[BTS] Victoria Emperor Continents

[southquote]

Hi guys, I am looking for some help to improve my game. My goal is to win a military victory on Contintents. That will go a long way to improving my game since it will require me to break out earlier than I have been. I have been winning via Domination on Pangea or Space on Continents on Emperor, but no Domination wins on Continents.

Settings:

• Continents with all the standard selections
• Standard Size (6 AIs)
• Emperor Difficulty
• No Tribal Villages
• No Random Events
• Normal Speed
• Leader: Victoria

Spoiler The Start :

There is a lot of food here, and Victoria starts with Fishing, which helps with the seafood. I will move the warrior NW, but it is hard to see how I would not SIP. Research will be Agg --> BW to start. I will definitely be whipping a lot in London.

 

[SittinDown]

Here's my thoughts on SIP -

• Not a big fan of that much ocean in the capital - if you move inland, another site can use the clam later.
• See what's inland with the warrior first, and consider settling inland 1W so you can grab more green river to cottage later.
• When I'm financial, I usually try to maximize green river tiles to cottage and go for a Buero cap.
• You've got forests, and food, and no hills, so BW is a priority to get hammers going. Consider chopping a few settlers.
• That green hill NW might have something good on it - maybe metal.
• Probably would tech Agri -> BW, and build worker first.

If you want to micro a little more - don't pick a tech until turn 5, so you can get some researching bonuses from meeting more AI's. (5% per AI met who has the tech already).

 

[lymond]

Not sure I would move in this case. You have non-sea food and worker actions immediately, so worker first is warranted. Not a typical slower "coastal" start. Warrior move may change that, but I'd be inclined to SIP here if nothing presents itself. I understand the desire for more river tiles in cap, but a couple of more here don't seem worth the move. You potentially have two city spots that can be settled with insta-trade routes, and GLH may be an option. WBs can be chopped out later - no urgency for them.

AH>BW definitely and go for a fast first settler at size 2 or 3.

 

[Swordnboard]

Ditto Lymond's advice. Moving the capital for more green cottages is a "later" move, which is significantly trumped by the "now" of seafood resouces and not having to wait a turn to settle.

Agree with Worker-first and Agriculture->BW.

 

[southquote]

Thanks for the advice. I tried not picking a tech until T5, but I had not met an AIs by then.

I played to T15 (when worker completed):

Spoiler T15 :

Moved Warrior NW, found nothing then SIP. The issue I had with moving inland is that if I move 1 space inland, I have 3 ocean tiles that I cannot improve with a lighthouse. Moving more than 1 space inland costs several turns since everything is forest.

Here is the map after Turn 15:
- Met Pacal, who has founded Hindu. He came from the West of my capital
- The map looks really bare of resources and has significant tundra and desert. This will be tough...
- Currently thinking city 2 will need to share at least the clam, maybe the corn too...

 

[SittinDown]

Cool - SIP seems good based on what the warrior revealed. You're right about that land..... not too good. There's gotta be some metal or horses sitting around, I'd think.

I'd scout up the coast at this point - maybe take a peak at the PH to the NW of that warrior - maybe you'll get lucky and find a gold / ivory spot.

I'd probably farm the corn first then mine the grass hill, since after the farm is done, you won't have anything else the worker can do yet. Probably build workboat next, since AH is a ways off. Hopefully AH reveals a horse or something. Honestly, when you're imperialistic, a grass mine can be nice for building a settler. It's like a 5F tile.

sharing the clam for city 2 seems right - pending further scouting.

 

[Gumbolt]

Low sea level? Ackkk. Why use that setting?
Local land looks horrible.
Why is the worker not on the corn farming? Reload and move the worker to corn and farm? You don't even have bronze working to chop the forest. Unless you were planning mine first? Even that makes no sense as you want to grow your city to size 2-3 as fast as possible. Possibly whipping a workboat at some point.

 

[southquote]

I did not intend to use low sea level. When I create a new custom game, I see that this option is selected so I must have selected it. I had been noticing there seemed to be a lot more land per civ in Continents, but I guess that was due to low sea level... How did you see that from the saved game? Perhaps I should start a new map with normal sea level?

