Virtual Reality. Is it really happening?

The release of Occulus at a six hundred dollar price point this early might be a mistake. That price is too much for most consumers, as the article mentions. The current utility of the device is also in question as there are relatively few products that make good use of virtual reality. This all reminds me of the three-dimensional television sets that came out a few years ago. They are cool, but the high cost combined with the limited amount of media available meant they never hit a sustainable install base.

Of course three-dimensional televisions did not require a reimaging of one's living room the way that virtual reality may. Consider that the typical living room contains things like coffee tables, nightstands, and floor lamps, things that can be hazardous to navigate in a virtual reality headset. An office space where a computer is stored can be even more cluttered. Then you have consideration of the hassle factor of the wires and cords running into the headset. The whole set up is going to be an annoyance. I am not sure that there will be products for the devices that justify those annoyances this early in the product lifecycle.

The current consumer electronic market is one where something gets adopted en masse or dies on the vine. It is hard to imagine virtual reality obtaining widespread adoption. Facebook and Microsoft may have the wherewithal to pour a fair amount of cash into what will likely be a product that might not reach immediate adoption, but I am less certain about HTC and Sony.

It was certainly a good idea for those two to hold off on release of their products for the time being to see how the market treats the new technology. But it also may have been a very bad idea. If Facebook's Occulus works for PCs then I'm not certain why someone would need an additional HTC or Sony product. Certainly the Sony one is the only one likely to work with the PS4, but I'm really doubtful that people will pay twice as much as the PS4 to get an additional device just for that machine.

Microsoft's Hololens augmented reality system occupies a bit of a different space. The commercial applications for augmented reality are a lot broader than those of the virtual reality. In consumer use, Microsoft's product is both easier to use in a crowded existent living room both because the user is less likely to trip over the coffee table and because the device itself doesn't need wires running to the computer.
 
Never tried the cardboard myself. Was it a wow or meh experience or something in the middle?

It was definitely closer to wow than meh. Obviously adding some sort of movement control would be the next generation, but as far as POV goes it was totally immersive.
 
Yeah the Google Cardboard product is also really exciting and avoids the cost, computer, and wire problems that will face Occulus and others.
 
Yeah the Google Cardboard product is also really exciting and avoids the cost, computer, and wire problems that will face Occulus and others.

That's the key. When you can dump out cardboard VR visors by the millions for pennies per copy it becomes worth shooting the VR clips in the first place. I expect to see visors on the back of cereal boxes any day now.
 
If cardboard was wow dont know what a real VR device would be. According to Palmer Luckey (the guy that started this) the rift is to cardboard that quality wine is to murky water.

About the Rift price it is not obviously there for the casual gamer yet. They could have built a cheaper lowest quality device like the previous development kits which were half the price of the consumer version, however (always according to Palmer) that was not the choice of Facebbok/Oculus for a couple of reasons: First to avoid "poisoning the well" with a less than awesome first impresion of VR, second because to move VR games decently you need a fairly high end PC, with at least a GTX 970 and an i5/i7, so the install base was not going to be very laege at first anyway.

I agree about room furniture wires and such issues. However the Rift is intended mainly for being a sitting down or standing up experience not a roomscale experience. That is more for the HTC Vive, which btw has a frontal camera to avoid collisions and a system called chaperone which will show you a virtual wall inside the virtual world when you get too close to real world walls.

About hololens, well it costs 3000$ so if the Rift at 600$ is still to expensive to get a large base install... anyway It is only a tiny square in front of your right eye, nothing to do with the ads Microsoft has shown us. Rather disapointing according to reviewers. You cant start the house from the roof. The technology for fine AR is not there yet.
 
If cardboard was wow dont know what a real VR device would be. According to Palmer Luckey (the guy that started this) the rift is to cardboard that quality wine is to murky water.

About the Rift price it is not obviously there for the casual gamer yet. They could have built a cheaper lowest quality device like the previous development kits which were half the price of the consumer version, however (always according to Palmer) that was not the choice of Facebbok/Oculus for a couple of reasons: First to avoid "poisoning the well" with a less than awesome first impresion of VR, second because to move VR games decently you need a fairly high end PC, with at least a GTX 970 and an i5/i7, so the install base was not going to be very laege at first anyway.

