Version 2.8 discussion

zappara · Aug 2, 2009

Nightguard said:
One thing that I have noticed about the Modern Mines, and actually noticed the same thing with trying to build Shaft Mines. Both of them can only be built on resources currently. I'm not sure if this is intentional, or if it's a slight issue with the way they were designed. I'm inclined to think this is an error, as the Modern Mine shows that it has a small chance of discovering resources, which of course is impossible on a tile that already has a resouce.

Other than that, I'm thoroughly enjoying my current playthrough. I like playing for a tech finish, as it lets me see everything that's in the game, so I'll probably have a few more observations by the time this game is completed.

It's small bug which I noticed too while playing v2.71. It's been fixed already for v2.8.

JosEPh_II · Aug 2, 2009

Something that I've noticed for a long time now, the City Govenor/AI. Is it really that shizophrenic?

I fight it every game, every turn. I turn off the auto citizen and as soon as I finish the current build it turns it back on and shuffles workers around. You can watch it do it when you click End of turn. City tiles will highlight/dehighlight and when you can start your turn your citizens have shifted off well producing tiles to becoming a multitude of Priests, for ex.. Thus throwning a growing thriving city into Stagnation or Starvation.

So if the City Gov does this to the Player what devastation is it doing to the AI?

We've mentioned several Civics that are in need of adjustments, I believe the City Gov exacerbates the problem many times over. Or the buildings/wonders/Civics that allow Specialists (of any kind) is wreaking havoc on the City Gov. I don't mod this game so I don't know the pecking order of what takes precedence over what.

The AI likes caste and slavery because they are still overpowered

Agreed

if you can handle the happiness hit (and with one temple giving +2 happy, that's a breeze once you hit medieval

Not all temples give +2 Happy, and not all temples give +1 Health but I find both are necessary for balancing out the adverse Unhappy/unhealthy that most commerce and production gives out.

You're correct about the problem (AI industrial death), but incorrect about the solution, as Slavery/Caste/Communism are, in fact, the strongest civics in their classes, if one can handle the happiness/commerce/science hit, as they maximize hammer output.

If that's the case then they need rebalanced so the AI can be rebalanced. The hits to happiness/commerce/science are the downfall of the AI keeping up.

Hey, isn't this the mod with all the trade routes that goose commerce and all the religions that goose happiness, that just require hammers to take advantage of? Thought so.

I guess I don't have the Trade route/religion problems that you seem to have. Everything as far as I know requires hammers to take advantage of. And I don't see them as being problematic. Different points of view I think on this one.

JosEPh

Bezhukov · Aug 2, 2009

JosEPh_II said:
I guess I don't have the Trade route/religion problems that you seem to have. Everything as far as I know requires hammers to take advantage of. And I don't see them as being problematic. Different points of view I think on this one.

JosEPh

Um, goose means, roughly, boost, so no, I'm not having trade route/religion problems. RoM has more than enough of both. I actually think the more the better, but if the AI doesn't get to play, it's not so much fun.

JosEPh_II · Aug 2, 2009

Agreed.

JosEPh

alireza1354 · Aug 3, 2009

Isotope said:
I know it's ridiculous but you could partly implement one of Spore mechanics.

I mean, once researched certain very late techs related to spacial traveling and planet colonization and approved a new choice of UN (among the lines of Earth Unification), the map changes to a similar of Final Frontier and you start controlling only the Solar system. All units and buildings change and you start only with some primitive space ships and basic infrastructure on Earth and Mars. As you colonize new systems, these sooner or later separate from you and form other nations regardless of wether you activated revolutions mod or not, reached certain point, this separatist mechanic is desactivated once you researched certain techs or have addopted certain civics (like Hive Mind or Integalactic Federation, etc...) .
Basically some kind of merging with Final Frontier.
As another idea:
There could be two maps: Earth map and Spatial map. Different Earth civs can build spaceships and colonize other planets whilst Solar System is considered neutral territory. Taking it even further, each planet system could have one map for the most habitable planet and other planets could be considered just colonies without sufitient territory to build cities, admitting only general infrastructure.