For the worker, yeah that was a mis-click from taking the screenshot. I did go back and re-play to turn 15 exactly as before, instead moving the worker onto the corn and irrigating.

 

[lymond]

I have 3 ocean tiles that I cannot improve with a lighthouse.

I just want to emphasize something here and that is that your comment is not the reason not to settle inland....at all. Sitting Down is right in that if feasible and with benefit, I prefer to settle cap inland. Hypothetically, say you settle 1W, then the crab still serves as a food resource for the city (just no LH). However, in this case SIP was the best move. Settling 1W and losing a turn was not of benefit.

I played a bit just to get a feel for the map. Indeed some ugly land obviously, and I'd say some other challenges with the layout...low sea level may have had some effect there too. I won't spoil anything otherwise, but will advise to keep your warriors close to home. You appear to have sufficient scouting for now, so use warriors for spawnbusting. In fact, where that warrior stands current is not a bad spawnbust spot for now.

Pretty simple for the worker right now - farm corn, mine hill, and BW should be ready just in time for chops.

Clam is a city and sheep can be another. Clam first for insta-route. Sheep will get route with London border pop later...assuming 1SW of sheep.

Oh..I see what Gumbo is saying when looking at the save. Appears SQ accidentally hit some auto-something button on the worker. Reloading for that is not a problem.

 

[Fippy]

Pic with my opinions

Spoiler :

 

[Gumbolt]

Have a look on the victory condition screen. Says low sea level there.
I started a games yesterday with 800 or so land. The Viking Noble Club game has 918 land. This map has 1300+land. As it is continents it means the AI on other side of pond will expand to 10+ cities. Likely mostly junk cities if this land here is any clue.

Further downside is your continent could have 2-3 AI on it and they will have a lot of land to expand into. Plus barbs will be a bigger issue than normal as they have more area to spawn. So spawn busting here will be important.To find food for cities you may have to explore further afield.

On low sea level settings you really wanted to add 1-2 more AI to compensate for the extra land. I think these settings could raise difficulty by 1 level pending how AI further afield perform. Could we see some AI with 15-20 cities here?

 

[southquote]

I just want to emphasize something here and that is that your comment is not the reason not to settle inland....at all. Sitting Down is right in that if feasible and with benefit, I prefer to settle cap inland. Hypothetically, say you settle 1W, then the crab still serves as a food resource for the city (just no LH). However, in this case SIP was the best move. Settling 1W and losing a turn was not of benefit.

Thanks for the explanation. I think you are saying that early on the only thing that matters are the most powerful tiles (the food resources mainly), and London would still have one crab plus the corn and sheep. Longer term, settling inland makes a strong bureau-cap because it replaces five ocean tiles with inland tiles (some of which are river), even though it reduces the benefits from the remaining ocean tiles?

On low sea level settings you really wanted to add 1-2 more AI to compensate for the extra land. I think these settings could raise difficulty by 1 level pending how AI further afield perform. Could we see some AI with 15-20 cities here?

Well I clearly messed up with the settings (thanks for showing me the obvious place where I can see the settings). I have played a few games with these mistaken settings, and the AI has not gotten to 20 cities, but a few get to 15 or more. The land is usually not this bad. I probably just got an unlucky roll (does it even make sense to have tundra and desert so close?) The Frederick game I posted the other day is also low sea level by mistake. Low sea level probably does not equate to one difficulty harder, maybe a half? In any case, I will play this one since I have the forum's help, although next time I will choose standard settings.

I played on T38.

Spoiler T38 :

As stated early, I restarted to fix my worker mis-click so the scouting along the river is not 100% the same (the fog is slightly different), but I replicated as best I could. I scouted up the coast a bit more and revealed Cow. I also found some Cow, Rice, and Fish to the north. I would like to find a luxury resource to help early growth. Given Lymond's advice, I have not gone too far afield exploring. Since I met Pacal early, hopefully he is close enough to spread Hinduism early (with these low sea level games, I have sometimes had to wait a long time for religion spread).

Chopped two forests for a Setter at size 3 and founded York near the clam. I revolted into slavery as the Settler was traversing. I used the overflow from the chop for a WB for the clam. I founded York to share the Clam and eventually claim the Cow in the outer ring.

