Vox Populi: Increase Max City Tiles (buying, annexing, working)

[paul92]

Hello Everyone,

Just installed latest version of Vox Populi, which should be February 2018 (I installed all the features available, with the 43 civ inclusions).

I'm setting up everything for a YNAEMP game with all civs.

I'd like to go tall (single city), but the problem is that even though i searched everywhere, i still don't understand how i can increase the maximum tiles a single city can get with culture (5), the ones that they can buy with gold (3 or 5, don't remember) and the ones that are actually workable (3).

I know i need to use Whoward magic here, but all the posts i managed to find (of him linking to stuff) is either old (2015-2016) or either doesn't seem coherent for what i know (so definitely the former, or i'm missing something).

From my understanding, one of these 3 requests i'm making surely requires Whoward dll. But from what i know, this should be already included in Vox Populi, so that should be fine.
Now the questions still remains, which parameters do i need to change? And where are they located specifically (location file)?

If i understood correctly, i don't need to download anything here, just change 3 parameters that are present in the vox populi bundle.

Can anyone help me here? Or is it there a more updated link that shows how this should be done? The only ones i found are so old that just mention going to Whoward site and download from there, but this shouldn't be the case anymore since they should be included in Vox Populi.
I'm just confused right now, thanks in advance to everyone who can give some more detailed explanations on how to do this.

Kind Regards!

 

[bigcat88]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...from-some-tech-building.621412/#post-14848118

 

[paul92]

Thanks for the answer. This solves one of the 3 things i wanted: Max City working distance, using this parameter: MAXIMUM_WORK_PLOT_DISTANCE (CustomModTables).
Actually, MAYBE it solves that: i see there is a limit of 5 mentioned, that can only be overrided with a specific .dll if i understand correctly. This dll should be already embedded in vox populi, right? So i won't have the limit of 5 in this case?

What about Max City tiles distance (bought with gold, or earned with culture)? Is it there a parameter to increase the default limit of 5 for those 2?

I'd like to try some single city challenge, with max border tiles up to 10, and all of those 10 being able to be worked (with a high enough popolation of course).

Thanks again for your help bigcat88, and also to those who can fill in the other remaining points.

 

[Gazebo]

Do not adjust city distance modifiers like this. Your game will crash, civ cannot support it.

G

 

[paul92]

Do not adjust city distance modifiers like this. Your game will crash, civ cannot support it.

G

Well, with one city challenge only i doubt it would be that heavy on that... I ran 43 civs games on marathon, on huge world map, hundreds of cities total and never got it to crash.
Even if 10 is too much, atleast 7-8 would still be good enough.

 

[Gazebo]

Well, with one city challenge only i doubt it would be that heavy on that... I ran 43 civs games on marathon, on huge world map, hundreds of cities total and never got it to crash.
Even if 10 is too much, atleast 7-8 would still be good enough.

The expansions affect all cities for all players.

G

 

[paul92]

Yeah. But i'm planning to use it moderately not on extreme levels.

I'll find a fine medium to not make it crashes, even if it means i won't be able to play it on 43 civs huge maps then. I just need to know how i could achieve that, and i'll keep your warning as a reminder.

 

[ryanmusante]

Thanks for the answer.

    <!-- Permit cities to work tiles up to MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE - WARNING! Cities take 2.5 times as much memory/file space (v19) -->
    <!-- See also: "Global - City Working Distance" -->

Crashy McCrashville.

 

[paul92]

    <!-- Permit cities to work tiles up to MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE - WARNING! Cities take 2.5 times as much memory/file space (v19) -->
    <!-- See also: "Global - City Working Distance" -->

Crashy McCrashville.

Thanks! Do you know where this would be located? Is it the same place of MAXIMUM_WORK_PLOT_DISTANCE? CustomModTables?

Also is this for acquiring with culture, for gold (buying tile), or for both? And is it there a theoretical limit? Or crash aside, and map size, you could actually go up to acquire 999 tiles?
Thanks for explaining this, helps me a lot!