Very cool idea, but I doubt people would want to start to work on such a project

zappara · Aug 4, 2009

Since the amount of modmods has exploded I got hard time tracking down everything added to the RoM so I'll have to make a little request for RoM modmodders. As you know RoM uses now MLF loading control files and that module directories have to be included in them or the modules are not loaded. So if you have made any modules that require adding new folder options to MLF files, could you please specify in this thread the names of folders that should be added to main mod MLF files.

MLF control file Path: (example 'Modules\Custom Civilizations')
New MLF folder option: (the folder name that your modmod uses)

With this info I can add support for your modmods by default to RoM v2.8.

AAranda · Aug 4, 2009

Glassoid said:
How about a fantasy version of RoM.

Adding superheroes , or great heroes from antiquity.

I know some other guy was trying, to do that, but I feel the tech tree is so complete now that these units could be added. Once the requirement for the technology which enable these units, they could be built or the buildings could be built or they spawn like GPs or GGs except they have combat abilities,super abilities compared to their peers.

vincentz · Aug 4, 2009

zappara said:
MLF control file Path: (example 'Modules\Custom Civilizations')
New MLF folder option: (the folder name that your modmod uses)

With this info I can add support for your modmods by default to RoM v2.8.

Right now i'm using modules/projects/vincentz and as projects is already in the main mlf i dont think further is needed from my side. Though if it doesnt slow down the system I'd like Modules/Vincentz to be added, so I can eventually move my mods there

Code:

				<Module>
					<Directory>Vincentz</Directory>
					<bLoad>1</bLoad>
				</Module>

AAranda · Aug 4, 2009

zappara said:
Since the amount of modmods has exploded I got hard time tracking down everything added to the RoM so I'll have to make a little request for RoM modmodders. As you know RoM uses now MLF loading control files and that module directories have to be included in them or the modules are not loaded. So if you have made any modules that require adding new folder options to MLF files, could you please specify in this thread the names of folders that should be added to main mod MLF files.

MLF control file Path: (example 'Modules\Custom Civilizations')
New MLF folder option: (the folder name that your modmod uses)

With this info I can add support for your modmods by default to RoM v2.8.

Here's mine :
<Module>
<Directory>AAranda</Directory>
<bLoad>1</bLoad>
</Module>

And a couple of other things:

1)It has been said a few times by now , but AI must really be redirect. So many complaint about leaders keeping obsoletes civics , and so many about AI still playing BTS while we play RoM. I could have solutions for both , if you are interested
2)There's to many modmods , and people use to play a lot of thems , making difficult to set everything up to play with all that they want ... maybe you shall try those modmods and include wathever you want to the main RoM mod

Above all , thanks a lot for this marvellous plattform you made for us all

vincentz · Aug 4, 2009

AAranda said:
2)There's to many modmods , and people use to play a lot of thems , making difficult to set everything up to play with all that they want ... maybe you shall try those modmods and include wathever you want to the main RoM mod

I strongly disagree. I enjoy very much to be able to pick and choose which additions I want to play with. For example : I think there is more than enough religions in the game already. They are very powerfull, and if one civ gets 2 or 3 it can quickly become overpowering IMO (keyword: IMO). on the other hand I'm quite sure some would dislike the 15! (yep fifteen) medieval corporations (guilds) that I added, while others prefer/dislike the diplomatics/civics afforess made etc etc. I think the organisation steps Zappara made for modmods are a step in the right direction, so people more easely can flavour their own RoM. Maybe its because I sit on a computer that dates back to the early stone age, and is on the brink of not being able to play rom if much more is added (im crying virtual tears for not being able to run with zapparas megapack and QuibinGs unit pack (please make <light> versions