I agree about room furniture wires and such issues. However the Rift is intended mainly for being a sitting down or standing up experience not a roomscale experience. That is more for the HTC Vive, which btw has a frontal camera to avoid collisions and a system called chaperone which will show you a virtual wall inside the virtual world when you get too close to real world walls.

About hololens, well it costs 3000$ so if the Rift at 600$ is still to expensive to get a large base install... anyway It is only a tiny square in front of your right eye, nothing to do with the ads Microsoft has shown. Rather disapointing according to reviewers. You cant start the house from the roof. The technology for fine AR is not still there.

Well, the guy who started it may have an investment to protect. The visual quality "from the cardboard thing" is really just a function of the phone you slap in it. I don't really see a computer feeding a device that size with significantly better image quality than my girlfriend's phone, but I suppose it is possible.
 
Are you serious? :eek:
 
About hololens, well it costs 3000$ so if the Rift at 600$ is still to expensive to get a large base install... anyway It is only a tiny square in front of your right eye, nothing to do with the ads Microsoft has shown us. Rather disapointing according to reviewers. You cant start the house from the roof. The technology for fine AR is not there yet.

The price point will be geared towards institutional customers. Augmented reality has a lot more promise in the commercial and educational fields than virtual reality does. Hololens is not an entertainment product for private consumers, at least not yet (it will be eventually). Yes, it has a ways to go, but it has a great deal more potential than virtual reality.
 
Are you serious? :eek:

Yeah, I was. But since you were clearly shocked I did some research.

Oculus Rift 2160 x 1200 pixels.

Current iPhone 1920 x 1080 pixels.

Rift is better, but hardly eye popping.
 
OK i understand now. Cardboard along with Gear VR are mostly for viewing 360° pics or videos and little more. VR is about 3d contents, like games and such. I am sure your gf cell phone cant move two simultaneous renders of Elite Dangerous at 90 fps.
 
No doubt. I'm gonna go out on a limb though that there is a MUCH bigger market for viewing immersive video than there is for immersive gaming.

<checks limb>

I feel safe.

Key point is that the "fine wine/murky water" comparison is an image quality reference, not an on the fly rendering issue.
 
Well resolution is not all the story. It is small part of it. Latency, smoothness, pixel density, Image sharpeness, lack of screen door effect, field of view, hergonomy, blacks deepness... Not adding movement tracking quality, or that real VR devices have 3d positional tracking too and 3d sound...


But i havent tried any cardboard or rift yet to say the truth. I will get the rift in a couple of months though if nothing cataclismic happens, i will also get a cardboard to see if Palmer has conned me.
 
Well resolution is not all the story. It is small part of it. Latency, smoothness, pixel density, Image sharpeness, lack of screen door effect, field of view, hergonomy, blacks deepness... Not adding movement tracking quality, or that real VR devices have 3d positional tracking too and 3d sound...


But i havent tried any cardboard or rift yet to say the truth. I will get the rift in a couple of months though if nothing cataclismic happens, i will also get a cardboard to see if Palmer has conned me.

I don't think it's a con. I think there is an investment to be protected, and that ultimately for gaming a serious rig will be required. An immersive video playback of a mostly static environment is not going to satisfy the market, in the end.

But as a beginning, getting people to go to the expense of making such video is going to be a whole lot easier if all it takes to view it is cardboard and a phone that people have anyway. As I said, I expect to see visors on the back of cereal boxes...with much poorer lenses than this thing has and a place for tape rather than velcro strap, but pumped out freely to the masses with a "visit Tony the Tiger at Kellogg's dot com" invitation or something similar.

Palmer needs to stress the expanded application rather than superior image quality. But maybe there is more to the Oculus than meets the eye...so to speak. ;)
 
No doubt. I'm gonna go out on a limb though that there is a MUCH bigger market for viewing immersive video than there is for immersive gaming.

