Very Fun & Challenging Deity Map

[BornInCantaloup]

I've tried this map as well and found it very enjoyable. I disagree with the statements above that say the map is poor. Some thoughts:

Spoiler :

- Being Creative, starting with Agriculture and having camp+pasture resources in BFC (settling inland, on the sugar, is the right move) supports a Hunting -> Animal Husbandry -> Writing opening (fast Library, fast Scientist);
- Two gems in the west justify to self-research Iron Working. This basically negates the downside of starting so close to the jungle. "Just" need a sufficient amount of workers.
- Over-abundance of Calendar resources seems to justify a Mathematics bulb with the first Scientist. Even more so since one might be cramped for worker turns (aka few cottages in Amsterdam, hence little use for an Academy). If you can trade for Marble, that's the pie over the cherry (Mausoleum of M.).

It's a matter of taste but I find this tech path very cool.
The Mathematics bulb is VERY handy to help with RExing and so are Willem's traits. There is, actually, quite a lot of land to grab if you put some effort into it.
With enhanced chops, one can skip Slavery for much longer than normal and save a lot of maintenance (better REx).
When to revolt into Slavery is a tricky question. It's probably best to wait until after most forests have been chopped, after most workers/settlers have been trained and only when one starts focusing on Granaries. Tech-wise, that might be around the time Player gets Currency.

The risk of being DoWed in the BCs is quite high but that "just" means one should slowly grow a garrison of Archers/Axemen in a frontline city.

I've got no save/screenies to offer but I may replay the opening. Maybe even try to complete the map, provided I take some civving time.

 

[Grashopa]

BIC, please do take some civ time I've been trying to kick my addiction but fell off the wagon today. Just settled the second city and yeah this map isn't really poor, and looks like it can be a lot of fun.

 

[pepe26]

BIC, nice to see some more people have a go at it... werent it for my weak diplo skills, I might have been able to get somewhere with this

where you able to grab both gems?

 

[BornInCantaloup]

BIC, please do take some civ time I've been trying to kick my addiction but fell off the wagon today. Just settled the second city and yeah this map isn't really poor, and looks like it can be a lot of fun.

Ah! What couldn't peer pressure make one do?
But I see where you're pointing at. You're thinking about that game, aren't you? Don't worry, I won't lose those saves.

BIC, nice to see some more people have a go at it... werent it for my weak diplo skills, I might have been able to get somewhere with this

where you able to grab both gems?

The 2 gems are a sure grab if you plant your 2nd city there. I recommend the reading of the article "The Curious cat: city maintenance explained" if you go for such moves at EMP+ level. That's in the War Academy, Game Mechanics section.
In a nutshell, close cities should be <4,5 tiles away from your capital. Further ones should be <9 tiles or, if they really have tremendous value, <13,5 tiles away from your palace.
Here, you can grab both gems by settling within a distance of 9 tiles (aka 2gpt for distance maintenance). Very manageable price considering the tiles you gain and the blocking value of such a city.

@ Diplo: is hardest to manage in the BCs. Few trades, no begging function, no shared civics, no open border bonuses, etc. Good relations are built up over time.
That early, you must rely on shared religion but that won't work with every leader (might work with Monty but Shaka or Stalin aren't interested).
So, sometimes you're left counting on RNG kindness and military preparations.


By the way, I went overboard in my last post by saying a straight Writing beeline was doable. Inserting The Wheel and maybe even Pottery (discounts!) ain't a bad idea. Only thing of importance for an early Mathematics bulb is that Writing should be researched by the time your capital resumes growth after building the initial workers/settlers.


EDIT:
T18, planning a western land grab with distance maintenance in mind:

Spoiler :

 

[pepe26]

had another go at it, got declared on by shaka once again in 1280BC

 

[BornInCantaloup]

had another go at it, got declared on by shaka once again in 1280BC

Aye, that just might happen.
If it's a weak DoW and you're somewhat ready, it might not matter much (unless you're dogpiled); you might even extort techs/money. Otherwise, and this is much more likely for pre-1000BC DoWs, it might spell doom on your civilization.

Crucial point, I suppose, is to oversee the AIs unit spam. If you detect more than a swordman in a frontline city, you need to sacrifice some economy to prepare your defence. Easier said than done, sure. Slavery helps. Archery is a must if you couldn't connect metal.


I've tried again the super-plan p) I outlined above and failed miserably. Couldn't reproduce it, so... probably some luck was involved. I'll try again from saturday onward. No time before.

Mini-tip for REx on IMM+:
Barb cities spawn very early in the most attractive city locations. If you don't have an early strategic resource (capital's BFC or 2nd city; 3rd city at the latest), then your military might be best used preventing such cities from spawning (station 2- tiles from top locations). That is rather than, say, fogbusting against units, or exploring far away.
Settlers quite cost effective when it comes to acquiring new cities.

 

[pepe26]

shaka is just THE worst little player hater in the game... I cant even say how many freaking times this cocksooker has spoiled a really nice game for me. often its just too frustrating to start over again. wikipedia doesnt even make him out as such a bad guys, why did sid make him soooo very evil?!

