Very complex game for beginners?

[vinstafresh]

I'm a civ2/civ3 veteran, but absolutely no genius in this field, I just love the game. I'm a little concerned of newcomers though:

With the addition of religion and great people and the new strategies attached to these concepts, will this game be a bit too complex for newcomers to understand? I can imagine that all these features will scare off people trying this game for the first time, despite of all the user-friendly mouse-overs.

I think it's a great game and a great effort and I have rarely seen such a leap forward with added new features and polished old ones, but new people will just see an unlimited amount of stuff to take into account while playing. What are your thoughts about this?

 

[Cyberian]

Anybody played the tutorial yet? I didn't. Maybe it helps regarding that problem... it should if it is a good one.

 

[Jeffrey]

It seems like any other Civ game to me. Despite there being a ton of things to do, it's introduced and used in a very gradual way.

 

[RIT Beast]

You do bring up a good point vinstafresh, I've dabbled in all the civ/AC games and I was completely overwhelmed my first game, and my second I'm starting to get. The one thing this Civ has going for it is that many things work "the way they should" or the way you'd expect. It might actually help newcomers.

And I ran the creepy-sid-meier-ghost-in-the-machine tutorial. It was mildly informative, but didn't cover nearly enough. Needs more explanation for why you'd do something.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

I think your right, which is why there are so many difficulty levels. A beginner can play settler and make 10,000 mistakes and still at least get to the end of the game, probably winning it on score. It's not a game for everybody, but a lot of people see the depth to it and become fanatics. Also, even if you haven't played civ before, most people who would consider the game have played some kind of strategy game and hence aren't completely oblivious to some of how the game works. You could go through the game not knowing how half the stuff works and still enjoy it. I'm not trying to compare the games, but if a new civ player has tried warcraft or master of orion or age of empires or command and conquer then some of the building improvements and units and prioritizing will be familiar. Now, if a person is brand new to videogames period, then I could see this game being a little too overwhelming even with the tutorial.

 

[EricJames]

I played the tutorial for the hell of it, and I personally think beginners won't have much problem at all getting started. At settler difficult they'll implement the basics and after winning and moving up a difficult, could easily develop strategies. There are not TOO many concepts to learn.

 

[Marcus_Aurelius]

I found the tutorial helpful because I was a Civ Fanatic going back to the Civ 1. It helped me get up to speed on how Civ 4 worked. But I watched some first time Civ players do the tutorial and it was sadly lacking. The interface was couterintuitive (the constant clicking continue was a pain) and Sid leaves more questions than he answers. But I think it's essential to suffer through it.

 

[MosquitoE]

I would agree with previous posters. There are many layers of complexity, but it can still be enjoyable at lower levels with less foreknowledge or experience.
You can play the easy levels and build all the wonders and destroy the weak AI and have fun. Then as you move up difficulties you need to learn new strategies to be able to compete.

 

[weevil]

Much of the micromanagement we all know so well from the previous civilization games has been removed in civ 4 which i guess makes it easier for people who aren't familiar with all the game mechanics?

 

[Kikimalaka]

I finished my first game last night (Ceasar thank you) at Settler level with only India as the AI on a Standard map. I have not played Civ since my son was born in 2002. I made a lot of mistakes, but Settler level is VERY forgiving. A good level to use to learn.
Yes, a lot of new stuff for sure. But Settler lets even a beginner have fun!

 

[arwen]

I'm no beginner, been playing ever since CivI came out (although in a very recreational mode) but I'm still struggling to comprehend this one. I think the complexity and all the new concepts take time. I remember going from Civ2 to Civ3 wasn't easy either. The tutorial doesn't nearly cover enough and the book-guide just gets you started.
But the easier levels give you every opportunity to try-and-err all you want without being punished straight away. After my few first games, I'm still trying to figure out how religion works and which civics I like and sorts. I'm afraid I'll be in "training mode" for quite some more games to come. It's good to see these forums fill up with great tips.

As for beginners: most new games are quite complex. Ever tried to explain Simcity 4 to a first-timer?
As for myself: I'm quite surprised to look back and see how much Civ3 has "grown" on me, so most of the work goes into adjusting to all the things that work differently. I should try to start up Civ2 one of these days. That probably will be weird again too.