<checks limb>

I feel safe.

Key point is that the "fine wine/murky water" comparison is an image quality reference, not an on the fly rendering issue.

Look let's just come right out with it.

As soon as there is VR porn this technology will explode.
 
Augmented reality, like Microsoft's hololens product, has a lot more potential.

Yeah, I can't imagine I'll ever bother getting any VR device, regardless of price.

The release of Occulus at a six hundred dollar price point this early might be a mistake. That price is too much for most consumers, as the article mentions.

I think the price is really a non-story, it's only news because of false expectations. Even if the actual VR hardware were cheap, it's still not going to attach many casual users, and the price isn't high enough (like the hololens) to drive away the mass market, as it exists for VR.

Otherwise agreed.

The price point will be geared towards institutional customers. Augmented reality has a lot more promise in the commercial and educational fields than virtual reality does. Hololens is not an entertainment product for private consumers, at least not yet (it will be eventually). Yes, it has a ways to go, but it has a great deal more potential than virtual reality.

I've applied for a hololens dev kit through my job. Not quite sure what I'm going to do with it if I get one.

Well, the guy who started it may have an investment to protect. The visual quality "from the cardboard thing" is really just a function of the phone you slap in it. I don't really see a computer feeding a device that size with significantly better image quality than my girlfriend's phone, but I suppose it is possible.

Not really much of an investment, his company got bought out by Facebook.

The Oculus PC specs are essentially top end - if you look at graphical capabilities, current top end phones are just matching what top end PCs were doing a decade ago.
 
I don't think it's a con. I think there is an investment to be protected, and that ultimately for gaming a serious rig will be required. An immersive video playback of a mostly static environment is not going to satisfy the market, in the end.

But as a beginning, getting people to go to the expense of making such video is going to be a whole lot easier if all it takes to view it is cardboard and a phone that people have anyway. As I said, I expect to see visors on the back of cereal boxes...with much poorer lenses than this thing has and a place for tape rather than velcro strap, but pumped out freely to the masses with a "visit Tony the Tiger at Kellogg's dot com" invitation or something similar.

Palmer needs to stress the expanded application rather than superior image quality. But maybe there is more to the Oculus than meets the eye...so to speak. ;)
Palmer Luckey is a peculiar guy. After selling Oculus to FB for 2,5 billions $ you will find him at CES in flip-flops and sleeveless T-shirt and posting in reddit. He has his own PR style which includes saying a lot of things in forums and such. Maybe too much. That was the main reason pople got mad with the 600$ price, because he said previuosly that the rift was going to be in the same ballpark as the previous dk2 version, so most people thought of 400$ or so.
 
Look let's just come right out with it.

As soon as there is VR porn this technology will explode.

I am not sure of that, given even VR porn would not be having sex, surely.

TBH i think that VR will be used in rather sinister manner, primarily. There are other issues here as well, given essentially we already live in VR using the program known as human sensing organs..

I don't like that super-mega corps like FB and Google will control it either.
 
VR porn already exists.

59386219.jpg


But I actually don't see much of a difference between porn and vr porn when it comes to how... interesting it is. You can't move freely through a room (at least I don't see a way to make that work), so anything that is filmed in reality is pretty much going to be 3d porn that looks a bit more like you were really there. Which is probably going to get old really quickly.

But I prefer Hentai anyway. And for that I foresee a bright future and endless possibilities. :groucho:
 
I believe VR has a long way become a valid replacement for reallity. Eventually it will, if it finally takes off and become a mainstream tech like internet.

However, right now, that many people is experimenting punctually is a momentaneous state of mind which has been called "presence" which basically happens when our subconcient is totally tricked and believes VR is real. Nobody have been able to describe it acuratelly though, but it is not that we call vulgar "immersion", but something much deeper. It is an intermitent thing usually lasting few seconds, and nobody knows how exactly it is triggered, possibly by a mix of things: low latency, interaction, image, sound, even smells...

The day they make a VR environment where this "presence" is continous VR is going to become dangerous...
 
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