VIVA the revolution

[icemanjsg]

VIVA the revolution

Communism? Has anyone ever tried to *properly* be a communist state in this game like role played the position not tried to win but be a good communist.

Its something I would love to do, however only mao has state property as his favorite civic. And my friend plays as the other Chinese leader.

These civics I find to be most communist are

Government civic
Representation/police state

Legal civic
Bureaucracy/nationhood* bit stuck on this one

Labor system
Whatever one really. Slavery but I rename it “working for the state”

Economic civic
State property (der)

Religious civic
Free religion (der)

I think I am going to start a game as Chinese with Mao Zedong since he is the only leader whose favorite civic is state property.

This is how I was thinking I would play it .Head towards communism the first great engineer I get save him for the Kremlin the Kremlin is a must have! Once I get the tech for state property unfreeze all my workers build more workers and change the majority of my towns into workshops, watermills and farms so my money will plunge however my industry should go up.

Drop my religion (If I have one)

Try and make everyone else change their civics and spread communism

Enter the space race and beat all the capitalist dogs.

Refuse to take part in the UN because it is a stupid liberal experiment started by Harry S. Truman

Occupy smaller races

Like said above has anyone tried this? I am going to try it this afternoon I will post the hilarious results later.

 

[b-dubb]

A state property run empire with workshops instead of cottages is great for endgame or future age games where you don't need research. Great too if you get a tech lead and can whip up massive production, and crank out nothing but troops. HOWEVER if you do build the Kremlin, rush buy costs get so cheap, it's better to keep your cottages and pay for building.

Other 'commie' civics, no comment =p

 

[Moonsinger]

After what they did to Civ3 Conquests, I have a feeling that Firaxis is really into communism. Yes, State Property is really great. I like to run a Demcratic gov with State Property. With the Kremlin, I could easily pay gold to rush everything (except for the Space Ship parts, of course).

 

[TEP]

To be truly communist you should also:

1) Keep 20 years behind in tech

2) Have empty (~no) supermarkets, markets or grocers - and no luxuries

3) Gift any great people you get to the competition

4) Have no religious buildings

5) Purge your entire military in a fit of paranoia

6) ? Anyone?

 

[voek]

Although there is no statereligion, there are most certainly religions in communism. Like the orthodox in Russia.

 

[SupremeC]

TEP, The Soviets were the first to send things orbiting in space if I remember correctly, and I'm sure they have some great people, they were obsessed with proving communism was better, hence the results in International games.

While western history articles do not gush with praise for the communist countries, it does not mean that they were what you make them out to be. Granted, they did not treat their people well, and I would not like to be part of that society, but please try to give fair comments

 

[Boppo]

I would say you need to go with Theocracy for Reigious Civic and no state religion. They do not believe in religion and do not want it spreading in their cities.

 

[Randle]

Although there is no statereligion, there are most certainly religions in communism. Like the orthodox in Russia.

But there really isn't freedom of religion either, so would it be more appropriate to have No state religion and Paganism or Free Religion?

 

[lawren65]

TEP, The Soviets were the first to send things orbiting in space if I remember correctly,

Yes they were strong in science. I think the way to properly role play that would be to centrally plan the science by having your science city consist mostly of science specialists.

In terms or religion, the communist state was against religion (the opiate of the masses) and actively tried to destroy religion. You would need to avoid religion. No state religion, perhaps adopt the civic that stops the spread of religion.

 

[TEP]

TEP, The Soviets were the first to send things orbiting in space if I remember correctly, and I'm sure they have some great people, they were obsessed with proving communism was better, hence the results in International games.

OK, so they got satellites first - they were still beaten to the Apollo program, and they ended up behind in almost every field - possibly excluding, as you point out, "sports medicine".

The part about great people was a hint to people like Solzhenitsyn who were thrown out or managed to escape to the west.

I can see my post should have had a few thrown in - it was meant to be on a light note. Sorry to any commies who took offence.

 

[Viper Daimao]

As a libertarian, I always feel dirty by running state property and building the Kremlin. If only they werent so damned over powered. How does state property have NO maintance? If anything it should be high. Like really high, to balance out how godly that civic is for a big empire. I mean, if the state owns all the land, it has to spend the money for upkeep and development right?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Well actually Free Market is better IF your cities are all well developed (Courthouse, Bank, Marketplace, Grocer, Harbors) since I believe that distance may have something to do with trade route value (so in a large empire even domestic trade routes can be valuable)

And the other bonus for State Property is really only for production oriented strategies.

The issue with State Property is that it gets better on higher difficulty levels (because on lower ones there is a discount for distance maintenance and civic upkeep)

As for building the Kremlin I figure that is not really a 'State Property' thing (after all it benefits Universal Suffrage and Slavery)

 

[Beld]

Caste system could be a fitting civic too.. From each according to his ability, to each according to his deeds.

You'd know best who would be better as a scientist instead of a farmer or mill worker!

 

[Gyspsysmoke]

I run something of a totalitarian state:

State Property+Police State+Slavery+Organized Religion

The totalitarian states of the 20th century did have organized Religion, the religion was the State, the prophet was whatever leader was in charge at the time. There is no way to do this in Civ IV so I just use Confusianism or Taoism or whatever.