), but I really enjoy flavouring my RoM (i guess thats why i started modding in the first place).
It also prevents the modmodder for optimizing/developing his mod if it gets to be a part of RoM, but that is a completely different story (where my Gamefonts and Afforess Realistic diplomacy fits

)

On the compability part I strongly recommend to make Modpacks as both Jooyo, Afforess and myself has done. It makes it a lot easier for the user (and the modder actually. I find it much easier just to update 1 mod instead of the 9 separate mods

)

primordial stew · Aug 4, 2009

1 suggestion for 2.8 is to increase the Etruscan's upkeep costs some. They only have 1 leader, and he is organized (-50% upkeep). Then their UB has -40% instead of the regular -25% upkeep. With this it's easy for form massive empires with them. Perhaps Lars shouldn't get organized, but something else.

NBAfan · Aug 4, 2009

I strongly disagree. I enjoy very much to be able to pick and choose which additions I want to play with. For example : I think there is more than enough religions in the game already. They are very powerfull, and if one civ gets 2 or 3 it can quickly become overpowering IMO (keyword: IMO). on the other hand I'm quite sure some would dislike the 15! (yep fifteen) medieval corporations (guilds) that I added, while others prefer/dislike the diplomatics/civics afforess made etc etc. I think the organisation steps Zappara made for modmods are a step in the right direction, so people more easely can flavour their own RoM. Maybe its because I sit on a computer that dates back to the early stone age, and is on the brink of not being able to play rom if much more is added (im crying virtual tears for not being able to run with zapparas megapack and QuibinGs unit pack (please make <light> versions ), but I really enjoy flavouring my RoM (i guess thats why i started modding in the first place).
It also prevents the modmodder for optimizing/developing his mod if it gets to be a part of RoM, but that is a completely different story (where my Gamefonts and Afforess Realistic diplomacy fits )

I strongly agree with vincentz's statement. :agree:

AAranda · Aug 4, 2009

Glassoid said:
All 404d :-|

Also how do I enable the change leader ctrl shift L on Rom 2.7 cus it doesn't work anymore.

Right
Have a look at the civs in the first post of this thread then
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=326121

darkedone02 · Aug 4, 2009

try to make multi-core support for your mod XD

you enlarged the tech tree, made many roads, and buildings. I think it's time to make some economical stuff, such as guilds, corporations, industrial improvement, and other things. I wish we have a crafting monopoly, and for us peaceful people, I wish we could buy out a neighboring city when culturing is slow. so since you expanded far but you have not yet done major add-on's to economy.

I just hope that there was more performance stuff to help quad core and weak single core computers out as well. something to help speed up the game then suffering from lag before medieval.

Xionn · Aug 4, 2009

Zappara, for the future era a few techs are left out that should be in the game. Early static holograms already exist, but dynamic holograms still are yet to be invented. This could be an idea for the future era.

AAranda · Aug 4, 2009

darkedone02 said:
you enlarged the tech tree, made many roads, and buildings. I think it's time to make some economical stuff, such as guilds, corporations, industrial improvement, and other things. I wish we have a crafting monopoly, and for us peaceful people, I wish we could buy out a neighboring city when culturing is slow. so since you expanded far but you have not yet done major add-on's to economy.

Many of that things already exist or are in process
You can have a look at Vincentz corporations mod , and try his unfinished guilds mod
You ca also have alook to my corporations mod at this link : http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12867

AAranda · Aug 4, 2009

vincentz said:
I strongly disagree. I enjoy very much to be able to pick and choose which additions I want to play with. For example : I think there is more than enough religions in the game already. They are very powerfull, and if one civ gets 2 or 3 it can quickly become overpowering IMO (keyword: IMO). on the other hand I'm quite sure some would dislike the 15! (yep fifteen) medieval corporations (guilds) that I added, while others prefer/dislike the diplomatics/civics afforess made etc etc. I think the organisation steps Zappara made for modmods are a step in the right direction, so people more easely can flavour their own RoM. Maybe its because I sit on a computer that dates back to the early stone age, and is on the brink of not being able to play rom if much more is added (im crying virtual tears for not being able to run with zapparas megapack and QuibinGs unit pack (please make <light> versions ), but I really enjoy flavouring my RoM (i guess thats why i started modding in the first place).

