K
knowltok
Guest
Then perhaps the U.S. needs to look at England and other European contries for campaign finance (and non finance) reform.
animepornstar
Deity
i think you must have missunderstood that part. equality under god means that no person is worth more then another.
K
knowltok
Guest
True, but we impose our own limits on this. In the voting arena 17 year olds don't count. Neither do Felons. We also require that you are a citizen. However, I have conceded the point.
I am liking what I am hearing about the British system, but I'd love to hear some backup. I'd also love to hear why crappy ads don't work in The Netherlands.
Perhaps the idea isn't your favorite, but at least its not another China vs. the US.
At least until the sun comes up on that part of the world.
Originally posted by knowltok
Perhaps the idea isn't your favorite, but at least its not another China vs. the US.
Don't take my dislike for your idea as a dislike for you.
You seem like a very decent guy.
I'm just against something that creates more classes in socity. We should all be equal.Hamlet however...is acting like an idiot. Telling me I'm smoking something when he should KNOW I'm a Communist! I mean...it's in my sig!!! And you also don't speak the Moderators like that. Expically the Super-MOD that has banning powers!!!
My ideals have equality in mind. Tell me I'm smoking something illegal.....piffff.....I'm cleaner then he could EVER be. (I don't even use LEGAL drugs).....mutter...mutter...mutter...mumble...mumble.......mumble...mumble.............................mumble.
K
knowltok
Guest
Thanks. I guess I was thinking about the solution from only one angle. I am all for equality, but I am also a big supporter of social resposibility. Rights come with responsibilty, and I fear that many in America, and other parts of the world, have forgotten this. I see a danger in a populace that can be swayed by cheap tricks and money. It might not be quite as fertile a ground for demagogery<sp> as poverty and desperation, but I think the seed could grow in that environment. Especially in this climate of increased fears.
floppa21
Crusty Manhole
Yah whatever CORN! I saw all those corncob pipes in your house... Those are just decoration, right?
Knowltok, I am one of those chumps who didn't vote. I went to vote but was late due to work, damn them.
So I got there and they had closed the lines to the polls? Pissed me off. Anyways, I was planning on voting for Nader just so I wouldn't put my vote into the big 2. I knew it would be a wasted vote because not enough people would vote for anyone other than the big 2 for anyone to up and notice. I should start my own political party and my own religious denomination. Dammit.
Knowltok, I am one of those chumps who didn't vote. I went to vote but was late due to work, damn them.
So I got there and they had closed the lines to the polls? Pissed me off. Anyways, I was planning on voting for Nader just so I wouldn't put my vote into the big 2. I knew it would be a wasted vote because not enough people would vote for anyone other than the big 2 for anyone to up and notice. I should start my own political party and my own religious denomination. Dammit.
K
knowltok
Guest
2 things: First off, your employer can't legally keep you from voting. However if you got off work late enough that the polls were closed you probably could have gone before work.
Second, what about this year's election? not nearly as major, but most places have some issues on the ballet every November (And many at other times too).
I don't view a vote for Nader as a wasted vote. It is a vote towards a future third party. It maybe the Greens, or it may be something else, but more view points would be nice.
As far as starting your own religion, keep in mind that you live in CO, not CA.
Second, what about this year's election? not nearly as major, but most places have some issues on the ballet every November (And many at other times too).
I don't view a vote for Nader as a wasted vote. It is a vote towards a future third party. It maybe the Greens, or it may be something else, but more view points would be nice.
As far as starting your own religion, keep in mind that you live in CO, not CA.
floppa21
Crusty Manhole
Yah I know, I was taking the bus there for almost a month, they even told us we could leave early, I thought I would make it. Technically I was 10 minutes late... 
As for the minor local stuff, I didn't do it.
As for the minor local stuff, I didn't do it.
Hamlet
Manic Depressive
Originally posted by CornMaster
Hamlet however...is acting like an idiot. Telling me I'm smoking something when he should KNOW I'm a Communist! I mean...it's in my sig!!! And you also don't speak the Moderators like that. Expically the Super-MOD that has banning powers!!!
Tell me Mr Corn, have you ever visited the planet Earth?
Also, if you think the aforesaid system is remotely communist, there is something going on in your head that I do not want to be privy to.
:crazyeyes
I said that my proposal to make his system fair would be a communist solution. Not that his system was communist. See....a simple mis-understanding.