 

[Mech]

civ3 was my first civ game,I was able to pick it up after loosing 2 warlord games i was able to win consistantly in regent and monarch after that.the tutorial did not tell evrything but the civiclopedia was a big help.learning civ might be a bit tough for people who dont like to loose though.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

civ3 was my first civ game,I was able to pick it up after loosing 2 warlord games i was able to win consistantly in regent and monarch after that.the tutorial did not tell evrything but the civiclopedia was a big help.learning civ might be a bit tough for people who dont like to loose though.

That last bit is absolutely key. I'm one of those people, but I learned more about civ3 by jumping from regent to emperor and getting whooped a couple times then I ever did in the dozens of games before that. The things I did in desperation and how much more effort I put into it when the outcome was in doubt were enormous. All that being said it's still hard for me to start a game where I'm more likely to get beat then win, but there is a saying about learning from your losses and it's definitely true of civ.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

I recently got my roommate addicted to this game, and he has no prior experience with the Civilization series. Actually, I'd even go a step further and say he doesn't even like turn-based games. But he picked up on all the concepts very quickly and is now very good at it. Now we play multiplayer non-stop.

I would add though that he is definitely a gamer. So games in general come easy for him. But as far as the general non-gaming public goes, I'd probably say yeah, Civ IV is a little overwhelming.

But this game is the perfect example of why I'm a PC gamer. You can't get depth and complexity like this on a console gaming system. I love it. And the fact that my action-driven roommate like this game speaks a lot of it's quality.

 

[oddroot]

I'm not sure what to say about the difficulty getting into the game... I've played all the Civs to date, lots of Civ 1, and lots of Civ3 and it's expansions.... I thought the tutorial was crap to be honest, but that is an experienced player trying to glean something new from it. I thought it ended too early.

As to the difficulty of the game, I decided to get the wife to play a game of civ 3 with me. Aside from a constant stream of questions, she never got frustrated with the interface, and I have to assume that it made sense to her... I think we played 2 games of civ 3 together, and she has been just as addicted as myself to Civilization 4.

She seems to be doing fine, we played the first game together, and since we've done a couple solo games each... She's not much of a gamer, but seems to be having a good enough go of it.

 

[snepp]

The tutorial is awful, I feel sorry for incoming new players.

 

[WuphonsReach]

The tutorial is awful, I feel sorry for incoming new players.

The tutorial isn't that bad. I'm a brand new Civ4 player and I found it useful for when I got tired of reading the manual. While not the best tutorial out there, it's not horrid.

Biggest complaint I had during the tutorial was there were times when I tried to do something ahead of the script. Instead of letting me do that or telling me "you can't do that yet", it just sat there mute until I clicked "Continue" on Sid's window. Then it let me do the action that I had been attempting.

(It probably helped that I've played MOO1 and MOO2 in the past, so a TBS like Civ4 wasn't a total shock. Bluff and bluster still serve as adequate methods of diplomacy.)

 

[Ranos]

I've played Civ - Civ3 + SMAC so I knew the basics, but since some things have changed from Civ 3 - 4, all of the "experienced" players have to learn too. The only advantage an experienced player has is the basic knowledge of the game. All of the advance concepts of the game have changed and forced us to adapt. If the experienced player can learn it, so can the newbs.

 

[Belfran]

I aggree with the Original Poster.

I am one of those beginners and am currently having a hard time trying not to research EVERY tech, I feel I need them all. Also, I've been playing on Warlord, and I haven't one a single game. I'm stubborn and proud, but after two weeks (and some stuff learned) I guess I'll lower the difficulty.

The game is easy to get into but has many layers to it and many subtleties.

It didn't help that I read Sulla's walkthrough and he made it sound so easy!

 

[Roger_Mellie]

Although I haven't done for about 12-18 months, I used to play Civ3 a quite a bit so I understand the general principal and mechanics of the game. I did the tutorial and it wasn't long before I'd "won" and Sid bloody disappeared!

I'm lucky to have the past experience because I would have been mighty pissed off if I had no previous knowledge of the game.