 

[ryanmusante]

Community patch /core files /core tables/CustomModOptions.xml

 

[paul92]

Ok Thank you!

The command you were talking about is: GLOBAL_CITY_WORKING. If i set this to 1, all tiles that a city own be worked, i suppose.
This doesn't have any limit compared to the 5 limit of MAXIMUM_WORK_PLOT_DISTANCE that is in CustomModTables, right?

So the only thing that i need now, is to find this command here: MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE. Which i suppose allow the city to get over the limit of 5 tiles in expansions.
The problem is that this parameter is not on CustomModTables and not in CustomModOptions. Does anyone know where this would be?

Thanks again for your help guys. I think i can see the light at the end of the tunnel!

 

[paul92]

So just as an update:

This is the settings i'm having right now:

GLOBAL_CITY_WORKING = 1
MAXIMUM_WORK_PLOT_DISTANCE = 6
MAXIMUM_BUY_PLOT_DISTANCE = 6

Still can't expand further than 5 tiles.

I did another try:
I read the 'see also' note that says that you need to download the Whoward mod (Global - City Working Distance). So i downloaded that, made the same adjustements (changed to 6 the paramenters of his mod), enabled the mod.

Still can't expand further than 5 tiles.

I think as of now i'll be able to work all the tiles of my city, the problem is that i still cannot go over the limit of 5. What am i missing here?
Is it because i still can't find MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE? I know where to find it in Vanilla game, but not on Vox Populi.

Anyone know how to solve this riddle?

I know people with Vox Populi managed to play games with higher than 5 tiles per city limit, so i'm sure there is a way.

 

[paul92]

Bump, any help on this? I feel so close yet so far to complete the adjustements and start the game .

Thanks in advance to whoever can help me out on this.

Kind Regards.

 

[Moi Magnus]

Does it work if you just "add it" ? Add a line saying MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE=6 near to the other lines.

 

[paul92]

Yeah i already tried that one. This is my current CustomModTables.xml:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<GameData>
<!-- Determines which options the player has enabled -->
<Table name="CustomModOptions">
<Column name="Name" type="text" primarykey="true"/>
<Column name="Value" type="integer" default="1"/>
<!-- Class - Data=0, BugFix, API, Events, Minor, Common, Major -->
<Column name="Class" type="integer" default="5"/>
<Column name="DbUpdates" type="integer" default="0"/>
</Table>

<!-- Values inserted into CustomModOptions by reference to GameInfoTypes[GameInfo[Table].Type] -->
<Table name="CustomModPostDefines">
<Column name="Name" type="text" primarykey="true"/>
<Column name="Table" type="text"/>
<Column name="Type" type="text"/>
</Table>

<!-- Records database update success -->
<!-- If an entry is expected in here and there isn't one, the corresponding option can't be enabled -->
<Table name="CustomModDbUpdates">
<Column name="Name" type="text" primarykey="true"/>
<Column name="Value" type="integer" default="0"/>
</Table>

<Defines>
<Replace>
<!-- General work tile maximum distance from city centre (default is 3) -->
<!-- Min value is 2, max value is 5 (these are hard-coded in the DLL) -->
<!-- Traits, techs, policies and buildings can increase this value for specific civs and specific cities -->
<Name>MAXIMUM_WORK_PLOT_DISTANCE</Name>
<Value>6</Value>
</Replace>
<Replace>
<!-- General buy tile maximum distance from city centre (default is 3) -->
<!-- Min value is 2, max value is 5 (these are hard-coded in the DLL) -->
<!-- The buy plot distance for a specific city will never be less than the work plot distance for that city -->
<Name>MAXIMUM_BUY_PLOT_DISTANCE</Name>
<Value>6</Value>
</Replace>
<Replace>
<Name>MAXIMUM_ACQUIRE_PLOT_DISTANCE</Name>
<Value>6</Value>
</Replace>
</Defines>
</GameData>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Still no luck... Limited to 5 expansion tiles.
I'm pretty sure now that if i manage to make the expansion go over 5, those will be able to be worked too. I think the issue here is just the "expansion" over 5 tiles.[/Table]

 

[paul92]

Still nothing on my side. Really curious on why it is not working even after all these tries.