Finished Ag + BW + AH. Setting research to Wheel. Unfortunately, neither BW nor AH revealed anything...

I have 42 hammers into another settler in London, but currently building a warrior to grow first. I will grow next turn, and then I can whip the settler and overflow into a worker. Or do I need more warriors first to deal with the upcoming barb problems (especially with no metal or horses yet)?

I will take Fippy's advice and settle near the Sheep for the next city.

 

[Gumbolt]

At size 2 I might build a worker in city 2.

Double settler in capital is never a bad idea. A 2 pop whip here might work from size 4?

Least sea to the east helps limit direction barbs can come from.

3rd city? Below sheep? Or cow/ fish? Getting rice too might of been nice but a big no with no food in first ring.

The problem I have with the above city arrangement is you are on a large land map and could have 4 cities with 2 tiles between each.

 

[Fippy]

I like comparing cities with worker needs,
1 should be fine for London & sheep city combined (advantage of close cities ).
Just need some cottages after sheep for those 2.

Gumbo suggestion with worker at size 2 in York looks goodie, mine & whip when possible.
This one can cover York & fish city north which i think is good (also gets cows into first ring, and York needs no monument).

Would move warrior2 north (forest 2w of fish would be nice), securing that area a bit.
Overall this does not look like a map where you can rely on fogbusting most areas..too much land,
and i would suggest you probably need Archery after Pottery.
Still some time until barbs enter borders.

 

[SittinDown]

* Note: I give second-rate advice. If Fippy / Lymond / Gumbolt disagree with me, you should listen to them.*

I like the Cow-Fish site, but agree, with only 1 worker at this point, you'll slow your cottage timing if you send your only worker far away. Fish + Cow should be a nice site for whipping - it only really needs those 2 tiles to be effective.

Agree this is one of those cases where you're going to need archery, given the lack of other options and lots of land for barb defense, and that you're going to want to fogbust the Cow-Fish site. [Barbs enter borders when the average civ has 3 cities, so watch out after Maya get to 3]

If you're careful with your warriors and avoid low-odds fights, 3 warriors should be enough until after you build the next settler. If you lose warrior #2 while fog busting Cow-Fish, go to plan B. Should be fairly safe for a little bit in the woods until you get an archer.

About AH - I used to grab AH asap, but I've found it sometimes better to wait on it, especially if you don't have cows / pigs to pasture, or if you're expansive and want to get pottery so you can 1-pop whip granaries. I think in this case going AH after BW is ok, but Wheel -> Pottery could also work. I might head to writing after Archery and Pottery.

Longer term, settling inland makes a strong bureau-cap because it replaces five ocean tiles with inland tiles (some of which are river), even though it reduces the benefits from the remaining ocean tiles?

Plus on deity, you can get boxed in fast [when sea levels are normal], so grabbing more tiles is worth considering.

 

[southquote]

Thanks again. A lot of useful thoughts. I played on turn T51 (finished Pottery). I will go for Archery now, but I also have to get Hunting first, which will delay Writing a bit. This game feels odd in that I have not explored much, but I am taking the advice to keep my warriors close to home. I will probably send a warrior or two off to explore soon.

Highlights:
- Found Gold in NW, Horse in SW.
- City 5 probably needs to grab the Rice so I need to explore around that area. That moves me closer to the Gold too, which I think I will need for the happiness boost if not the commerce.
- Already saw one barb archer that died against my warrior (which now has combat II) so I imagine I will start seeing a lot of barbs.
- Following T38, London grew to 4 then whipped a Settler (already had 42 hammers) down to 2 and then whipped again down to 1. Also built a warrior and 2nd WB in the London (with a chop in there due to waiting for wheel). Currently London is building a granary.
- Got the second worker out of York; Nottingham just whipped a WB for the fish.
- Priorities are Granaries in my cities, building a few more warriors for barb defense + exploration and then another settler (Perhaps London at size 4?)

Spoiler T51 Map :

 

[Gumbolt]

Not so sure about roads here. London already has sea trade routes here. It's your northern most city that lacks trades routes.
C2 promo for warrior? I would of gone with Woodsman 1 and 2. Getting a double movement warrior on forest can be very useful. 20%+30% defence for woodmens 1 and 2. Vs 20% from C1/C2. This assumes you fog bust on forest or jungle.
Whipped granary in capital is fine. Maybe use OF for more warriors? Slow building warriors with 1H is painful. That or use chops.

