[NFP] Vietnam Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 19, 2021.

  1. Pfeffersack

    Pfeffersack Deity

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    I noticed that "two landmasses"-tendency as well when generating a few test maps in the worldbuilder, but if you set sea level to high you get some more variation in coastline shape. I also used a wet/hot climate and old world age to further accentuate the overall theme of the map. And the tropical climate settings also lead to less polar lands, which is nice for playing with the Barbarian mode, as it means less polar-station-like CSs...
     
  2. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

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    To be fair, the wetlands map description does explicitly say that it's a continents map. I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that it generates continents like the continents script.
     
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  3. SandFli

    SandFli Chieftain

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    Among my favourites for sure, but do not forget Vietnams unwritten weakness.
    I played the East Asia map, starting on Ha Long Bay, evident lead. A series of Wars declared by Khmer, resulting in many heroic skirmishes repelled through the thick complex of forests.
    Then, about 200 turns in, the Forest Fires began. Starting up in numerous locations over time and sweeping over almost every tile like the tides, crossing rivers, and reigniting repeatedly.. Continuously.. for 77 turns (so far)! They’ve taken the Capital – and largest city in the game – from 25 Pop to 4, including growth in between. My second city fell from 18 pop to 1, and entered an infinite loyalty loss loop to small neighbouring cities. At least 40 turns were spent repairing districts & buildings in both Cities, yet there isn’t time to repair them all before the next blaze. The humble Builder was the only hope in this fight, so the entire budget was devoted to hiring them, each and every one only to be sacrificed to the flame before they could touch the bark.

    You cannot Harvest burnt Woods until regrowth, nor those treeline trails leading out of your territory. Of course, Forest Fires don’t qualify for international emergencies, so while nearby factions were expecting Gold for losing a couple of Farms to a Volcano, I was instead attacked again, as a now all too easy target, narrowing the movement of builders and units between sword and flame. And despite the excellent Drive Out The Aggressors ability and invincible Voi Chien, my veteran army has no defence against sudden spontaneous combustion on their tile.

    I admit, I've never seen anything like it in any previous game. It would have been safer to drop a nuke around my Capital to obliterate the forests; it couldn’t hope to match the sheer empire crumbling capability of a pristine patch of peaceful woodland. Barbarians? Vesuvius? Try living near trees..

    My advice: Chop as many Woods when playing Vietnam as you would any other Civ. Lowering the risk and range of Forest Fires is another vital consideration in Vietnams City planning puzzle.


    Sure, OK, we know Vietnam can only build districts on mostly combustible terrain, but as the game goes on, even chopping strategic separations between patches of Woods and Rainforest only limits the inevitable problem. It seems as other AI empires cut down all of their Woods & Rainforests for improvements, they are rewarded for this environmental destruction by refocusing every potential Fire into Vietnams borders, because that is where almost every remaining forest feature is now concentrated. So, Vietnam requires far more forests than any other Civ, yet despite all of their abilities and districts relying on them, it is at by far the most risk of fires, and greater spread and loss from fires. Thus, the tranquil Woods, and the ability to plant them early, create more risk to Population, military & civilian units, and, unlike any other Civ, districts and buildings too.

    Vietnam probably doesn't need to be amended with an ability that prevents damage from Forest Fires. But it does raise an issue regarding Civs with bonuses on these Features (Maori, Brazil, etc.), because Woods are far more widespread on the map than other features with the potential to cause Disasters, and can eventually be planted in any Civs territory too. Other disaster-causing tiles can be avoided easily, based on a choice of where to settle, and grant no unique bonuses to any Civ, such as Volcanoes and Coastal Lowlands. Others, like Hurricanes and Blizzards, are based on underlying terrain and most move to another location after 1 turn. Dust Storms last for a finite number of turns. Floods and Droughts too, which can be easily stopped by Buildings. The Forest Fire, however, is limited only by the shape & scale of forest Features, and the regions where they remain, can reignite on returning to recent regrowth, and cause population loss every turn.
    Perhaps there's use for a new Building (like a Flood Barrier), or even an addition to the Preserve, that protects nearby Rainforest & Woods from Fires, or prevents loss of population or property.
     