 

[Gazebo]

There are hard limits in the DLL you can't go beyond because of memory constraints. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you won't finish a game with these settings due to memory allocation issues. Best to enjoy civ as-is.

G

 

[paul92]

There are hard limits in the DLL you can't go beyond because of memory constraints. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you won't finish a game with these settings due to memory allocation issues. Best to enjoy civ as-is.

G

I know you said this before, but you're judging me without knowing the full picture. I learn by crashing, and i crashed a lot on Civ. Crashing is not the end of the world, and not being just a mod user you can be sure you won't have me whining about vox populi crashing, if that is your fear.
I also probably won't play with the settings you imagine, so i know i've said it already, but please don't worry about that.

About the first part, i thought these hard limits got already changed with Vox Populi dll? (Since it should include Whoward dll modification)
Maybe i got this wrong then?
I saw people around here that managed to go over 5 tiles and it didn't look like they had to change the DLL. Were i mistaken?

Thanks in advance for your help, and please don't you worry about issues that could arise. Sure, do warn me and i appreciate that, but i'm a modder myself and i'm not afraid to crash by changing stuff, nor will i stop modding games. I'm not a regular mod user, and i think by being a modder yourself you understand what i mean.

 

[Gazebo]

I know you said this before, but you're judging me without knowing the full picture. I learn by crashing, and i crashed a lot on Civ. Crashing is not the end of the world, and not being just a mod user you can be sure you won't have me whining about vox populi crashing, if that is your fear.
I also probably won't play with the settings you imagine, so i know i've said it already, but please don't worry about that.

About the first part, i thought these hard limits got already changed with Vox Populi dll? (Since it should include Whoward dll modification)
Maybe i got this wrong then?
I saw people around here that managed to go over 5 tiles and it didn't look like they had to change the DLL. Were i mistaken?

Thanks in advance for your help, and please don't you worry about issues that could arise. Sure, do warn me and i appreciate that, but i'm a modder myself and i'm not afraid to crash by changing stuff, nor will i stop modding games. I'm not a regular mod user, and i think by being a modder yourself you understand what i mean.

Let me put it more simply, then: you are only slightly comfortable enough to mess with XML/SQL to change settings, but you don't trust me - a C++ programmer with intimate knowledge of the DLL - when I tell you that there is no way to get around the memory issues inherent in this attempt? I don't get it. There's nothing to be gained by going beyond the standard tile expansion values except crashing, crashes, and more crash, because the Civ 5 DLL simply can't manage the memory needed. No amount of hacking is going to get around the 32-bit application limitation.

G

 

[paul92]

Let me put it more simply, then: you are only slightly comfortable enough to mess with XML/SQL to change settings, but you don't trust me - a C++ programmer with intimate knowledge of the DLL - when I tell you that there is no way to get around the memory issues inherent in this attempt? I don't get it. There's nothing to be gained by going beyond the standard tile expansion values except crashing, crashes, and more crash, because the Civ 5 DLL simply can't manage the memory needed. No amount of hacking is going to get around the 32-bit application limitation.

G

For civ 5 yeah, i of course do not know where all the settings are in vox populi (a mod that YOU basically are developping now).
If you move in to games i mod, i'd garantee the situation would be reversed. The difference being that i wouldn't stall another fellow modder from messing with stuff because i know better that they could crash.

Do we need to discuss about this crashing situation instead of getting to the point? It's really a waste of time for both of us.
Playing with a maximum of 10 cities total of 6 tiles each is not going to occupy more memories than playing a game with 200+ cities with the classic 5 tiles.

Can we focus on the problem at hands instead of going off topic please? At this point it just look like you do not want to help.
I garantee: i won't jump on you if i crash. You warned about the problem., i understood it, and with the modifications i'm making with the game i won't push it too much. I might still crash? Fine then, i'll work around some more. Don't worry.