavery. The unhappiness kills on snail or maybe im just a good despot
Nowhere am I suggesting that you can't dominate without slavery on Diety, you can, but that's because well the Mod is much easier than vanilla BtS at any difficulty level in general. I am saying you will find it even easier with slavery than without. Perhaps you somhow only manage to get small unhappy villages with slavery, but I dont, I have huge, happy, non-rebellious, scientific cities and I run: Democracy/Patrician/Slavery/Proletariat/Prophets/Public Works and have been running most of those civics for a few thousand years on Deity and on Snail on a truly massive map (Smart Map 200x400).
(FYI: I popped Democracy very early with the Oracle, and City Planning with a great merchant)
So far, slavery has trumped Barter hands down. Increasingly more so as trade routes become more important. And if your really worry about unhappy faces with slavery skip building the slave markets. you get screwed over if you build them later on in the game anyway, so save yourself the trouble. There is really no incentive to not use slavery up to the point of getting free market.
For future era you can use some SMAC`s ( Sid Meier`s Alpha Centauri ) ideas - wonders, units, traits, improvements.
BTW. great mod Zappara, thx
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