  4. Francel

    Francel Madam Secretary

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    25–>4, 18–>1? Never seen anything quite like that. I trust you were on max disaster setting? Forest fires are never much issue for me on the default setting. They just stop and regrow over the course of a few turns, and honestly don’t seem super common to begin with.
     
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  5. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    I was playing a TSL Earth Map and in the Amazon, basically a huge group of jungle that you normally wouldn't get on a random map script the fires were non stop for a while. Tiles would just reignite each other. I ended up getting tiles that were giving me 15 production. Now I was Maori, but that is still like 10 fires and they keep spreading until they finally stop. I had disasters at default of 2.
     
  6. Sixty_Three

    Sixty_Three Chieftain

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    In addition to chopping, there are two steps you could take to mitigate the risk of forest fire disasters wrecking the Vietnamese civilisation.

    Woods and rainforest can appear on hilled terrain. But marsh can only be found on flat grassland. I’ve therefore taken to setting the world age to “old” to increase the ratio of marsh : woods/rainforest when playing with Vietnam. This is in addition to fixing the rainfall to “wet”.

    Setting the disaster intensity to zero (minimal) also apparently halves the likelihood of forest fires, according to the online wiki.
     
  7. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    Yes, I saw that. I wasn't surprised, but disappointed. I don't know why Firaxis seem to think this is the #1 map type. The one go I had at Wetlands, it didn't seem all that wet. I have seen huge marsh areas in Primeval maps, but not here. I was expecting the swamp equivalent of the Highlands map. That would be interesting!
     
  8. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    I played Wetlands on wet/temperate and I got an absurd amount of marshes. Which is great because it means a nice increase in prioduction in the long run while you can still chop forests and jungles.
     
  9. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    but there isn't enough water and it hurts to play as Navel civ in highlands map
     
  10. Disgustipated

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    I often try for it when going science victory. Of course I made such a big deal in my post above, but I didn't actually complete it before I achieved victory. :lol: Oh well. I am a wonder wh... (I'm not sure if I can use that word here). It's probably not worth trying in the higher difficulty levels like the above game, it's too hard to get the wonder building great engineers (though amazingly I think I got 3 out of the 4 of them in the above game), and this game I also missed out on Mausoleum. I just didn't have enough charges since Estadio wonder was more important to solve my massive amenity issue from having 25 cities (Egypt also had 25 so I wanted to be competitive with them, though they still edged me out in score).

    And it's also for the reason I built Golden Gate bridge. I certainly didn't need it although I actually built it in a pretty useful location this game. But I wasn't going cultural victory, so didn't need it. It's just pretty.

    As for the wetlands map, the above game I mentioned is a wetlands map. I'm kind of divided about this with Vietnam. I did get the marsh pantheon amazingly, not expected on Immortal difficulty. The pantheon still isn't enough to make them that useful, but was enough to make me reluctant to "chop" the marshes. I did build some districts on them, but not that many. Probably not a map type I'll play again. I did chop them if they were preventing farming triangles though. I kept many around until the end of the game. But 3 food 2 production is nothing to write home about, but could be useful if used in conjunction with preserves (which I admit I did not build enough of this game).
     
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  11. SandFli

    SandFli Chieftain

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    I believe this was with Disaster setting 2, or possibly 3. Every other Civ had no forest left at all, redirecting every possible Fire to me. It was genuinely disastrous, I thought I had been hacked :lol: I took a moment to think and calmly came up with a solution, which was to rage quit. I will say that fighting a War through burning jungles as my cities burned was pretty epic, and simulated a historic cause of population movement, by being forced to take over the Khmer empire to continue.

    Appreciated. I since started a Wetlands map with Vietnam to try out Zombie mode (with Apocalypse), and between the many Marshes and sensible chops, the Fires have been far more tolerable.
     
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  12. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    In fairness, I loaded a few wetlands maps into Worldbuilder and some looked quite decent.
     
  13. Datian

    Datian Warlord

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    Wetlands maps are definitely a boon for Viêtnam !

    However, it is possible to have too much of a good thing : wetlands + Etemenanki are just indescribable. Granted, any civ can have them, not just Viêtnam, but still !
     

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