 

[BurN]

I actually thought this was a game with marble and wanted to do a culture game.

Spoiler :

Didn't take long before I realised I loaded another start. But went for culture anyways as soon as it became clear everyone except hatty was going buddhist. As soon as I got alpha I started gifting techs to AI's to prevent dow. I also gifted Stallin a city.

Initially I only got 5 city's but with iron and some chops I managed to take a barb city. Yay.

I played this quick and kind of badly tbh. My game wasn't very interesting. Managed to get Lib-PP at 450AD. Only got one GS which I used to bulb phil. It became a bit of a thriller at 1090AD because Charly decided to go conf. Stallin came to the rescue by capping him.

1685AD victory (Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht)

Spoiler :

 

[pepe26]

wow, you managed to achieve cultural vic with no marble... im amazed. maybe im just to noob to get it but that seems like quite a nice job considering pre 1700AD victory

 

[BornInCantaloup]

Well, I've tried and failed again (dogpiled!)
Maybe I've been too greedy on this dangerous map. Stretching the Empire makes it less defensible.
There were split religions in my first attempt as well, which made things far easier/secure. Didn't have such luck in other attempts.


@ Culture win :
I suspect BurN could trade 2 resources for marble from Stalin...

 

[Manco Capac]

BIC is happy to be dogpiled. No quarter for those AI's.

There were split religions in my first attempt as well, which made things far easier/secure. Didn't have such luck in other attempts.

I'm starting to hate the random effects of religion as on deity, the effects are tremendous and makes the game from player variegates largely from another one.

 

[pepe26]

ya no sh*t man, also the rate of expansion and the path of expansion varies greatly sometimes

 

[Manco Capac]

yeah, I state obvious.

As regards AI expansion, I clearly remember shakabrade's first game on forums called Whipping Paradise and I got a ultra lucky barb city spawn ~T25 and on top of that, I could worker steal a barb worker because I was roading up to the second city and a defender warrior was passing by.

Yeah, they are a lot of random variants and deity just exacerbates that.


EDIT: Let's be frank; I admit I'm a bit frustrated of my attempt because Stalin got early longbows. Because of that ultimate religious lovefest, the tech went up and that brought Stalin to survive my HA onslaught. While PeteJ saw Stalin much weaker techwise and IIRC, religions were aiding a bit that.

On a forum game just like here, it doesn't matter much as we play to learn how to spouse the situation, but on a competition game, sometimes, critical moments can be devastating. Still, I see people winning albeit of the circumstances, so that's a typical unfounded ranting of mine.

 

[BurN]

Well, I've tried and failed again (dogpiled!)
Maybe I've been too greedy on this dangerous map. Stretching the Empire makes it less defensible.
There were split religions in my first attempt as well, which made things far easier/secure. Didn't have such luck in other attempts.


@ Culture win :
I suspect BurN could trade 2 resources for marble from Stalin...

Yes, I think as long as you don't get a dow from Shaka the game is very winnable. Probably the safest route is not to expand N/W at all. In my game Shaka went for Monty, that's the roll of the dice.

I didn't see marble up for trade but as said I was playing rather quick, I missed it. I just had NE in The Hague.

 

[Doshin]

I finally broke down and gave this one a go

Spoiler :

1630 AD, Domination on the second attempt. In my first game Shaka rushed me in 1280 BC. It would have been ok if I'd settled on one of the Plains Hills... but of course I was greedy and tried to secure the Bananas. On the second attempt, I settled on the PH only to watch Shaka march across the map to declare against Hatchet (to whom he eventually capped ).

Anyway, initial tech path was Hunting-AH-TW-Pottery-Mining-BW-Writing-Masonry-Archery. I wanted to build the Mids, but Charlie beat me to it.

I expanded to five cities, and was lucky enough to capture two barb cities with Chariots (reaching 10 XP for the Heroic Epic... and two free Workers ). At some point or other, Stalin was willing to trade Marble for my Stone, so I built the Parthenon and TGL. Later I built UoS, to boost all the AP buildings.

Stalin DoW'd in 1 AD. Charlie DoW'd in 980 AD. I bought peace with Stalin for CoLs. Charlie's attack was stopped by the AP.

In 1040 AD I Lib'd Rifling:

I'm fairly sure I could have gone all the way to Assembly Line. I was the only civ with Paper at the time.

I declared against Stalin in 1170 AD:

The initial attack pretty much eviscerated his stack. Stalin capitulated shortly before I reached his capital, giving me the shrined Christian Holy City (+ MoMa) as part of the deal.

After that, I went from Stalin ---> Charlie ---> Hatchet/Shaka. Monty was bribed against me. I cap'd Hatchet, wiped out Monty, and cap'd Shaka for Domination:

 

[pepe26]

how the hell did noone go for lib earlier? was everybody and their grandma in war with each other and does war actually delay the AI teching enough to allow for those kind of sick lib picks?!