Ohwell
Deity
This "Voting" system you speak of is far too capitalistic for me. I propose a Socialistic Democracy, like Canada and other countries, and the rich are taxed MUCH more heavily than the others, though they still have a money advantage. This allows the capitalistic ways to gain power with money to mix with Socialistic ideas of equality. Much of the money gained by the "Rich People Tax" would be used to give money and homes to the poor. This could stimulate the economy alot, by bringing more into the workforce and bringing an even more powerful economy. I think America has a higher income tax rate for the rich, but it has nothing to do with this. The world would gain much from this.
And about true Communism, this is pretty much it, but less evere. The communism you think about was more like facismn than Marxism.
And about true Communism, this is pretty much it, but less evere. The communism you think about was more like facismn than Marxism.
K
knowltok
Guest
The U.S. does tax the rich more than the poor. The income tax is progressive. It works in tiers. The first (don't quote me on numbers) 15,000 is taxed at 10%, the next 25,000 is taxed at 18%, etc. on up to something like 33%. Along the way there are exemptions and credits that are used to help many people. Much of this is credits for children and allowances for various expenses.
There are many other facets including a capital gains tax that is also progressive, but at a lower rate. The idea is to favor investment. There is a deduction that can be made for interest on a mortgage, the rational being to increase home ownership.
There are loophole and shelters that help people avoid certain taxes and lower their rates, but rich people still pay more.
The problems can come if you tax the producers too much and reward those who aren't producing too much. Taxes figure prominently in cost-benefit analysis. Changing them can change the equation. Also, if the government is going to provide everything then what is the motivation to work?
The U.S. can do more for social welfare, but personal responsibility also needs to play a part. Many of the people on welfare are not just down on their luck. They have made irresponsible choices and are not always willing to work harder to make up for those mistakes.
There are many other facets including a capital gains tax that is also progressive, but at a lower rate. The idea is to favor investment. There is a deduction that can be made for interest on a mortgage, the rational being to increase home ownership.
There are loophole and shelters that help people avoid certain taxes and lower their rates, but rich people still pay more.
The problems can come if you tax the producers too much and reward those who aren't producing too much. Taxes figure prominently in cost-benefit analysis. Changing them can change the equation. Also, if the government is going to provide everything then what is the motivation to work?
The U.S. can do more for social welfare, but personal responsibility also needs to play a part. Many of the people on welfare are not just down on their luck. They have made irresponsible choices and are not always willing to work harder to make up for those mistakes.
floppa21
Crusty Manhole
I agree with Knowltok's last paragraph. Too true.
As for taxes, highest tax bracket in USA is 49%, not too many people up there but there are some. I worked on IRS accounts for a year and a half through Mellon Bank.
As for taxes, highest tax bracket in USA is 49%, not too many people up there but there are some. I worked on IRS accounts for a year and a half through Mellon Bank.
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
Okay, I've thought about an idea like this, but I realized it would never work.
I'm going to start graphic arts work as soon as I drop out when I'm 18 and get my GED...
If I'm making $150,000 then, does that mean I only get one vote?
It sounds too aristocratic to work.
I'm going to start graphic arts work as soon as I drop out when I'm 18 and get my GED...
If I'm making $150,000 then, does that mean I only get one vote?
It sounds too aristocratic to work.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
I've been mulling over some quite similar thoughts, also inspired to a small degree by Starship Troopers. The notion that a deadbeat crim (who hasn't been caught yet) has his opinion valued the same as a productive, law abiding member of society irks me.
Care would need to be taken with the education system to ensure its universal access. This would involve making it cheap, or deferred payment. Combined with compulsary voting, a more educated populace would make for, IMO, a better society.
But this is just one of my many nefarious ideas.
Care would need to be taken with the education system to ensure its universal access. This would involve making it cheap, or deferred payment. Combined with compulsary voting, a more educated populace would make for, IMO, a better society.
But this is just one of my many nefarious ideas.
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knowltok
Guest
Mrshape, though I have conceded the system due to probable better solutions and the potential for abuse, you would get 2 votes. The GED would count for the high school diploma. Your case would represent one of the holes in the system. BTW, I hope you are that good, otherwise you may be limiting your future opportunities.
Ebenezer1
Chieftain
Yes, you are right, but only for general elections (for prime minister and government), for referendum the non-vote is guaranteed by constitution
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
If you think voting in Ameirca is bad, try going over to Iran.
In Tehran, they blocked all of the reformist candidates from the ballots.
That would probably explain the 3% voter turnout.
In Tehran, they blocked all of the reformist candidates from the ballots.
That would probably explain the 3% voter turnout.