I think you can afford to expand more here. So be planning your next settler. Either after the granary or in another city? You need to explore more land to find food. Gold could be a good city if it has food.

Warrior 2 should be fog busting further north. The city is already fogbusting 2 tiles from it's border.

 

[southquote]

C2 promo for warrior? I would of gone with Woodsman 1 and 2. Getting a double movement warrior on forest can be very useful. 20%+30% defence for woodmens 1 and 2. Vs 20% from C1/C2. This assumes you fog bust on forest or jungle.

Ok good point. I used Woodsman promo for other warriors that killed a few barbs.

I played on to turn 100. I probably made a number of mistakes, and I am not above replaying for the sake of learning. Mainly I think I overwhipped causing my economy to be weak and my cities relatively small.
Here is a rundown:
- Met Mehmed. He seems to be NW and Pacal W. I probably have the Eastern part of the Continent to myself. However, from a first peak, their land looks much better than mine... (I also found a bunch of jungle in the NE to go along with my Tundra and Desert). Opened Borders with both once I got Writing. Still no Hinduism spread.
- Tech: Went Hunting -> Archery -> Writing -> Alphabet. I did Alpha rather than Aesth (or anything else) since in my experience, at least on Emperor, is that I usually reach Alpha well ahead of the AIs and can backfill some important techs. Exactly the turn I got Alphabet, Pacal asked for Writing and I gave it to him for the relations boost. I then traded Alphabet to Pacal for Sailing + Myst (which also got me a +1 Fair and Forthright bonus). Currently going Math --> Currency
- Founded a few cities. Warwick claimed the Gold (+ wheat and eventually sugar) which I really need. Coventry is a decent location (Cow + dry rice). I am thinking Canterbury might have been a mistake. Not much going for it other than dry rice. I would like to settle the Cow + Clam spot next. I need IW to pursue up to the Ivory. Or should I be trying to claim contested land near the border with the AI? However, right now maintenance is killing my economy so I might not want to settle anything...
- I have a GS in London. I plan to use it for Philo bulb, but that seems a ways away...should i go Academy?

Goal now is to wait out some whip anger and grow my cities a bit. I am spending money on troop maintenance which will go away once my cities grow.

Spoiler T100 Map :

 

[unas876]

Looks decent, you can pretty much take this game anywhere.

Immediate things about your game:
Did I count right? Five workers for seven cities?
More workers are required to help new cities become productive. Workers are probably required to secure foreign traderoutes (you could try with a workboat but it's gonna be hard I think there's a barb city blocking the sea in the north at least). You need foreign traderoutes if you get currency, otherwise why get currency in the first place?
Happy cap is an issue, and I suggest you head straight to monarchy after currency.
I don't think you have enough units. With this kind of a layout I'd have looked to have a couple axes out by now. Anything could come at you any turn by now from those areas in the south, but also the jungle in the north. Again: more chopping could have sorted out this problem, and that's why most Deity players would unlikely have this many dry grassland cottages by now.
I would quit settling by now and fix the issue with workers, units and general infrastructure first. You are not in any pressure to settle more and more land right now.
I wouldn't build an Academy with the GS. You don't really have a strong cottage capital. Bulbing Philo later seems more attractive.

Long term CS is gonna be very helpful mainly for irrigation purposes, you got a lot of towns that would benefit a lot from that.

Get TRs with Pacal, he will give you his religion sooner or later. He is unlikely to attack you though even if you stay heathen, so I'd probably wait to see if Mehmed joins that religion as well. If you can all be friends, there is no problem and if you have to side with Mehmed against Pacal, it also shouldn't be a big problem. So the diplo situation looks pretty straight forward.

 

[Gumbolt]

Ivory for happiness? I also see fur.
Not so sure about maths. I would rather grab currency and trade for maths. I appreciate maths gives a discount on currency.
If you plan to use London as a bureau capital I would be running the cottages. Also clear the forest from all those grassland near it.

You may need to whip an archer in coventry. I would certainly put hammers into it this turn.

No ai with monarchy yet!