I'm not talking about adding to the main RoM body all the modules or most of them.Of course we all like to chose what to add and what not , but even when the new modular system easy that way , this is still a pain for many people
What a mean is that i have around 10000 downloads of my mods in just 30/35 days , mostly buildings , corporations and religions mods , and that's because RoM is big enough to NEED , at least , more corporations , wonders and religions
Not talking about mines , just using them because i have the downloads facts.
Wonders can be weighted , choosen , discards or adds others but the national wondermovies is something that everybody likes , so , why not merge?
Many things have been added from BTS , many resources , but no corporations to work them. Again not talking about mines , talking about what can be easily merged , as them are there yours or mines , just a matter to choose , discard or add . I've around 300 downloads in 10 days , similar to you i suppose , that makes 600 , why not add to RoM?
We have many religions in RoM , but we lack of moderns , africans and others very representative included in my religions mod. The point of view i add using differents bonuses to each religion can be shared or not , but it can be rewrite at will easily and there can be added to RoM just the religions wanted , not all of them. I've 600 downloads in 10 days , why not add ?
Reality is that many people using RoM don't ever use a modmod , because they see it complicated and just wait to Zappara to add what he think is better. I know because that's what i did for 2 years , before starting moding learning even how to open a HTML file. I had problems even installing simples modules , so i run from eberything and waited for the addon
And that's what the most of the people do , that's why i think the adds would be necessary
And some AI reeducation too

DRJ · Aug 4, 2009

AAranda said:
Reality is that many people using RoM don't ever use a modmod , because they see it complicated and just wait to Zappara to add what he think is better. I know because that's what i did for 2 years , before starting moding learning even how to open a HTML file. I had problems even installing simples modules , so i run from eberything and waited for the addon
And that's what the most of the people do , that's why i think the adds would be necessary

I confirm this point of view, I did consumed RoM the same way a long time.
On the other hand, there should be two things:

-A base RoM version 2.8 for example, which has all 'established' and tested ModMods included in unloaded module folder (or better: included in the loaded module folder as I would enable them the sec I play RoM 2.8 the first time^^)

-A organized ModMod Database (as Zap allready started!),
in which there is a frequently updated, downloadable merged archive (rar/zip) version of all ModMods listed in the Database.
Huge sized modmod components should be presented in a seperate pack, though.

On the other hand, if RoM includes the huge ModMods and gets 500 MB large, it wouldn't be a prob for me, the lesser downloads the better.

And btw.: the larger RoM gets, the closer I feel to Civ 5...

JosEPh_II · Aug 4, 2009

Yeah what DRJ said!

I will always want a "Core" RoM with options to load or unload the "extras".

JosEPh

Afforess · Aug 4, 2009

AAranda said:
RoM is big enough to NEED , at least , more corporations , wonders and religions

I agree with Aaranda. RoM does need more Corporations and and Wonders. I think the amount of religions a game starts with should scale based on the map size. Small maps could have 4-5 religions, whereas large or huge maps could have 13-15 religions.

Reality is that many people using RoM don't ever use a modmod , because they see it complicated and just wait to Zappara to add what he think is better.

It's a sad fact. Even though Modules have become very easy to install, I think we still scare some people away. Also, some people don't even know RoM forums exist, so they just download vanilla RoM and never check for addons. It seems to me that it is the same ~250 people who are downloading the modmod's, even though 1000's download RoM. Some Modmod's should start being added to RoM by default. And I don't just mean the "Unloaded Modules" section, because only the people that download addon's in the first place would ever look in the Rise of Mankind folder anyways. The one's that are added should be older, stable, and well liked modules. Newer one's should have to wait a few weeks so that everything can be tested and balanced.

Version 2.8 discussion

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