I play as Japan and as a warmonger, if the game last long enough to get to this point you will dominate. Banks, grocers, and markets are the true backbone of the empire though so I guess it departs from reality.

 

[thordk]

TEP, The Soviets were the first to send things orbiting in space if I remember correctly, and I'm sure they have some great people, they were obsessed with proving communism was better, hence the results in International games.

While western history articles do not gush with praise for the communist countries, it does not mean that they were what you make them out to be. Granted, they did not treat their people well, and I would not like to be part of that society, but please try to give fair comments

the russians lost the moon race cause they've lost 100 of their leading space project scientists and engineers in an accident due to lowered safety standards.

but i don't think this has anything to do with the state policy. give a hundred brilliant brains the money, resources and microindustry level needed to realise their ideas and every nation would have "won" the space race.

some of the most brilliant mathematicans and physicist came from poland/russia though.

 

[Andrei_V]

Although there is no statereligion, there are most certainly religions in communism. Like the orthodox in Russia.

Oh yeah. The present day communists in Russia tend to convert to Orthodox Christianity, after their leader Gennady Ziuganov. He is a devout Orthodox, goes to church and everything, no more talks about "state property" or things like that, but about "closer relationship" between church and state, in clear violation of the church-state separation principle. I won't be surprised if he becomes soon a Great Prophet.

As for the communism itself, it does look like a religion. Back to the Soviet times, they were talking about morality, chastity, and things like that. If you were about to choose some leading career, like Chairman or Director or a Head of Department, you had to become Communist first. They even had a sort of theology called "Scientific Communism", I used to study it being a university student. Just replace "Lord's Will" by "Historical Necessity", and you can justify the most wicked acts.

 

[SupremeC]

OK, so they got satellites first - they were still beaten to the Apollo program, and they ended up behind in almost every field - possibly excluding, as you point out, "sports medicine".

The part about great people was a hint to people like Solzhenitsyn who were thrown out or managed to escape to the west.

I can see my post should have had a few thrown in - it was meant to be on a light note. Sorry to any commies who took offence.

Ok, first, I wasn't talking about sports science, I was talking about Internationa games as International sports and games. The results in the 1988and 1992 olympics, some of the last before the fall of the iron curtain showed great Soviet dominance, with the USSR leading by far and East Germany doing very well.

I am not trying to say that Communism is the way to go. While they have had great results in the Olympics, I don't think that is any consolation to the starving masses who lived in fear every day. I just felt that we have to be fair, and not just make sweeping statements of the ideologies of others.

And to be honest, I'm a liberal, but comments like that will just discredit us as arrogant bigots.

 

[GoToParaguay]

This is slightly OT, but this is my view on the space race

What has always confused me about this game is that the Space race victory is based on the Apollo program. I have always held the belief that the Soviet Union comprehensively won the space race. They had the first sattelite in space(sputnik), the first living creature (a dog called Laika I think) into space, The first human into space (Yuri Gagarin), the first civilian into space, the first woman into space, the first probe on the moon, and many other achievements. The ONLY thing mentionable that they were beaten to was landing on the moon, in my opinion this does not consitute 'winning' the space race, but the USA country playing up its only considerable success in its space race period.
I also believe that Russia would have been the first on the moon too, had their lead designer not died from botched surgery, and a very large number of the leading Russia space program engineers being killed in a tragic instance when they were experimenting with a new highly volatile fuel.

Who is to say what space achievement constitues winning the space race anyway? If it is based on the largest continuing impact is has had on our lives, surely the Soviet Union is the victor, satellites have had a huge impact on our lives, what benefits has landing on the moon given us?

 

[moggydave]

im not sure if you can call stalinism or maoism communism- both were evil dictators who didnt care at all for their people really, esentailly communism cant be communism unless it's popualr amongst the working classes, it is their revolution right?

look to cuba and venesuala (and now peru) for communist states in our time, its interesting how they are incredibly popular in their own lands (peru's commies actually got in democratically last year) yet they are still villfied by the usa and western media because u.s. companies make so much money exloiting latin american workers,much like in pre-castr era cuba

on civ 4, i certainy think that state property is excelent fo the warmonger and potentially any other player too because i think that if you have lots of prouduction ou can have lots of anything else, once swithching to state property you simply have to quickly build all those markets, banks, supermarkets, grocers, libraries, unis etc

 

[Dueck]

As a libertarian, I always feel dirty by running state property and building the Kremlin.

You're associating "state property" with "totalitarianism". Communist states in Civ 4 are extremely idealistic; in reality, the new leader in the communist state would not be the pragmatic, omniscient, 5000 year-old world leader from the future. The leader would be a power-hungry, selfish, cruel and vicious dictator; any other leader would not come to power, because they would be killed or strong-armed out, first.

Er... sorry, assuming this communism was coming up like in the Russian revolution. I have a feeling if Americans, for some reason, generally wanted a switch to communism, the world history for that government type would be much much different and more successful.


Stalinist Communist state
Police State
Beauracracy
Emancipation (necessarily; an escape from serfdom is what led to communism)
State Property
Free Religion

Utopian Socialist State
Universal Suffrage
Free Speech
Emancipation
State Property
Free Religion