Victory Condition

[DaveShack]

Fellow citizens, we are at the point where we must decide how we want the game to conclude.

The ideas presented in this discussion include:

• Diplomatic
• Culture (100K)
• Histographic

To be fair, the other victory conditions are being included in the poll. Your choice in this poll should be for the one victory condition you most want to achieve this game.

This poll will remain open for 3 days.

 

[MOTH]

I have voted for culture, but my vote is really for anything except Diplomacy.
I think a 100K culture win will provide us with great challenge as we strugle to get enough culture per turn to get a 2-1 lead over France and prevent other civs from building a space ship.

 

[Chieftess]

If we want 100K culture, then I think we had better start conquering... Or atleast rushing culture. Sure we can get to about 100k in around 95 turns (based on estimates from the saved games), but France is the one with a good deal of culture (surprisingly)...

Using the "pixel plot" method (paint shop pro -- line tool)

144pixels     102pixels
---    		 ---
45619        	X

144x = 4653138
x =~ 32314

France has about 32,314 culture.
We have 46,184. We need a LOT more culture for 100K. Even 100K is misleading, since we still need more than 1/2 the leader.

 

[Cyc]

I voted Culture. Let's push till game's end rather than use the Chairman Vote. This will also give everyone time to put together a format/ruleset for DGVI.

 

[Provolution]

I want to end this asap, hence Diplo. Next game I would go for culture.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Although Cyc bailed out, I may as well stay true to the end.

Histograph Victory

 

[MOTH]

If we want 100K culture, then I think we had better start conquering... Or atleast rushing culture. Sure we can get to about 100k in around 95 turns (based on estimates from the saved games), but France is the one with a good deal of culture (surprisingly)...

Using the "pixel plot" method (paint shop pro -- line tool)

144pixels     102pixels
---    		 ---
45619        	X

144x = 4653138
x =~ 32314

France has about 32,314 culture.
We have 46,184. We need a LOT more culture for 100K. Even 100K is misleading, since we still need more than 1/2 the leader.

In the discussion thread I did some similiar analysis using CRP Suite for the culture estimates. We need to increase our culture per turn by 216 as soon as we can (upcoming wonders account for about 99 of this including gettting research labs in all cities). The remainder means we need to increase our average by about 3 culture per city. Rushing the remaining culture buildings (via unit disband to reduce the cost) will get the rest. This will overcome France's culture before turn 450. If e settle 5-10 additional cities in the gaps (on either continent) and rush culture there then this helps too.

 

[donsig]

My first reaction is to stick with what we chose earlier but Cyc presents a good argument about lettig this one continue while the next is set up. While a histograph victory would do that, a cultural victory sounds more challenging. I'm voting culture and hoping the challenge will not take too much time and energy from the DGVI work that must be done.

 

[MOTH]

My first reaction is to stick with what we chose earlier but Cyc presents a good argument about lettig this one continue while the next is set up. While a histograph victory would do that, a cultural victory sounds more challenging. I'm voting culture and hoping the challenge will not take too much time and energy from the DGVI work that must be done.

I think you are implying that we chose Diplo earlier. This is not true. Histographic edged out Diplo in the last (only?) poll on this matter before now.

 

[Black_Hole]

hmmm culture or histograph....
unforunately since the histograph crowd has split into 2, i think diplo will most likely win...

 

[Cyc]

Yer probably right Black_Hole. I kinda wanted to write this poll.

Although Cyc bailed out, I may as well stay true to the end.

Histograph Victory

DZ, you got me wrong here. This attempt at a Cultural Victory is actually a Histograph Victory pushing Culture. If we do win by Culture, it will be around games end (close to 2050), so it will be just like a Histo. I figured if we're going for the Histo, we might as well have the challenge and authority of a Culture Race. But, like Black_Hole said, because of the way we play this game, the Histo and Culture votes (basically the same thing) will split and Diplo will win. Wasn't it the Three Musketeers that use to say "All for naught and one for null."

 

[DaveShack]

Comments indicate that there is a more fundamental question that this poll is not asking, which is "do you want to finish the game relatively quickly, or keep it going a while?" The people voting for diplo clearly want it to finish quickly, and those voting for histographic / culture want to keep it going for a while.

Many have not voted yet, so it could change dramatically. If there is no clear mandate here I would approve of a new poll with options "end it ASAP" and "keep it going".

Also even if diplo got a resounding win, there would still be another vote on whether to attempt to win on the 1st ballot or not, and instructions would be posted to stop play at the end of the turn before the UN is completed so the situation can be analyzed.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I like it; finally a real goal we have to work hard for !!

Can I have some culture, please daddy ?

 

[Crimso]

I would support a cultural victory if we had been planning for it. But then again, we really haven't been planning for any victory condition.

If the choice comes to finishing the game soon or finishing it much, much later, then I have to go for soon. Histograph is out of the question for many of us because:
- it would continue without having use for any governor positions and half the ministerial positions.
- we would have to invade AI capital cities countless times to stop them from launching space ships, not to mention the territory we will have to conquer when China or whoever goes nuts
-instead of having a progression of history, we'll just go in circles, our interest draining each time around

A cultural victory would mean doing all of this, just for a shorter amount of time. But not short enough for me.

Either we're at our peak now, or we've already reached it, but whatever the case the longer we play the less interested we'll all become. We can finish this soon and have a bitter victory, and use our fustration to create a better DGVI and get on with it, or we can prolong DGV for a handful of agonizing months, where I can bet many of us will not see a point in the game anymore and will leave.

 

[Ashburnham]

I would support a cultural victory if we had been planning for it. But then again, we really haven't been planning for any victory condition.

If the choice comes to finishing the game soon or finishing it much, much later, then I have to go for soon. Histograph is out of the question for many of us because:
- it would continue without having use for any governor positions and half the ministerial positions.
- we would have to invade AI capital cities countless times to stop them from launching space ships, not to mention the territory we will have to conquer when China or whoever goes nuts
-instead of having a progression of history, we'll just go in circles, our interest draining each time around

A cultural victory would mean doing all of this, just for a shorter amount of time. But not short enough for me.

Either we're at our peak now, or we've already reached it, but whatever the case the longer we play the less interested we'll all become. We can finish this soon and have a bitter victory, and use our fustration to create a better DGVI and get on with it, or we can prolong DGV for a handful of agonizing months, where I can bet many of us will not see a point in the game anymore and will leave.

I was on the fence between Diplo or Culture Victory, and I think this argument convinced me. Even if we haven't officially declared that we are going for a Diplomatic victory, we have been moving towards that goal for at least the last month. Changing that goal after we've all finally settled into the idea of a quick finish will most likely take the feeling of "progress" out of the game. And that will only increase the feeling of apathy that seems to have pervaded the DG in the last term or so.

 

[Black_Hole]

Yer probably right Black_Hole. I kinda wanted to write this poll.


DZ, you got me wrong here. This attempt at a Cultural Victory is actually a Histograph Victory pushing Culture. If we do win by Culture, it will be around games end (close to 2050), so it will be just like a Histo. I figured if we're going for the Histo, we might as well have the challenge and authority of a Culture Race. But, like Black_Hole said, because of the way we play this game, the Histo and Culture votes (basically the same thing) will split and Diplo will win. Wasn't it the Three Musketeers that use to say "All for naught and one for null."

looks like we got smashed anyway

 

[Cyc]

looks like we got smashed anyway

Yup. 54% approval is hard to argue with.